What is Freedom?

[Anarchist Patriot]

Some time back, I wrote about a terrible experience I had with my local city government. My ex, probibly out of anger over me not giving her the house after our divorce (and why the hell should I give it to her since she is the one who wanted out in the first place) reported me to the city building department. I was reported for having an illegal appartment in the basement (which my ex built, with the help of some of her man friends). Well I fought the city for over a year in court and ended up nearly bankrupt and angry as hell.

Well lately I have been thinking about a lot of things. I heard an ad on the radio for the US Navy about how its important to serve the country in able to maintain our freedom. I have talked to a lot of people lately and really have thought about how free people in the United States really are in contrast to the rest of the world. I came up with a list of pros and cons regarding life in these United States:

Pros:
1) Taxes in the US are somewhat lower than in other countries such as Canada, Australia or in much of Europe, though much less than Saudi Arabia which has no income tax.
2) Streets are safer than most developing countries like Mexico or the Phillipenes.
3) Unemployment is relatively low.
4) There is no compulsorary Millitary Service as there is in Russia, all of continental europe (that is all of europe except for Britain and Ireland), China, Korea, Japan, Isreal, all of the Middle East and Mexico
5) Easy access to higher education. Anyone who can afford to attend a college or university or trade school can do so. This ensures social mobility for most people.
6) A justice system where people are innocent until proven guilty. Better than where the opposite is true (like in Mexico).

Cons:
1) No public healthcare. If you are not insured you can go to hell.
2) More crime than nations of Europe, Canada, Japan, Australia and New Zeland.
3) Brutal prison system. Death penalty.
4) Large and growing gap between the rich and poor.
5) Racism
6) Except for Las Vegas, all bars close at 1 am on weekdays and 2 am other times. Cant drink beer in public places (as you can in europe), in some places you cant buy licquor on Sundays.
7) No public nudity on beaches, in city parks or even in your own back yard.
8) Harsh, repressive drug laws. Current laws allow cops to steal your car, even if you are just suspected of something.
9) Stupid, paternalistic sex laws. Prostitution illegal. Anti Homosexual biases in many regions of the country.

Honestly, I think most of the people who harp on how free the US is are people who do not travel very much, at least not to countries where there is more freedom. Sure, the US has more freedoms that in, say, the People's Republic of China or Saudi Arabia but how about in compare to Sweden or Denmark?

Now how does that pertain to myself? Well I dont feel free when:
1) I go to a bar after working late and its closed.
2) I see on TV how free people in Scandanavia sunbathe publiclly in the nude and I cant even go in my underware to a public park.
3) I read in the paper how the cops bust some guy for smoking a dubie and he goes off to prison and gets butt raped.
4) When I see a cop car and it reads on the back "this vehicle was purchased from funds confiscated from drug offenders".
5) When I am afraid to even check out some web site because I am afraid the cops will know I went there and bust me.
6) I am socked with a huge bill for my daughters' medical treatment and the worthless PPO, which I pay for with my own money, refuses to pay for it.
7) I go downtown and see homeless people begging for change. Many of these people were veterines, some of them had jobs and they found that there is no place for them in the "new economy".
8) I turn on the TV news or read in a mainstream newspaper and cannot hear anything but more propaganda about the President and his little war.

[PatrickHenry]

What's yer point? Just lettin' off some steam?

[Osborn F Enready]

Alec, you really seem to cling to the "if you don't like it, leave" mentality. I have seen it in a couple posts now. Do you understand what our country is based on? Do you understand the concept of equality of all men in the eyes of the law, and liberty and justice for all?

Why were you asking him to leave if he didn't like it? Our system was built on rebellion, and built to withstand its cleansing power, need be.

You have to view this system, as a structure. Without the sturdy foundation of the Constitution, it is a mockery of its intent. It is a house of cards, waiting to be washed away by the rebellion of the oppressed. That was its intent, and its design, and it will eventually be recognized that when legislation to return it does not work, rebellion will, as intended serve that purpose allowing the sturdy constitutional foundation to stand again.

Once again, the grip of tyranny will force the blood of patriots to again cleanse the soil, for the betterment of our society as a whole, if the past is not recognized, and its warnings heeded.

My opinion, just stating it....

[Suburbanite]

Osborn is my new best friend.

[Poetic_Justice]

Trust me, public health care aint as great as its made out to be... I prefer the US system, least there you have some freedom even if its still ruled by many corporations.

[Suburbanite]

Public Health Care everywhere is shit, but we are Americans, I think we can do it better than the rest. =D

[Sandy]

I've never lived in any city/county/state that didn't have restrictions about adding living quarters within any residence. I owned an apartment house complex in Santa Monica and it took 3 years to get the permits to do this. I moved off an old home from the property years later and wated to build 4 units in the front. I was told I would have to build 8! I never figured out why they wanted more rather than less in this area. I gave up and sold the property years later and let the new owner try and do something with it.

I bought a home with an unfinished lower level. I went to the county for permits to finish it so I could use it as a spare bedroom. I was told this was permitable if I kept the outer walls and made no changes to them. I did it, they came out and inspected it and that was all there was to it. I was able to sell the home 15 years later and more than made up the cost of my spare room.

I've always worked within the system as it pays in the long run.

[Osborn F Enready]

Your right Alec, we are looked at like we are out of our minds. Just like the people who wanted to free the slaves, just like the ones that fought for the right for women to vote, we are all the same. Looking for the Constitution to be recognized for what it clearly states.

The whole point of this country is liberty, and the rights of individuals to be equal in the eyes of the law. Your belief, or any persons beliefs should be protected, whether they are Aryan Nation, Seperatist, Quaker, Mormon, or any other belief. It is action that causes reaction, that is the whole point. All men are presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. All men are entitled to believe what they wish, but if they infringe anothers right, or commit fraud, they are breaking the laws of the constitution, and should be dealt with. NOBODY says there should be NO LAWS, except anarchists. Laws are essential to maintain order, but when they infringe on a persons right to live, believe, or work as they see fit with no harm to another, or infringing anothers rights or property, they are to be left alone.

I am not an anarchist, I am an American. I have the right to not only have my beliefs, but speak out, provide material, change minds. I have the right to present legislation, and petition. I have the right to keep and bear arms. I have the right to DEMAND my government be held accountable for its actions, because that government is put in place to serve ME, AND ALL CITIZENS.

In our original Constitutionally Limited, Democratic Republic, 99% percent of the people, could not remove the rights of 1% of the people. The reason is, those rights are clearly NOT to be infringed. The problem is, by signing in the War Powers and National Emergency Act in 1933, all of the branches of government have been turned over to the Executive Branch. That my friend, is martial law, and also tyranny. The only thing that differs us from a kingdom now, is that we can vote our officials into office, however, even that right is being removed without your knowledge, much like you have been led to believe your social security card is required, and your income tax is justified. The War Powers and National Emergency Act are still in effect by the way, since march 1933, and it was partly due to allow the creation of the Federal Bank.(which is technically unconstitutional)

The truth is, since the Republican and Democratic parties were formed, and realized their potential to lock the white house, and its appointment powers due to overwhelming majority of support at the time. This gave them a blank ticket to operate behind closed doors, and maintain a front to the people. Evaluate what caused the creation of the Federal Reserve, the roaring '20s, the following depression, and especially the time period after the declared "bank holiday". This is when all things started to go wrong, but they were not noticed due to an increasing economy, a stable growth movement, and the beginning of hostillities in Europe.

You truly love to speak of history a lot Alec, but I really think you need to study that time period more, and evaluate where all corruption started showing up in government.

In World War II, the world counted on us, and should have.

In Vietnam, Columbia, Africa, Haiti and Iraq, we were not under direct threat, and they could have all been handled better, more efficiently if at all.

Iraq has not been a threat since the '91 Gulf War, which I joined the Navy to serve in, because at the time, I was uninformed.

If all nations, remained more isolationist with troop movement, and more free with trade, and no sanctions, this would be a much safer, more productive and peaceful world my friend. The U.S. has been one of the worst offenders of sanction operations, therefore has the most enemies in current third world countries, since we helped to keep them third world, and have abused their loyalties with each new administration.

History tells the tale...

[Mike]

Osborn for President!!

[GreatWyrm of Babylon]

Right now the rest of the world is benefiting from American non-free health care. We develop it and the rest of the world passes laws so that we have to sell the drugs here higher to pay for the research. Sure, the other countries buy it for more than it costs to produce, but Americans end up paying for the research with their drug costs.

BTW: I do not understand how a country (Denmark) that will haul off your car if the neighbors find it ugly, is free?

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
If all nations, remained more isolationist with troop movement, and more free with trade, and no sanctions, this would be a much safer, more productive and peaceful world my friend.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Highly laughable. Isolationism is not the answer and never will be. We have to intervene in many countries. If we didn't, people in Britain would of have to learn how to speak German.

[Osborn F Enready]

Giancarlo, I cited my instances of reference, where are yours?

I said the world needed our involvement in WWII.

What about all conflicts since, where is your proof sir?

[Osborn F Enready]

Also, youll notice I said ISOLATION OF TROOP MOVEMENTS, and free trade. If you have conflict with that, I encourage you to show me some aspects where you deduce your reasoning. I am not an isolationist, nor am I a neu-liberal. I am for sensible use of the military for defense and not economic purposes.