Mercury Poisoned Politics

[Ken Carman]

I considered all forums for this one, and settled on politics. Mods, if you need to move it, please do.

I am going to provide a link to my column Inspection and invite activists on this issue over to Volconvo. It may take a while for it to build momentum. I would love to post the whole column here, but when I tried I was told too long.You can also comment HERE.
During the week I will submit this column several places across the net, both Right and Left. If you know who may be interested, feel free to suggest a site...
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Inspection: For Ryan
by Ken Carman



This special edition of Inspection is dedicated to an under-covered, under-rated, divisive, yet mostly forgotten, topic: endangering our children by injecting them with a mercury-based preservative… Thimerosal.

Do you think your child may be suffering from Mercury poisoning? Click HERE. Interested in learning more about this cause? Click HERE and HERE. Have an opinion? Would you like to join the debate Comment liberaltopia.org, or join us, here, at volconvo.com

Don’t forget to click on the links with the text of the column, they will provide you with a lot more information and expertise than I can, plus support groups.

This week’s Inspection is dedicated to Ryan and all endangered children. They are, if we allow them good health, the next generation. It is written with the hope and a prayer that we haven’t already poisoned the future beyond repair…



“

When I first met Ryan the average listener would have thought that he probably couldn’t speak at all…”

“

What a great playbook for politicians and pharmaceutical companies! They get to maintain profit by playing to both sides of the massive partisan divide in America.”

Parents have been doing what they can to protect their children since the first sentient creature crawled out of the primordial slime. I’m sure my parents did, despite my youth angst over necessary needles being jabbed into my arm about every three months. When I was real young the doctors had to chase me around their chair.

Maybe today’s youth might have been better off if they had run a little faster than I did…

I will start this column out by openly declaring that I am not anti-innoculation. Please, please, please do get your children innoculated. But be very careful, cautious and pro-active about finding out if Thimerosal is in any serum your child gets. There are resources and places to go where you can start to investigate the safety of certain serums, and safe is better than sorry, or unintentionally inflicting autism on a helpless child.

To quote Dan Burton, Republican from Indiana,

“

A few people have tried to portray this… as anti-vaccine. Nothing could be further from the truth. If someone holds hearings on mismanagement at the Department of Education, that doesn’t mean they’re anti-education.”

And, more from the other side of the political spectrum, to quote Thimerosal activist Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., twice…

“I certainly understand the government’s need to reassure parents that vaccinations are safe; the eradication of deadly childhood diseases depends on it.”

But…

“

If, as the evidence suggests, our public-health authorities knowingly allowed the pharmaceutical industry to poison an entire generation of American children, their actions arguably constitute one of the biggest scandals in the annals of American medicine.”

Want to read the rest? Click HERE.

[Scribbler1]

Are you a Don Imus fan? He has been crusading against this stuff for weeks, if not longer.

Mercury in ANYTHING for human consumption is nasty business. Did you know the term "Mad as a Hatter" comes from the effects of Mercury used a long time ago in the manufacture of hats? Since hatters used the metal in their daily jobs the toxic effects on the brain were more evident in that particular profession.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Scribbler1 Are you a Don Imus fan? He has been crusading against this stuff for weeks, if not longer. Mercury in ANYTHING for human consumption is nasty business. Did you know the term "Mad as a Hatter" comes from the effects of Mercury used a long time ago in the manufacture of hats? Since hatters used the metal in their daily jobs the toxic effects on the brain were more evident in that particular profession.

I don't listen to Imus. I'm not even sure if Nashville carries him. I did know about Mad Hatter. I fail to understand how mercury poisoning can logically be recognized almost everywhere when applied topically, but not when mercury-based Thimerosal is injected into small bodies over and over again. Logic has little to do with it. But money? That probably has a lot to do with it.

[PatrickHenry]

The research is variable: I got reamed over this topic last year.

http://www.volconvo.com/forums/thread5451.html

I would say that the vaccines with mercury were not the best idea.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Ken Carman Logic has little to do with it. But money? That probably has a lot to do with it.

That makes sense if the stuff is a preservative. I'm assuming this preservative makes the product last longer so not as much needs to be discarded after a certain time. But MERCURY? We used to play with the stuff when we were kids because the dangers were presumably not as well known, but not now.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Scribbler1 That makes sense if the stuff is a preservative. I'm assuming this preservative makes the product last longer so not as much needs to be discarded after a certain time. But MERCURY? We used to play with the stuff when we were kids because the dangers were presumably not as well known, but not now.

Before putting preservative in vaccines, there were cases where the vaccine went bad due to bacterial contamination and dozens of children died. Vaccine was prepared in batches and could be dangerous without preservatives like thimerosol. These days vaccines are prepared in single unit dosages without thimerosal. This is more expensive but obviously preferable as long as you can afford it.

From everything I have read, most of the claims about thimerosal are irresponsible. Every reputable study has shown no relationship between thimerosal and autism. The most telling indication, at least to me, is that Denmark, which banned thimerosal before the United States, has not seen a decrease in autism in the years following the ban. In fact autism in Denmark has continued to rise long after thimerosal should no longer be a factor.

This hasn't stopped the alarmists and the conspiratorialists from making all sorts of outlandish claims, but that is what they do.

[Keith Hamburger]

Quote by: RickSp Before putting preservative in vaccines, there were cases where the vaccine went bad due to bacterial contamination and dozens of children died. Vaccine was prepared in batches and could be dangerous without preservatives like thimerosol. These days vaccines are prepared in single unit dosages without thimerosal. This is more expensive but obviously preferable as long as you can afford it.

Seems to me that ethanol would work just as well as a "preservative". Actually, what it's being used for is an antiseptic and high percentage ethanol is highly antiseptic. And, in the tiny doses that would be used in a vaccine, you might expect some very small children to get a bit lightheaded, but those doses would not in any way be harmful in the long term.

Seems a bit contrived to me to be using a mercury based antiseptic into the 1990s (and possibly beyond) when there are plenty of readily available, non-toxic antiseptics that could be substituted.

Just doesn't make any sense. (and on that note, I might go have myself a bit of ethanol.)

Keith

[Scribbler1]

NOW I see the controversy. I wasn't very aware of the stuff outside of the complaints from Imus. Getting ready for work and developing medical awareness tend to not happen at the same time.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Keith Hamburger Seems to me that ethanol would work just as well as a "preservative". Actually, what it's being used for is an antiseptic and high percentage ethanol is highly antiseptic. And, in the tiny doses that would be used in a vaccine, you might expect some very small children to get a bit lightheaded, but those doses would not in any way be harmful in the long term. Seems a bit contrived to me to be using a mercury based antiseptic into the 1990s (and possibly beyond) when there are plenty of readily available, non-toxic antiseptics that could be substituted. Just doesn't make any sense. (and on that note, I might go have myself a bit of ethanol.) Keith

I will not claim the expertise to comment on what type of preservative, not antiseptic, that is something else entirely, makes sense for batch vaccines. As in most wealthy Western countries most vaccine is offered in individual batches, the need for preservatives in vaccines has effectively gone away.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: RickSp Before putting preservative in vaccines, there were cases where the vaccine went bad due to bacterial contamination and dozens of children died. Vaccine was prepared in batches and could be dangerous without preservatives like thimerosol. These days vaccines are prepared in single unit dosages without thimerosal. This is more expensive but obviously preferable as long as you can afford it. From everything I have read, most of the claims about thimerosal are irresponsible. Every reputable study has shown no relationship between thimerosal and autism. The most telling indication, at least to me, is that Denmark, which banned thimerosal before the United States, has not seen a decrease in autism in the years following the ban. In fact autism in Denmark has continued to rise long after thimerosal should no longer be a factor. This hasn't stopped the alarmists and the conspiratorialists from making all sorts of outlandish claims, but that is what they do.

"The Danish results were riddled with even more problems than the Swedish ones, however. Even the authors admitted that they 'may have spuriously increased the apparent number of autism cases,' As in Sweden, they had only counted inpatient cases, at least from 1983 to 1994. Then in 1995, for reasons that went unexplained, the researchers began including outpatient cases as well. In that same year, the total number of children reported with autism more than doubled over the year before. from about 40 cases in 1994 to 100 cases in 1993." "' Changes over time in the rates of diagnosis of autism-like dosorders in inpatient versus outpatient settings may have affected the ascertainment of cases,' the authors said, in what Mercury Moms thought was the under-statement of the year." "A second flaw was that prior to 1992, the data did not include cases diagnosed in a busy cinic in Copenhagen, where 20 percent of all Danish cases were diagnosed. By adding in these previously excluded cases, the authors found a spike in rates in 1992, the same year mercury was removed from vaccines."

- From David Kirby's Evidence of Harm

Pg. 271 to 272... and it doesn't stop there. The text previous to that is interesting too.

Now, do I consider that "gospel?"

No.

But does it sound like some rabid conspiracy theorist trying to debunk a study?

Hardly.

The simple claim that all the anti-Thimerosal studies are flawed in comparison is easy to make without specifics. It doesn't mean a hell of a lot except that is the side those who make such claims have taken. Of course the same would be true in reverse.

So do you feel my sister-in-law, brother-in-law and other parents concerned with this issue are merely... "alarmists and... conspiratorialists?" Perhaps you think they care more for conspiracies than they do their children? Painting such horns and tails on those you disagree with would easy, but also meaningless... I would hope you agree.

So far I have seen a lot of those posting retorts using such phraseology. It's easy while debating a topic make claims that everyone who doesn't back up your view on any one subject is an alarmist or a conspiracy theorist. I hope that wasn't your intent.

[Ken Carman]

Before putting preservative in vaccines, there were cases where the vaccine went bad due to bacterial contamination and dozens of children died. Vaccine was prepared in batches and could be dangerous without preservatives like thimerosol.

True. But I don't think most activists are anti-preservative or anti-bacterial agent, they are specifically anti-Thimerosal and insist there are other ways to achieve the same results without using mercury-based Thimerosal.

Now, let me clarify myself. I have no doubt that there may be a few who are against all vaccines who have joined the fray, just like there are those who are industry shills who are more interested in protecting Elli Lilly than children's safety. This was one of my points in the column.

[jennyboys2]

Unfortunately, thimerosal is still present in some vaccines. 75% of this year's Influenza vaccine still contained a full load of mercury. Yes, the same vaccine that the CDC and NIH recommended all pregnant women recieve.

Now, we've seen the "real science" presented that supposededly shows that there is no link between the mercury preservative (thimerosal) and Autism Spectrum Disorders. We know that these studies were paid for and funded by the same drug companies that are responsible for this mess.

Even if some of the funding came from the impartial american taxpayer, the CDC and the NIH seem to be so in bed with the Drug companies that virtually anything that they say must at least be suspect.

An eloquent study was performed using the CDC's own numbers comparing two large sample populations that received the DTaP vaccine. One population received a vaccine with the thimerosal presevative and one vaccine was thimerosal free. This father and son team started out to disprove the link between mercury in the presevative thimerosal and Autism. However, after doing REAL SCIENCE, trying to disprove a hypothesis, they saw that there clearly was a difference in these two sample populations. The group that received the thimerosal containing vaccine had a statistically significant increase risk of developing autism as well as other neurological disorders.

We are not against vaccines. On the contrary~ We believe that they have saved us from a vast array of childhood diseases that have scourged the human race for millenna. But, they need to be given in a responsible manner. The drug companies need to face up to the mistakes they have made instead of hiding being "junk science". And the CDC and the NIH have to admit that they were wrong in 1999 by not calling for a mandatory recall of all mercury containing vaccines. The CDC and the NIH need to abide by the Hippocratic oath to first do no harm.

We saw our child regress after multiple injections of what we now know was a neurotoxin. That is enough for us, and the thousands of other parents like us, to question the use of thimerosal in vaccinations and their implication in neurodevelopemental disorders.

Colleen and Chris Jenny ( Ryan's parents )

[jennyboys2]

We need to know for sure as a nation if this all dates back to someone with a needle who thought they were doing good. ~ Ken Carmen

In the end this is the question..and it is one of the major reasons for all of the smoke and mirrors.. No one wants to admitt this is possible..

CJ

[Ken Carman]

I'm also going to post a link to The Autism Research Institute. :rolleyes: Anyone clicking on that link that claims it has to be some conspiracy site needs to check their attic for aliens who look like squirrels.

[RickSp]

Ken, so now you are posting the same rants to two different threads in the same forum. Why? How long do you think the mods will put up with this crap?

I have no interest in wasting my time here. There is nothing sadder than seeing the parents of autistic children trying to deal with their sorrow and lashing out, trying to find someone to blame. That doesn't change the overwhelming evidence that there is no connection between thimerosal and autism. Of course, I know evidednce won't convince you. It is all a Big Pharama/governmental/political conspiracy. Whatever. You have already claimed that anyone who doesn't side with you is crazy or an idiot or "needs to check their attic for aliens who look like squirrels."

Fine. I don't need the insults. I've had enough with your multiple nonsense threads.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: RickSp Ken, so now you are posting the same rants to two different threads in the same forum. Why? How long do you think the mods will put up with this crap? I have no interest in wasting my time here. There is nothing sadder than seeing the parents of autistic children trying to deal with their sorrow and lashing out, trying to find someone to blame. That doesn't change the overwhelming evidence that there is no connection between thimerosal and autism. Of course, I know evidednce won't convince you. It is all a Big Pharama/governmental/political conspiracy. Whatever. You have already claimed that anyone who doesn't side with you is crazy or an idiot or "needs to check their attic for aliens who look like squirrels." Fine. I don't need the insults. I've had enough with your multiple nonsense threads.

A.The multiple posts had to do with a couple I invited here during a time I didn't know that there were two threads on the same subject. They had requested to be part of the conversation. I posted their first comments on one thread, copied from mine, because of the confusion. Any other posts from them will be by them. I believe I even mentioned the reason why I did that. Did you miss that? I believe I also posted a related link in both places, and you might see that the poster of the other thread and I have been discussing this very topic duplication, during which I admitted I hadn't checked the board for a duplicate topic in the same forum due to a cranky old computer. The more I pull up the more likely it will just dump everything I'm doing and go have a scotch and soda somewhere else in digital land.

Is their story sad? Yes. Are they simply just lashing out? I disagree. I think someone who has studied to be a P.A., graduated and practiced as long as Chris had, is smarter that that. Plus I've known him since he was young enough to crawl under a Christmas tree. Petty is not a defining characteristic. But in the end no one really knows the true motivation of another no matter how much we speculate or rant.

B. Once again... are you just making this stuff up or just reading something into what I said that isn't there? Please quote me where I claimed that anyone who disagreed with me is "crazy or an idiot." In fact I'd love to see if you can find those words. I did accuse you of sticking your words into my computer which, once again, you did in this past posting. ("crazy/idiot") The squirrels in the attic was meant to be mostly a joke, sorry if it offended. But I still believe that anyone claiming the WHOLE site is a conspiracy site is committing a vast over statement... at best.

If you wish to go elsewhere, I understand. I have done that myself at Volconvo. Sometimes it might be the only thing that keeps us all from being shut down by the mods.

[Jonathan]

Jennyboys2,

That Father and son team you refer to are the Geiers.

They compared data bases in a manner that compromises confidentiality. This is a textbook ethical error. Their IRB approval (human rights review board) for this study was revoked and rightly so.
Also, that study was never published in a peer reviewed journal; it was not refereed.

[Jonathan]

The United Kingdom has the same prevalence rate as the US in term of autism. Yet, the only thimerosal containing vaccine they have is the DPT. Even then, not all their kids get that one.

Also, one can always find a motivation for theoretical dishonesty, that does not mean one should.
Otherwise we tend to end up in a game of "my shills are better than yours".

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Jonathan Also, one can always find a motivation for theoretical dishonesty, that does not mean one should. Otherwise we tend to end up in a game of "my shills are better than yours".

You know, although we obviously disagree on this issue, and I have been debating who has the most motivation, I do tend to agree with the above statement.

[Ken Carman]

Posted over at other thread. Posted here JFYI, since these are related topics...

I had asked Colleen, the mother I referred to, if she could find a link to counter the NYT article that seemed, to me, to be rather one sided and biased. I hadn't asked for an article the only supported Chris and Collen's views, and I'm glad that's what I didn't get. The following link is actually fairly "balanced," from my brief review of the whole article. I thought I'd pass it on for comments. A lot of phrases have been tossed around here about "charlatans" and "hacks." If I had to apply the last one to the writers of either, I'd would say it applies much more to the NYT piece.

To read article, click HERE.