64% Say Iraq War Not Worth Fighting, etc.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Scribbler This is why so many people support Bush, IMO, because Saddam WAS a rotten bastard and it was too easy to make the connection between him being a rotten bastard and being a threat to US, which he was not.

Ah yes... the classic "Boogey Man" theory of global and domestic politics. Da Boogey Man gonna getcha!!

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica The Democrats keep providing stupid sound bites to terrorists that al-Zarqawi keeps pointing to as American weakness and that keep getting replayed from Democrats on Al Jazerra.

GBA, you keep forgetting that Bush handed them the biggest sound bite of all. Osama had long prediced that the Unitied States just wanted an excuse to invade a mideast a country for their oil. When Bush invaded Iraq for no visible reason, he turned bin Laden into a Prophet, and mobilized the entire fundamentalist mideast to Jihad.

It's like when Reagan turned tail and ran from Beirut... sometimes when you screw things up, it's best to swallow the bitter medicine and cut your losses.

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica It is ignorant to make claims this President doesn't know what the hell he is doing, he knows what he is doing and nobody elected you.

It's time for some soul seaching, GBA...

During the 2000 elections, there were liberals who took delight in calling Dubya dumb. I used to take them to task, saying they were foolishly underestimating Boy George. After all, I argued, he grown up at the feet of a man who was a Congressman, the Director of the CIA, the U.S. Ambassador to the UN, the Vice President and President of the U.S. He had to have learned something and, as a reasonably successful Governor of a large state and having won the Republican nomination for President, how dumb could he actually be.

Well, if not actually dumb, certainly without much intellectual depth. I mock him these days as a 'Peter Principle' case study, but I don't see that as far off the mark. I'm now convinced that Bush got where he is by whose son he is, combined with arrogant confidence, ruthlesness and will. We're haunted by the specter of his getting into the Guard through his father's influence and making his fortune through his father's influence and losing other people's money. In the end, he's a man in way over his head, without the intellectual tools for the job, who gets sold on simple concepts from his cabal of Neo-Con and Religious Right advisers without comprehending those concepts to any depth.

How else could he possibly have presumed that we could simply waltz into Iraq without facing a local AND an imported insurgency, as his intelligence services and senior military kept telling him? For the love of America, GBA, look what Bush has done in 5 years....

a bad war in Iraq launched by mistake, Hurricane Katrina, his floundering Social Security plan, his insane Medicare Drug Program, his out of control budgets, his Harriet Miers debacle, his insane support for out of step issues like Terri Schiavo, Stem Cell Research, etc.

Face it, GBA... elected or not, he DOESN'T know what he's doing.

Quote by: Jenny But i've said all that I could, and I'm not going to lie, I cant say right now what kind of war is worth fighting.

The one where you're fighting for your fellow squadmates standing to the left and right of you. Best of luck, Jenny, and come back safe, ok. We're proud of those performing their duty with courage and honor. We just wish you had a Commander-in-Chief worthy of you. :rolleyes:

.

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Sonart Face it, GBA... elected or not, he DOESN'T know what he's doing.

It's beginning to look like he DID know what he was doing, lying about biological weapons that is, or being so SEVERELY poorly informed that he should quit immediately.

"Germans say informant US used to justify war in Iraq was unreliable By Bob Drogin and John Goetz, Los Angeles Times | November 20, 2005 BERLIN -- German intelligence officials responsible for one of the most important informants on Saddam Hussein's suspected weapons of mass destruction said that the Bush administration and the CIA had repeatedly exaggerated the informant's assertions as Washington prepared for the war. Article Tools Five senior officials from Germany's Federal Intelligence Service said in interviews with The Los Angeles Times that they warned US intelligence authorities that the source, an Iraqi defector codenamed Curveball, never claimed to produce germ weapons and never saw anyone else do so. According to the Germans, President Bush mischaracterized Curveball's information when he warned before the war that Iraq had at least seven mobile factories brewing biological poisons."

And further down in the Boston Globe story. LINK

"An investigation by the Los Angeles Times, based on interviews since May with about 30 current and former intelligence officials in the United States, Germany, England, Iraq, and the United Nations showed that US bungling in the Curveball case was far worse than official reports had estimated. The White House, for example, ignored evidence that UN weapons inspectors had disproved virtually all of Curveball's accounts before the war. As war approached, President Bush and his aides issued increasingly dire warnings about Iraqi germ weapons as the invasion neared, even though intelligence from Curveball had not changed. At the CIA, senior officials embraced Curveball's claims, even though they could not verify them or interview him until a year after the invasion."

Comments?

[Jenny317]

The one where you're fighting for your fellow squadmates standing to the left and right of you. Best of luck, Jenny, and come back safe, ok. We're proud of those performing their duty with courage and honor. We just wish you had a Commander-in-Chief worthy of you. :rolleyes:

.[/quote]
what?

[Jenny317]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I for one appreciate that kind of honesty.

Hey, at least I'm not making up something that makes me sound dumb lol, I just said the straight, honest truth lol

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Jenny317 The one where you're fighting for your fellow squadmates standing to the left and right of you. Best of luck, Jenny, and come back safe, ok. We're proud of those performing their duty with courage and honor. We just wish you had a Commander-in-Chief worthy of you. :rolleyes: .

what?[/quote]
I think Sonart was under the impression you were a soldier. But since I could be wrong, are you?

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: Jenny317 Hey, at least I'm not making up something that makes me sound dumb lol, I just said the straight, honest truth lol

I think everyone here thinks what they say is the truth. You just said it in a refreshing matter-of-fact way which I thought was lacking in some folks' postings. That, and you didn't get on my nerves!

[Sonart]

Quote by: Jenny what?

OOooops... apparently I did think you were in the service and going to Iraq. My mistake. Doh!!!!

.

[maverick0607]

granpa if you havent figure this out yet i am an iraq war combat vet let me explain some thing to the us military has acomplished its primary goal in iraq to remove saddam hussein from power once primary mission is accomplishded we move on to stablizing a region once you remove a goverment you cant just leave or the country will sprial out of control ie germany after wwI. we learned this after wwII and still hav troops in germany and japan along with korea and kossovo why so if something should happen we can rapidly neutrlize the problem instead of letting it essiclate into a larger conflict you think the muslim world hates the us now it would be a lot worse if we pulled out of iraq now do you think the foriegin national insurgets are goin to leave if we do the answer no they will stay and feed hatred into the hearts of a generation or more of youn iraqi children who by the way love america now because we provide them with food and education the news you see shows only the bad because the bad sells more then good i know this because i saw news reports of events i was in and they were completly wrong or overly exagerated

[Apeman81]

Congress voted to authorize the President to attack Iraq in Oct, 2002.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/W...n_War_Iraq.html

From Bush Jan 2003 State of the Union''

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/rele...0030128-19.html

Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide.

SO Bush lied to the Dems AFTER they voted to Authorize the war. I get it.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Isherwood What the hell? Even espionage has become a part-time job?

It was a really good one.
Whenever I read your post, I can not stop from laughing :-)))))))

[grandpa]

Quote by: maverick0607 granpa if you havent figure this out yet i am an iraq war combat vet let me explain some thing to the us military has acomplished its primary goal in iraq to remove saddam hussein from power once primary mission is accomplishded we move on to stablizing a region once you remove a goverment you cant just leave or the country will sprial out of control ie germany after wwI. we learned this after wwII and still hav troops in germany and japan along with korea and kossovo why so if something should happen we can rapidly neutrlize the problem instead of letting it essiclate into a larger conflict you think the muslim world hates the us now it would be a lot worse if we pulled out of iraq now do you think the foriegin national insurgets are goin to leave if we do the answer no they will stay and feed hatred into the hearts of a generation or more of youn iraqi children who by the way love america now because we provide them with food and education the news you see shows only the bad because the bad sells more then good i know this because i saw news reports of events i was in and they were completly wrong or overly exagerated

That is one epic run-on sentence. Anyway, promoting freedom doesn't mean "Let's open up a can of whoop-ass on them."
But apparently some peopel think it does. We haven't given Iraqis a break in thie regard, as we've regularly bombed them over the years--even during the supposedly tranquil Clinton years.
While we were being warned by Bush that war was imminent, I knew it was the United States' decision.
You can talk about Japan or Germany as much as you want, but this is full of different circumstances.
Some Muslims hate the US alliance because they are aware of us attacking Middle Eastern countries for many decades now. We probably inflicted a great excess of 1000 casualties to ordinary Iraqis over the past few years alone. That's going to cause some people to hate America. One hardly needs to ponder why at great length.

If you think things aren't as bad as the media says, then who would correct you?
You already think the war was justified, so obviously things are going to appear better for you.
You're tired of people picking on the military, I'm tired of US aggression.

Grandpa h.

[Jenny317]

Quote by: Scribbler1 what?

I think Sonart was under the impression you were a soldier. But since I could be wrong, are you?[/quote]
no I'm not a soldier, never was never will be; too scared lol

[Jenny317]

Quote by: Scribbler1 I think everyone here thinks what they say is the truth. You just said it in a refreshing matter-of-fact way which I thought was lacking in some folks' postings. That, and you didn't get on my nerves!

I'm just saying what I think, I'm not saying what I say is right lol, that's just how I feel. I do like to be right but that's not what this is about; it's what you think. Some people are just "no I'm right and thats final" lol

P.S. sorry I'm posting like ten years later lol

[Jenny317]

Quote by: Sonart OOooops... apparently I did think you were in the service and going to Iraq. My mistake. Doh!!!! .

Yeah, your mistake... Don't assume things sweethart. Assume is spelled... [ASS-U-ME] lol but it's cool don't worry about it; I guess it's a bit of a compliment to be mistaken for a soldier lol

[Clarence]

snocones are so refreshing. Thanks Jenny. Pretty soon you'll be melted cheese. such fitting descriptions for changes one experiences here. You go from cool and refreshing to yellow and sticky yet fulfilling. Then you rot and then you turn into fire. Yep, God talks to you on the internet. Just kidding, keep up a good attitude. And don't let people sway what you think without facts. even then, follow your heart. See ya in, like, ten years.

[MLC]

Will The Iraq Ever Have A Draft. All Men 18-30 Should Be Drafted To Protect Their Own Country. When That Happens U.s. Troops Can Be Dismissed!

[Scribbler1]

Quote by: MLC Will The Iraq Ever Have A Draft. All Men 18-30 Should Be Drafted To Protect Their Own Country. When That Happens U.s. Troops Can Be Dismissed!

Excellent question and one I haven't heard before. Does anyone have an answer to this?

[Jenny317]

Quote by: Clarence snocones are so refreshing. Thanks Jenny. Pretty soon you'll be melted cheese. such fitting descriptions for changes one experiences here. You go from cool and refreshing to yellow and sticky yet fulfilling. Then you rot and then you turn into fire. Yep, God talks to you on the internet. Just kidding, keep up a good attitude. And don't let people sway what you think without facts. even then, follow your heart. See ya in, like, ten years.

It's me!!! 20 years later ::giggles:: Anyway, yeah I never let people change my mind about how i feel about things. I listen to what they say but if I feel a way about something then it's staying like that lol. By the way, pretty interesting comment about the snow cown and melted cheese lol. talk to ya in anotehr 10 years!!! lol

[rmnunez]

Bush's approval rating climbing:

After months of political erosion, President Bush's approval rating improved markedly in the latest New York Times/CBS News Poll, largely tracking Americans' more positive attitudes toward the economy. The survey, conducted Dec. 2-6, showed Mr. Bush's approval rating at 40 percent, up from 35 percent a month ago, which was the low point of his presidency. His gains primarily came among men, independents, 18-to-29-year-olds and conservatives. He remains a fiercely polarizing figure, with an approval rating of 79 percent among Republicans, 12 percent among Democrats and 34 percent among independents. Over all, 53 percent of Americans disapprove of Mr. Bush's job performance, down from 57 percent a month ago. Despite his gains, Mr. Bush's 40 percent approval rating remains among his lowest, and is still substantially lower than that of Presidents Bill Clinton (who was at 58 percent) or Ronald Reagan (who was at 68 percent) at comparable points in their second terms. Charles Cook, who publishes an independent political newsletter tracking Congressional races, said Mr. Bush's uptick in the poll is "consistent with everything else out there." He added: "It looks like they're finally getting a little bit of credit for the economy performing as strongly as it has. We've had good economic news for a while, but Iraq so dominated things it couldn't break through." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/08/po...ed=print<br />

The source has lots of data on attitudes and opinions on intervention, how poll numbers may affect midterm elections and the next bid for the presidency.