Outsourcing Torture and Slap on the Wrist

[RickSp]

Three stories in the news tell the same tale from slightly different perspectives:

Report accuses US of 'outsourcing' torture

An investigation into alleged CIA secret prisons in Europe reported today that there was evidence that the United States was relying on other countries to torture terror suspects - and it was highly likely that European governments knew of it.

Of course sometimes torture is best done by US personnel. Nice to know that if you beat a prisoner to death you will be only reprimanded.

Army Interrogator Reprimanded in Iraqi's Death

A military jury in Colorado issued a reprimand last night to an Army interrogator who was convicted of negligent homicide for using an aggressive technique on an Iraqi general who died during questioning. Jurors decided not to impose any prison sentence for what originally was charged as a murder.

And those who give the orders refuse to talk.

General in Prisoner Abuse Case Declines to Testify Further

Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller, the former commander at the detention center at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, who also helped set up the interrogation operation at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, is declining to testify further about harsh interrogation practices and will retire from the service, Army officials said Thursday.

Maybe we should take the "liberty and justice for all" bit out of the pledge.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: RickSp Maybe we should take the "liberty and justice for all" bit out of the pledge.

Yeah, but leave "under God" in there, OK? :rolleyes:


What can we add to this, it's chilling. I also contend that is is evidence that the responsibility for this crap goes right to the top, unlike some people would tell you.


*The italics indicate the thoughts of people like Vicchio, who say that Abu Gharib was an isolated incident, and that the resposibility for such matters are strictly local.

[thatoneguy00]

milton explain to me how this was not a local responsibility?

[Milton Bradley]

If the diectives come from the top (and there is a pile of information that should incline one to think that way) then the responsibility lies with the person giving the order.


Think about this.


How much time elapsed after the first allegations of torture until we heard representatives of the Bush administration declare "torture does not apply to non-States, and therefore terrorists are not subject to the same respect given to signers of the Geneva Convention"?


Too convenient that they had that argument in the brief case to be stumbled upon at the appropriate time.

[thatoneguy00]

ok in all fairness, why did they say that? because they knew everyone was going to say hey its the presidents fault. I have a hard time believing that bush controls me and you, we act on our own just as did the gaurds at that prison

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: thatoneguy00 ok in all fairness, why did they say that? because they knew everyone was going to say hey its the presidents fault. I have a hard time believing that bush controls me and you, we act on our own just as did the gaurds at that prison

Uh, the Commander, and Chief does control the military, and it's policies.


Military personal are property of the U.S. government, and are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, not the constitution. Soldiers do what they are told unless they are prepared to win court battles, or go to prison, and break big rocks into little rocks.

[Apeman81]

Quote by: RickSp Three stories in the news tell the same tale from slightly different perspectives: Report accuses US of 'outsourcing' torture Of course sometimes torture is best done by US personnel. Nice to know that if you beat a prisoner to death you will be only reprimanded. Army Interrogator Reprimanded in Iraqi's Death And those who give the orders refuse to talk. General in Prisoner Abuse Case Declines to Testify Further Maybe we should take the "liberty and justice for all" bit out of the pledge.

Just as soon as all pledge fealty to our flag, that is.

No heads carved off their screaming bodies yet.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Apeman81 No heads carved off their screaming bodies yet.

No heading cutting, just brutal beating to death. A distinction without a difference as far as I am concerned.

[thatoneguy00]

Milton, ok let me get this right. Let me give you a scenario. WHere I work there are rules. No porn on the computer is one of them so lets say I do it anyway when my boss is not here. and a customer finds out about it. Was I acting by my own discretion or is it automatically my boss's fault

[Apeman81]

Quote by: RickSp No heading cutting, just brutal beating to death. A distinction without a difference as far as I am concerned.

Which link had the story of a brutal beating?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Apeman81 Which link had the story of a brutal beating?

Here is a good summary:

Previously secret court testimony indicates that an Iraqi general imprisoned by U.S. forces was badly bruised and may have been severely beaten two days before he died of suffocation during interrogation. References to the alleged beating appear in a transcript, released under court order, from a preliminary military hearing for three soldiers charged with murder and dereliction of duty in the death of Maj. Gen. Abed Mowhoush on Nov. 26, 2003. A fourth soldier faces the same charges but waived a hearing. During the interrogation, Army prosecutors said, Mowhoush was put headfirst into a sleeping bag, wrapped with electrical cord and knocked down before the soldiers sat and stood on him. The cause of death was determined to be suffocation.

Beating of Iraqi General Alleged in Army Hearing

He was beaten for days then suffocated.

To the Army this warrants only a reprimand. The phrase "getting away with murder" comes to mind.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: thatoneguy00 Milton, ok let me get this right. Let me give you a scenario. WHere I work there are rules. No porn on the computer is one of them so lets say I do it anyway when my boss is not here. and a customer finds out about it. Was I acting by my own discretion or is it automatically my boss's fault

I'm not saying that couldn't happen, but I really doubt it after all of Bush's words, and maneuvering. You have heard the administrations position on rendition, correct? Abu Gharib is really nothing more than rendition caught by the cameras, and the NeoCons approve. Whats to argue here except your position?


Ultimately, the boss is responsible for your transgression in the above scenario.


Would you be surprised to be reprimaneded, or fired for such actions?


Nevermind, why change the topic arguing semantics, and anaologies.