Israel could build and run Irans nuclear facilities

[Samildanach]

The only possible solution I can see ot the problem of Iran wanting nuclear power is to let Israel build and run the nuclear facilities for them on their soil. That way Israel gets to monitor the nuclear facilities to ensure no weapons grade material is created and Iran gets their nuclear plants. Neither one will like the idea for the first 50 years but in the long run it may create a little acceptance between them. I know the odds of this happening are next to zero but it is a compromise of sorts. Iran gets the technology they want and Israel gets the security they want. You could also link the EU funding to this deal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4661066.stm

[Nono]

The odds are absolute zero, of course, on grounds of national sovereignty alone.

And anyway, the Iranians do want the nukes, I'm sure.

[Samildanach]

I would not say absolute zero....but if there is anyway of healing the region a small step needs to be taken by someone at some stage. Here I think you are giving Iran two things she needs for development for what is a relatively small compromise.

I think Iran wants the weapons as well however as Iran insists internationally that they don't then they haven't got anything apart from racial hatred to fall back on. The Israelis are on their border anyway. You may as well allow a small group of scientists to work on your reactors and improve them to modern levels. Its a big win for Iran as they would be getting more modern reactor designs plus trained staff to run them. They also have some Israeli hostages if the situation gets nasty. This would also encourage Israel to play by the rules as they want their scientists to be safe and they would be less likely to nuke the region. Its the old give away you daughter to the enemy as a 'wife'hostage' situation they used to face in medieval days. It may be old but it gave very good proof of your peaceful intentions.

[Nono]

Quote by: Sam This would also encourage Israel to play by the rules as they want their scientists to be safe and they would be less likely to nuke the region.

I'd say the chances of the Israelis "nuking the region" are also zero.
They've had nukes for 40 years now. What with '67 and '73, I think they've demonstrated that they don't have an itchy trigger finger. They don't need their own people as hostages (OK, volunteers line up over there!) to make them behave.

[Samildanach]

I'd say the chances of the Israelis "nuking the region" are also zero.

You still going to say that when Iran announces it has nuclear capability?

[Nono]

Yes, of course. What do you think, that the Israelis will thereupon nuke Tehran? Is that what you would do if you ran Israel? No, eh?

[Samildanach]

I wouldn't say its out of the question at all. For fun lets run a hypothetical parallel situation....you have a next door neighbor who is a bit insane and cannot be reasoned with because he thinks your land boundaries are incorrect. He regularly leaves small explosives (firecrackers) on your front porch along with mail saying unless his land boundaries are restored he is going to kill you and won't negotiate on it and occasionally throws small explosives over the fence killing your dog a few times times....you have a mortar in your basement but so far have refrained from using it as you know you would be in serious trouble if you did in an urban area.

One day when looking over the fence you see your neighbor getting a large package from ACME saying mortar shells on it and he waves across the fence to you and with a dead pan face tells you he buying a mortar.

What do you do? :eek:

[RickSp]

Isreal has nukes. Iran wants nukes. If Isreal ever attacks Iran, Iran would like nukes to be able to retaliate.

I wonder why no one is demanding that Isreal disarm? No, that is not true. I know why.

[brien]

Quote by: Samildanach The only possible solution I can see ot the problem of Iran wanting nuclear power is to let Israel build and run the nuclear facilities for them on their soil. That way Israel gets to monitor the nuclear facilities to ensure no weapons grade material is created and Iran gets their nuclear plants. Neither one will like the idea for the first 50 years but in the long run it may create a little acceptance between them. I know the odds of this happening are next to zero but it is a compromise of sorts. Iran gets the technology they want and Israel gets the security they want. You could also link the EU funding to this deal http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mid...st/4661066.stm

This would be almost like Russia inviting the USA to monitor its Nukes and vice versa. It just doesn't work that way.

The Middle East is just going to have to live with an armed Iran. Iranians are more crazy than Israel? Depends upon whose pov you look at this from now, doesn't it? Israel and Iran will just have to sit at the same table and negotiate, won't they? Sure Israel hasn't used its nukes yet, but how does that angle into the argument for Iranian Nuclear capabilities? If I were an Iranian, I sure and hell would want to protect myself from the threat of another nation invading my territory. When was the last time Iran invaded another nation?

Iran will get its nuclear capabilities, one way or another. The UN can try and starve them into submission but that didn't work too well in Iraq now did it? Iran has the oil card and they will trumph it to the fullest. They know it is a powerful card so why not use it?

The only way I can see this playing out is to bring everyone to the table and hammer out a deal amoungst themselves. No US involvement. Let those who are directly affected by Iranian Nuclear capabilities determine the best way to live in peace and respect for each other. Right now all you have are a bunch of hypocrites attempting to determines Iran's future with regard to their nuclear capabilities who all possess the very weapons they wish to deny Iran. Somehow, this sounds a little unfair.

[Samildanach]

I don't disagree with you but the only way its ever going to happen and Israel be happy with it is for Israel to be doing the monitoring of Iranian weapons capability. I also agree the USA should stay out of it along with the EU. It is within the EU and US rights to withdraw grants to Iran if they think Hamas would use them to harm Israel however Iran could negate this worry through allowing Israel to build and run Irans nuclear sites...I know its not a brilliant compromise but it is a compromise which neither Iran or Israel would like but it is a solution to the problem. If you have an alternate solution I am all ears....the only other solution I can see is to speed things up a bit you might as well give hamas a couple of nuclear weapons and have done with it.

[Nono]

Quote by: Sam One day when looking over the fence you see your neighbor getting a large package from ACME saying mortar shells on it and he waves across the fence to you and with a dead pan face tells you he buying a mortar. What do you do?

Yes thank you I did grasp the problem even before your helpful analogy. What I sure as hell wouldn't do is mortar his place what with the whole neighbourhood being lousy with heavily armed creeps, and what with my house being so miniscule.

I'd reason that he's having a long-running spat with his wife and that part of his motivation is to divert her attention from his ugly personality. So I would remind him that his pathetic mortar is nothing compared to that artillery piece in my basement that I've never officially owned up to but that he knows damn well I've got, and that before he can mortar his way through my attic it will have been discharged directly at his house.

Does that answer your question?

[Samildanach]

So you bluster and hope he won't hit you in the middle of the night? Thats your strategy?

[Nono]

Quote by: Rick I wonder why no one is demanding that Isreal disarm?

Perhaps because they've proven over many decades that they exercise responsibility with those weapons.

[Samildanach]

Can't argue with that either. But that maybe because no one else that had Israel obliteration as a primary goal had one.

[brien]

[quote=Samildanach]I don't disagree with you but the only way its ever going to happen and Israel be happy with it is for Israel to be doing the monitoring of Iranian weapons capability. I also agree the USA should stay out of it along with the EU. It is within the EU and US rights to withdraw grants to Iran if they think Hamas would use them to harm Israel however Iran could negate this worry through allowing Israel to build and run Irans nuclear sites...I know its not a brilliant compromise but it is a compromise which neither Iran or Israel would like but it is a solution to the problem. If you have an alternate solution I am all ears....the only other solution I can see is to speed things up a bit you might as well give hamas a couple of nuclear weapons and have done with it.[/QUOTE ]

My solution to the Middle East is for the US to get out and stay out. The US needs to let those parties whose National Interests are at stake to negotiate the settlement. Not hand over anything to anyone.

I think compromise is the key to negotiations. But it has to be compromise based in "real politik", not one nation's or another's idea of compromise. Compromise by definition involves a minimum of 2 parties, as you no doubt know.

I think there needs to be a Middle East Summit with all Middle East nations in attendence. Let them hammer out some kind of Middle East UN organization to which they bring their grievences, monitor their nulcear activity, and settle their problems peaceably. No outside influences involved, just those governments in the Middle East in participation.

[Samildanach]

My solution to the Middle East is for the US to get out and stay out. The US needs to let those parties whose National Interests are at stake to negotiate the settlement. Not hand over anything to anyone. I think compromise is the key to negotiations. But it has to be compromise based in "real politik", not one nation's or another's idea of compromise. Compromise by definition involves a minimum of 2 parties, as you no doubt know. I think there needs to be a Middle East Summit with all Middle East nations in attendence. Let them hammer out some kind of Middle East UN organization to which they bring their grievences, monitor their nulcear activity, and settle their problems peaceably. No outside influences involved, just those governments in the Middle East in participation.

I think they have this....its called OPEC unfortunately it doesn't include Israel...if only Israel had been located on oil rich land there might have been a chance.

[Nono]

Quote by: Sam No one else that had Israel obliteration as a primary goal had one.

I doubt the Israelis really believe that the Iranians would seriously consider using their nukes for that purpose, since they understand too well what would happen to them if they did.

[Samildanach]

I hope so Nono but if you were in their situation would you want to take the risk? I know I wouldn't. As much as I am against pre-emptive strikes in this situation if I was an Israeli I would seriously consider it.

[brien]

Quote by: Samildanach I think they have this....its called OPEC unfortunately it doesn't include Israel...if only Israel had been located on oil rich land there might have been a chance.

Yep... as they say: "them's the breaks". Israel will have to deal with it. And they should do it in a peaceable manner.

[Samildanach]

I just don't see them doing it in a peaceable manner. That implies negotiation and Hamas won't even recognise Israel exists let alone negotiate.