Deals with the devil

[RickSp]

Deals with the devil

One of the sad byproducts of the Bush administration's so-called war on terror is how torture and abuse of human rights has become official U.S. policy. Human Rights Watch released its annual report on global human rights abuse this week. The group has accused the United States and its allies of working to undermine international protections against torture as part of the fight against terrorism. "Fighting terrorism is central to the human rights cause," said Human Rights Watch Executive Director Kenneth Roth. "But using illegal tactics against alleged terrorists is both wrong and counterproductive." Roth said the illegal tactics fuel resentment and, as we've seen in Iraq, act as a recruiting tool for terrorist groups. But it's more than just the acts and policies of the United States at issue. When this nation chooses to ignore human rights, it makes it easier for other nations to do the same. Take the particularly noxious example of Uzbekistan, a former Soviet republic in Central Asia with a reputation for having one of the most totalitarian regimes in the world. Because of the combination of Uzbekistan's proximity to Afghanistan and its huge reserves of natural gas, the United States chose to overlook what the United Nations called "widespread and systemic" torture. But here's the kicker. The U.S. gave Karimov all that money in hopes of getting access to Uzbek natural gas. But Karimov instead cut an even better deal with the Russian government. Karimov then booted out the Americans. Dictators, after all, don't play by the same rules as others. This is how the war on terror is being waged. The Bush administration defies international law and enters into alliances with some of the most unsavory regimes in the world, yet claims it is spreading freedom and democracy and that it respects human rights. This hypocrisy cannot be allowed to continue.

In the 1950 and 60s, after helping to overthrow the elected government, the CIA helped train the Savak, the Shah of Iran's secret police, in torture. In the 1980s, the US envoy Rumsfeld and others assisted Saddam with military aid and intel and the US vetoed United Nations moves to condemn Iraq for using chemical weapons. In the 2003 while self righteously talking about democracy and liberation, the US paid Uzbekistan, a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world, over $1 billion for basing rights and as an inducement to allow US exploration for natural gas. Of course the Uzbeks still kicked us out.

I can't help but wonder how long we will continue to make deals with dictators and despots for short term gains, that always seem to backfire and leave us in worse shape than when we started. How long will we make deals with the devil?

[PatrickHenry]

The US is the devil, Rick. The honorable republic we were taught about in school is long gone, if it ever existed.

The foreign policy establishment in Washington has an agenda that is very narrow and is certainly NOT concerned with democracy and human rights. Hint: it's a five-letter word starting with "M"...

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: PatrickHenry The US is the devil, Rick. The honorable republic we were taught about in school is long gone, if it ever existed. The foreign policy establishment in Washington has an agenda that is very narrow and is certainly NOT concerned with democracy and human rights. Hint: it's a five-letter word starting with "M"...

Amen to that.


What Volconvo really needs is access to a digitized library of past newspaper articles. Imagine the links one could provide if we had access to some of the old print media that sits in the landfills decomposing.

Quote by: RickSp I can't help but wonder how long we will continue to make deals with dictators and despots for short term gains, that always seem to backfire and leave us in worse shape than when we started. How long will we make deals with the devil?

As long as they can cover their tracks, and get away with it.


It's the perfect recuitment pool for State Department created spooks. Despots that get special recognition as having great potential to be the next State Department created international spook usually include, but are not limited to...

1) Having siezed power. ( The State Department, and Bush both know what type of cabinet makes for political expediency, and what is required to keep the truth carefully hidden behind the "official story".) If you have already constructed your puppet government, then all we need to do is provide the script.

2) A hermetically sealed press that is far enough removed from our "official story" as to be easily marginalized by the press, and lapdogs like Tony Blair with a little lip service. The American public just needs to be reminded of what bad guys live on the planet, and how evil some of their plans are for them in their quest for world domination. (Since we are guilty of creating our own reality with the press, its not too difficult to find countries where the "truths" don't always agree.)

3) Obviously, the drug connection, because thats what this is all about, covert drug cultivation, transportation, and sales to create money for thier illegal, extra-constitutional government programs. Afghanistan, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Panama, El Salvador, Columbia, Grenada, what do all of these places have in common?


Certainly, I mean to imply that if foreign leaders want to make a deal with the Devil, a "Devil" certainly exists in the political realm, and Patrick nailed His identity in the first response to the thread.


I guess the real question should be "why do so many come to the "crossroads" seeking that deal?


Is it pressure from our government to get in line, and present our "official story"?


That has always been my belief. Can't have competing histories out there conflicting with each other, right?

[brien]

Quote by: RickSp Deals with the devil In the 1950 and 60s, after helping to overthrow the elected government, the CIA helped train the Savak, the Shah of Iran's secret police, in torture. In the 1980s, the US envoy Rumsfeld and others assisted Saddam with military aid and intel and the US vetoed United Nations moves to condemn Iraq for using chemical weapons. In the 2003 while self righteously talking about democracy and liberation, the US paid Uzbekistan, a country with one of the worst human rights records in the world, over $1 billion for basing rights and as an inducement to allow US exploration for natural gas. Of course the Uzbeks still kicked us out. I can't help but wonder how long we will continue to make deals with dictators and despots for short term gains, that always seem to backfire and leave us in worse shape than when we started. How long will we make deals with the devil?

The sooner America pulls all of it military and foreign spies(CIA), and foreign aid, back to the US and concentrates on the domestic problems of the US, the better off the US will be because it can begin to rebuild America and lead by example rather than by the force.

The one billion that the US mistakenly paid Uzbekistan would have fed many, many hungry babies here in the US. That one billion would have gone a long way in paying down the record deficits. That one billion would have gone a long way to bring medicine to children in Appalachia. That one billion of TAXAPYERS money could have been returned to the those who paid it so that they could better determine which charity to give it to in America. Taxpayers could have used that money to invest in Governement Bonds so that the infastructure of the inner cities could be rebuilt resulting in better living conditions for those who reside there. That one billion could be invested in Transportation Bonds that could restore mass transit in cities that the eliminated street cars decades ago in favor of automobiles that can no longer even find parking spaces!

Now visualize this one billion multiplied many, many times over, and just for one moment, think about what the US could acheive to make America a better place to live for ALL of its citizens.

Uzbekistan, indeed. :rolleyes:

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture here.

[Osborn F Enready]

Rick said:
How long will we make deals with the devil?

I say:
Until we hold accountable those who stand in office. As long as it is one of the two major corrupt parties holding the seats, there will be many more deals, and no hopes of accountability.

How could one side make an effective argument against the other for acountability when both sides are equally guilty?

[RickSp]

Quote by: brien Uzbekistan, indeed. :rolleyes:

Uzbekistan tells the real tale. After the lies about WMD and AlQaeda ties to Iraq were exposed, Bush shifted to rhetoric justifying the invasion of Iraq based on bringing "liberty and democracy" to an oppressed people. At the same time he was paying off a despot as evil as Saddam ever was. "Liberty and democracy" indeed.

[brien]

Quote by: RickSp Uzbekistan tells the real tale. After the lies about WMD and AlQaeda ties to Iraq were exposed, Bush shifted to rhetoric justifying the invasion of Iraq based on bringing "liberty and democracy" to an oppressed people. At the same time he was paying off a despot as evil as Saddam ever was. "Liberty and democracy" indeed.

And this is exactly why we need to do what I have suggested in my previous post.