World War III

[Athena]

Several years ago, one of my pyschology professors told the class the greatest threat to the world was Israel and Palestine and surrounding countries. At the time I knew nothing of what was going on there and had no reason to care. I think we can agree, 9/11 and the war in Iraq has given us reason to care what is going on.

Well before talk of terrorism, when the worst thing Palestinians were doing was throwing stones, I met a couple of Palestinians through a discussion group, and since have been firmly been against Zionism. Please note, I am no more against Jews than I am against Christians and Muslims, I wish they all would keep their religion out of politics, and stop imposing their religion on others. Bringing the world to a devastating war, because this is what an ancient book leads people to believe will happen, is about stupid, and I did not have children to fight holy wars.

I think it is very important to use the word "Zionism" to clarify the objection is political opposion to to Israel, not religious based Christian or Muslim opposion Jews. Using my tax dollars to support and arm Israel is not okay with me. Blindly moving in the direction of war and thinking the young in my family will fight these wars, or otherwise support them, (slashing domestic budgets, stealing from Social Security and depriving people of medical needs) is not okay with me. Oil countries are arming themselves and when the oil is gone, they will not peacefully return to herding cattle, and a life style devoid of all the things oil money buys today. Sooner or later there will be violent conflict unless past and future problems are resolved.

It is my aim to present the Palestinian side of the conflict. Do with it what you will.

[Athena]

The continued US financial aide of three billion dollars a year for the last 53 years at tax payers cost, other than the military sophisticated equipment, had successfully maintained the existence of this Illegal Zionist Colonizing Regime in the heart of the Arab World. Such unjust and blind US support and the dormant Europe, had caused deep agony and disappointment to the Palestinians and all Arab (Moslems & Christians) alike, who had great admiration and confidence in the American and European democracies and Justice!
It has become quite clear that the Palestinians have used all means to achieve peace and live side by side with the created State of Israel, but so far failed because the Israelis are rejecting all peace initiatives and refusing Peaceful coexistence. Therefore before any peace negotiations, or the New Road Map theory, the Israeli Rulers and there Military occupying force must meet the following conditions: -
1. Complete withdrawal of all IDF forces and its administration from all Palestinian and Arab Land occupied in 1967 including Jerusalem.
2. The implementation of UN resolution 194 giving the Palestinians the right to return to their land and properties, and/or compensate who do not wish to return. This item could be implemented by returning ALL Jews who migrated from different countries to Palestine since 1948 onwards, including Arab Jews to their countries of origin.
3. Lift all blockades and restrictions on the Palestinian people in every respect and tear down the electrified security Wall being constructed, without any real security to the Israeli citizens.
4. Compensate the Palestinian and Arab people for the damages and exploitation of their properties during all the years of occupation starting from 1948.
5. Evacuate all Colonies from its inhabitants and hand over the structures to the PA.
6. Stop interfering in Christian and Moslem Religious Affairs and stay away from their Holy Shrines in Jerusalem and elsewhere, and stop demolishing houses and properties, and free all political and freedom fighters from Jewish prisons
7. Deploy UN Forces on the 1967 borderline for security reasons and safety of all citizens.

[Athena]

"Escalation" or "Retaliation": Israeli Attacks on Palestinians
The Politics of Language
By JAMES PETRAS

It is commonplace to read each day in newspapers such as the Financial
Times, New York Times, London Times and Washington Post of Israeli
"retaliation". The reportage frequently mentions the fetaliation as following a Palestinian attack on an Israeli colonial settlement in the West Bank or urban population center in Israel. The action and reaction always is located in a limited time frame. Palestinian action is always
the initial moment and the Israeli military attack is always described as a response or "retaliatory" and therefore, presumably a form of defensive action, "justifiable".

Thus what appears as objective reportage on two sets of military actions, is in fact an arbitrary selection of time frames which lays the basis for a highly biased interpretive framework. The pro-Israeli tilt, evident in the chosen time sequence, and the framework, are derived from the general ideological argument which portrays Israel as a democracy, defending itself from Arab-Muslim terrorists and not an expansionist colonial power engaged in violent ethnic cleansing and large-scale long-term forced
population expulsion.

What is absent from the reportage in such "news" accounts is the sequence of events preceding the Palestinian attacks. Here we are likely to find a series of Israeli military incursions, bombings and killing of non-combatants, summary executions of political prisoners, as well as
arbitrary arrests, home demolitions and illegal (even by colonial standards) land seizures.

[Jack]

As to your topic title, I think WWlll might not be the major event the first two were. I see an increase in regional disputes over boundries and land progressing until every nation on the planet is at war with at least one other nation. The whole world at war.
We aren't that far from that now.

[shield772]

I feel we should not be involved in the affairs of Isreal and Palestine, I advocate stopping ALL foreign aid and the extreme reduction of US Military Forces abroad as well as other domestic cut backs, the conflict between Isreal and Palestine/Arabs is thousands of years old and gets us nothing but trouble by involving ourselves. But I would not advocate or support

1. Complete withdrawal of all IDF forces and its administration from all Palestinian and Arab Land occupied in 1967 including Jerusalem. 2. The implementation of UN resolution 194 giving the Palestinians the right to return to their land and properties, and/or compensate who do not wish to return. This item could be implemented by returning ALL Jews who migrated from different countries to Palestine since 1948 onwards, including Arab Jews to their countries of origin. 3. Lift all blockades and restrictions on the Palestinian people in every respect and tear down the electrified security Wall being constructed, without any real security to the Israeli citizens. 4. Compensate the Palestinian and Arab people for the damages and exploitation of their properties during all the years of occupation starting from 1948. 5. Evacuate all Colonies from its inhabitants and hand over the structures to the PA. 6. Stop interfering in Christian and Moslem Religious Affairs and stay away from their Holy Shrines in Jerusalem and elsewhere, and stop demolishing houses and properties, and free all political and freedom fighters from Jewish prisons 7. Deploy UN Forces on the 1967 borderline for security reasons and safety of all citizens.

More US involvement in the region, who do you think the UN peacekeepers would be?

[Athena]

Quote by: Isherwood As to your topic title, I think WWlll might not be the major event the first two were. I see an increase in regional disputes over boundries and land progressing until every nation on the planet is at war with at least one other nation. The whole world at war. We aren't that far from that now.

Yeah, you may be right. Russia disrupted delivery of gas to the Ukraine, in an apparent attempt to control politics in Ukraine. Ukraine had a contract with Russia that fixed the price until 2009 and yet Russia has raised the price 4 times, so the Ukrainians had a legal beef with Russia.

More important is the importance to Russia of being known as a reliable supply of gas. Its relationship with the world rest on this. It supplies West Europe with gas, and the gas line for that goes through the Ukraine. When it cut off gas to Ukraine, the line to West Europe was vulnerable. The importance of this Russian supply of gas to west Europe is high, and it is finite. Where is this world headed? We are building on a finite source of energy, and international relationships rest precariously on the ability to maintain the supply of something that is finite.

I am watching a show about Reagan now and the concern that a nuclear war could end civilization as we know it. The end of gas and oil, will also mean the end of civilization as we know it, and I don't think we have a grip on that reality, and how weapons will be used in a fight over the last remaining resources.

On the other hand we are slowly accepting what happens to the rest of the rest of the world effects us. We might be able to protect ourselves from bird flu if we have immediate knowledge of where it arises and we can respond fast enough. Environmental destruction any where in the world impacts us as, threatening our supply of fish, or conditions of global warming, or conditions of war, or shortages of fuel.We can not be isolationist.

Likewise, I do not think we are wise to ignore the Palestinians and those who agree with their side. If we are great people, we must meet the great the challenge that faces the world. It can no longer be as it was in the past. We must embrace humantarian standards that apply to everyone in the world. We will either have to share fairly with the whole world, or war as humans have historical done, and war is not a good choice.