Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

**Chris** · Jan 27, 2006, 01:11 pm

OK after much debate I have decided I made the wrong call in moving this to MISC.

Apologies.

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 27, 2006, 01:23 pm

I didnt see your post, Chris until after my last was posted. I thought I was posting in the thread V started on the same topic. Because I was looking in Politics Sector.
Thanks for moving it back.

**Chris** · Jan 27, 2006, 01:25 pm

No worries. I gave you the title cause you started it first.

Mr.Vicchio · Jan 27, 2006, 01:44 pm

I don't mean to be a jerk here, but the subject matter maybe the same start point, Abramoff, but the debates are ENTRIELY different debates.

Gr8 is argueing Bush is crooked, look pics of Bush and Abramoff.

I am argueing the Abramoff issue can be a good start point to getting changes, it's bigger then just a few republicans, entriely different debates.

I would ask you unmerge them, they are different debates.

bishop · Jan 27, 2006, 01:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: dan

If scAlito werent so far to the right (god I hate using that term for something so wrong) I wouldnt adise a filibuster. This appointment will haunt us for decades. O'Connor was a moderate, but also a woman. Alito is a corporate schill, and a bigot who sits on trials he has money riding on.

Doesnt represent me. To say the least.

they're all corporate schills...

i personally don't see him as a bigot, and i don't have a problem with his past rulings on abortion (even though i am pro-life)... i read some of his opinions and they seemed very well reasoned, and based on the law rather than tertiary interests.

anyways, kerry's taken an unnecessary gamble in supporting this filibuster.

gr8fuldaniel · Jan 27, 2006, 02:41 pm

Chris;
This thread is garbage. Several of my responses were deleted. Once you banish a thread to MISC the debate starts deteriorating and you cant fix it by amputating my posts that were legitimate arguments. Just because you are a little squeemish!

May as well just delete the whole forum if you dont agree with somebodys harsh opinions.

Next time dont be so fast to cast debate into Misc.

Let this be a warning to those of you who are opinionated!

**Chris** · Jan 27, 2006, 03:04 pm

Dan,

Who said I disagreed with you in any way RE: Bush? I deleted your posts (they can be recovered if need be) regarding the move of the thread nothing else.

Don't try and claim you are being silenced or opressed because of your opinion. :rolleyes:

Get back to talking about Abramoff and quit with the "I was wronged" chat OK? Any other issues use the PM system.

gr8fuldaniel · Feb 11, 2006, 07:08 pm

First Bush/Abramoff Photo Hits Print

Quote:

Time

First Photo of Bush and Abramoff
White House had initially said there was no record of disgraced lobbyist at 2001 meeting
Posted Saturday, Feb. 11, 2006

Note:
I couldnt post the pic here because its displayed with Flashplayer

Scribbler1 · Feb 11, 2006, 08:12 pm

That proves Abramoff was there, but Bush never denied that. He DID say he shakes hands with a lot of people and doesn't remember every one. I feel Bush is probably lying about not knowing Abramoff but those photos are not really proof that he does.

RickSp · Feb 11, 2006, 08:19 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

That proves Abramoff was there, but Bush never denied that. He DID say he shakes hands with a lot of people and doesn't remember every one. I feel Bush is probably lying about not knowing Abramoff but those photos are not really proof that he does.

What is telling is the amount of denial and backpeddling by the White House realted to the photos. If they had said, "Big deal. There are some photos. Everyone gets a photos with the President," the issue would have gone away in a single news cycle. By going into immediate cover-up mode they prolong their own agony. Odd.

PatrickHenry · Feb 11, 2006, 08:23 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

That proves Abramoff was there, but Bush never denied that. He DID say he shakes hands with a lot of people and doesn't remember every one. I feel Bush is probably lying about not knowing Abramoff but those photos are not really proof that he does.

If Bush moves his mouth, he's lyin'

Garza is Abramoff's CLIENT, it's a small meeting and why are the two of them there with Bush if not for Abramoff's juice?

More "Christian" lies...

Scribbler1 · Feb 11, 2006, 09:03 pm

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

If Bush moves his mouth, he's lyin'

Garza is Abramoff's CLIENT, it's a small meeting and why are the two of them there with Bush if not for Abramoff's juice?

More "Christian" lies...

I was just pointing out that this isn't real proof, although I agree with you. But the right will say, and correctly so, that it shows an itty-bitty head at the back of the room and that's all. No stains on Bush's jacket or anything.

When Mr. Vicchio gets some more kerosene for his laptop I'm sure that's what he'll say too.

gr8fuldaniel · Feb 11, 2006, 09:44 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler1

But the right will say, and correctly so, that it shows an itty-bitty head at the back of the room and that's all. No stains on Bush's jacket or anything.

For Time Magazine to print this I am sure the have the proofs which are blow-up-able. I saw some screenshots that were from the official white house photograpers website, alas they were too small too.
As for it really being Abramoff, I am sure they have a record of the day the Chief was there and that the SS would have documentation of everybody who was in the White House that day. Remember, if they keep records of Homo Prostitutes, they would probly have record of a gangster like Jack _ _ _ _ Off.
I am sure they counted the silverware after he left.

Quote:

When Mr. Vicchio gets some more kerosene for his laptop I'm sure that's what he'll say too.

2 funny, 2 damn funny.

Heres pic #1. More to follow. I wonder if Gannon is in any of them.

gr8fuldaniel · Feb 11, 2006, 10:02 pm

The Chief provided the pic:

Quote:

NY Times

<snip>
By itself, the picture hardly seems worthy of the White House's efforts to keep it out of the public eye. Mr. Abramoff, a leading Republican fund-raiser who pleaded guilty last month to conspiring to corrupt public officials, is little more than a blurry, bearded figure in the background at a gathering of about two dozen people.

But it provides a window, albeit an opaque one, into Mr. Abramoff's efforts to sell himself to Indian tribes as a man of influence who could open the most secure doors in Washington to them. And it leaves unanswered questions about how Mr. Abramoff and the tribal leader, whom he was trying to sign as a client, gained access to a meeting with the president on the White House grounds that was ostensibly for a group of state legislators who were supporting Mr. Bush's 2001 tax cut plan.

The White House confirmed the authenticity of the photograph. It was provided to The New York Times by the Indian chief, Raul Garza of the Kickapoo tribe of southwest Texas. Mr. Garza, who is under indictment on federal charges of embezzling money from his tribe, said he was eager to demonstrate that he had "nothing to hide" in his dealings with the White House and Mr. Abramoff.

A lawyer for Mr. Garza said Mr. Abramoff arranged for the chief to attend the meeting, in a conference room in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building adjacent to the White House. The meeting took place at a time when the lobbyist was seeking a contract to represent the 800-member tribe and its casino, which was producing hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in revenue. Mr. Abramoff never got the contract.

Compugasm · Feb 11, 2006, 10:29 pm

So who's the bearded guy in the background?

gr8fuldaniel · Feb 11, 2006, 10:37 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Compugasm

So who's the bearded guy in the background?

That would be an old bidness pardner of Junior. He bailed bush out of jams many times.

Scribbler1 · Feb 11, 2006, 11:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel

For Time Magazine to print this I am sure the have the proofs which are blow-up-able. I saw some screenshots that were from the official white house photograpers website, alas they were too small too.
As for it really being Abramoff, I am sure they have a record of the day the Chief was there and that the SS would have documentation of everybody who was in the White House that day. Remember, if they keep records of Homo Prostitutes, they would probly have record of a gangster like Jack _ _ _ _ Off

I have no problem believing it is Abramoff. In fact, to me it DOES look like him regardless of picture quality. I think there's another shoe left to drop regarding if Bush knows the guy personally or not. I can't help but remember all the descriptions of Bush as a person, with his photographic memory for names and chummy, outgoing nature. If Abramoff was simply in the room what would surprise me would be that Bush really didn't know the guy.

And I love that PS of OBL.

gr8fuldaniel · Feb 11, 2006, 11:56 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Scribbler

And I love that PS of OBL

I wish I could do that. I have been trying to PS a bomb into bushes cowboy hat. But, I dont have PhotoShop.....I have Corel Draw....Corel Photo-Paint and Microsoft Image Composer. I cant find simple directions for a "montage" anywhere. I think thats what its called.

Compugasm · Feb 12, 2006, 12:50 am

I used Paint Shop Pro 7. Much cheaper than Photoshop.

Scribbler1 · Feb 12, 2006, 01:14 am

Heres a few good ones

http://www.uiowa.edu/policult/bush/

Jan 27, 2006, 01:11 pm	#41 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,355	OK after much debate I have decided I made the wrong call in moving this to MISC. Apologies. I'm voting against the theocratic psychopaths Shared

Jan 27, 2006, 01:23 pm	#42 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	I didnt see your post, Chris until after my last was posted. I thought I was posting in the thread V started on the same topic. Because I was looking in Politics Sector. Thanks for moving it back. ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jan 27, 2006, 01:25 pm	#43 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,355	No worries. I gave you the title cause you started it first. I'm voting against the theocratic psychopaths Shared

Jan 27, 2006, 01:44 pm	#44 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	I don't mean to be a jerk here, but the subject matter maybe the same start point, Abramoff, but the debates are ENTRIELY different debates. Gr8 is argueing Bush is crooked, look pics of Bush and Abramoff. I am argueing the Abramoff issue can be a good start point to getting changes, it's bigger then just a few republicans, entriely different debates. I would ask you unmerge them, they are different debates. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jan 27, 2006, 02:41 pm	#46 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	Chris; This thread is garbage. Several of my responses were deleted. Once you banish a thread to MISC the debate starts deteriorating and you cant fix it by amputating my posts that were legitimate arguments. Just because you are a little squeemish! May as well just delete the whole forum if you dont agree with somebodys harsh opinions. Next time dont be so fast to cast debate into Misc. Let this be a warning to those of you who are opinionated! ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

Jan 27, 2006, 03:04 pm	#47 (permalink) (top)
Chris Gamma-ray burst Location: Nashville Posts: 6,355	Dan, Who said I disagreed with you in any way RE: Bush? I deleted your posts (they can be recovered if need be) regarding the move of the thread nothing else. Don't try and claim you are being silenced or opressed because of your opinion. :rolleyes: Get back to talking about Abramoff and quit with the "I was wronged" chat OK? Any other issues use the PM system. I'm voting against the theocratic psychopaths Shared

Feb 11, 2006, 08:12 pm	#49 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	That proves Abramoff was there, but Bush never denied that. He DID say he shakes hands with a lot of people and doesn't remember every one. I feel Bush is probably lying about not knowing Abramoff but those photos are not really proof that he does.

Feb 11, 2006, 10:29 pm	#55 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,780	So who's the bearded guy in the background? Death to Videodrome! Long live The New flesh!

Feb 12, 2006, 12:50 am	#59 (permalink) (top)
Compugasm Son of X51 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,780	I used Paint Shop Pro 7. Much cheaper than Photoshop. Death to Videodrome! Long live The New flesh!

Feb 12, 2006, 01:14 am	#60 (permalink) (top)
Scribbler1 Skeptical Patriot Posts: 7,746	Heres a few good ones http://www.uiowa.edu/policult/bush/