US vows to stop illegal migrants

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: Zeebadee Why should we inconvenience them by making them come here to collect our money??

Not all of them do have to. Look at the millions we send to Africa to help the people starve more, or to Israel to help them develop WMDs while we wreck another country for it that didn't even have them.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Son of Belial I specifically said illegal aliens. If you want to live in a country, you come in legally. If you are seen crossing the border to Canada illegally, they WILL shoot you. Have you read reports of the farmers in Texas having their farmlands torn apart by illegals? They steal and damage crops, destroy the area, kill cattle, etc. Do you think that's right? Leprosy, TB and other disease rates are exploding thanks to the influx of illegal aliens. The average illegal alien will spread TB to more than 10 US citizens. And guess where they tend to work? In restaurants across the country preparing your food. http://www.tblog.com/templates/index...&static=469146 http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/2002/s...srsept02.shtml http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=43384 http://www.rense.com/general19/TBAL.htm http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1098224/posts http://www.cis.org/articles/2003/back1103.html The president certainly speaks at at least a 3rd grade level. I'd say he's at least as eloquent a speaker as an average middle schooler. But that's neither here nor there. There is no reason for me to have to learn the language of immigrants for their convenience. My wife used to live in San Antonio and lived with an Hispanic. I say Hispanic because he was born in the US and spoke English, though his parents were Mexican. Anyway, she learned a lot of Spanish from him. They were in a grocery store, and these two Mexicans in front of them were buying groceries with an Independence card(welfare, food stamps basically). While they were buying groceries with my tax money, they were saying in Spanish how much they hate America, how bad it sucks, how evil it is, etc. Let me get this straight. You're getting money to buy food from this government for free, taken from the pockets of working Americans, while simultaneously saying you hate this country? Even worse, you're saying it in Spanish right in the line. Then there are all these immigrants who refuse to learn English. Not that they just haven't learned it yet... I can understand them making the attempt... but we've actually known people that REFUSE to learn English. They turn their noses up at it. They act indignant when someone mentions speaking English. This is an English speaking country, prick. What pisses me off worse is the Americans that defend this shit, like it's our duty to learn Spanish for THEIR convenience. English speaking Americans saying this bullshit. I'm concerned with fixing a problem. I'm NOT concerned with being politically correct. If anyone wants to call me a redneck, a racist, or "intolerant," please, be my guest. If and when things really go down the tubes, you can hold your head up high knowing that at least when you were letting this happen, you didn't get called any bad names.

I don't agree completely about the "illegal aliens" distinction -- people in Haiti can't come legally, even if they want to, so those who do want to settle here do it "illegally" -- but I see what you mean. The problem with immigrant and TB is certainly one that should concern us, but there's a simple answer to that (though you may not like this either . . .): Pay for innoculations, for everyone, everywhere. Smallpox got wiped out; why can't TB? However, I actually don't know if TB could be wiped out, biologically speaking; not a virologist or anything. So:

The solution to most of the problems with illegal aliens is to allow the ones into the country that do want to come just to work and earn money. If we allow in those who really just want jobs -- which in my experience really is the vast majority -- they would not break the laws they do, as I said, to avoid deportation. More importantly, they wouldn't use up the resources of the Border Patrol and Homeland Security, and they would no longer support the Coyotes and Snakeheads, the people who make money smuggling illegals into the U.S. If the millions of migrant workers were granted work visas, the coyotes would not have enough business to maintain, because a large percentage of their business is repeat business. Because people come here, earn money -- and then go back, just as every idiot racist I've ever heard (Not including the people here, I mean in my non-digital life) tells them to do, to Mexico. They spend the money, give it to their families, etc. Then they come back to earn more, and they pay the coyotes to help them cross the border again. Or, as you describe, they come across the fields of Texas farmers, and rip them to pieces. Or, they try to walk through the Sonoran desert by themselves or in groups without a guide, and they die.
People shouldn't have to die because they want to work.

I'm saying that we should allow the people who want to come here to work to do just that: work. They can get a work visa, they can come here and work, they can use those services that are necessary to them, like medical care, and they can, and will, follow the laws like everybody else. And we can "tag" them, like everybody else -- as compugasm said a while ago, and btw, sorry for misunderstanding and jumping on ya, C. Then they wouldn't be able (ideally) to get welfare or food stamps, which they most often get because they want to save their cash money for their families in Mexico and elsewhere. Why not work the system, if you can? Don't the rest of us do that, too? Rather than hate the migrants for using loopholes, close the loopholes.


NOW: there are other illegal aliens, like the ones you describe. I, personally, would disdain either my term or yours for them, and come up with a third: assholes. Anybody doing the things you describe is an asshole. Anybody who demands that others learn their language, without making the slightest effort to compromise, is an asshole -- not speaking of you, SOB. Your wife speaks some Spanish, you said; that's a compromise. As for saying they hate this country and that it's evil, well, it is evil. And if I lived in a place -- whether I was there by choice or not, legally or not -- and things happened to me and my friends like the things Americans do to illegal aliens, I would complain about that place, too. And it would make me an ungrateful asshole, but I'd still do it. These assholes are the ones who would still come here illegally, because they are criminals, drug smugglers, and the like.

BUT: without the coyotes in their current huge numbers, these "assholes" would have a much harder time getting in to this country. With the border patrol able to focus on the small number of assholes, and not the large number of willing workers, they'd have a much harder time getting past the border, even without the wall that Protostar suggested. And we all could focus on the real problems the assholes cause in our country, without getting bogged down sorting out which are the "good" illegal aliens, and which are the "bad." That's why I say we set up a system to allow in the willing workers, so we can tag and track them, take advantage of the economic inequity between U.S. wages and Mexican wages (Again, that's just good capitalism), and stop wasting resources on those people who wouldn't break laws if they didn't have to.

And you wouldn't have to worry about being called a racist, because there's nothing wrong with hating assholes.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: SOB If you are seen crossing the border to Canada illegally, they WILL shoot you.

Factually incorrect. You are either lying or misinformed. What are your qualifications to say this? Find me some evidence of this.

Have you read reports of the farmers in Texas having their farmlands torn apart by illegals? They steal and damage crops, destroy the area, kill cattle, etc.

No, I haven't. Link me to a factual report (i.e. not a blog or web-rag) that contains more then anecdotal evidence of this (anecdotal evidence being a few pissed-off Texans complaining under thinly veiled racist pretenses)

Leprosy, TB and other disease rates are exploding thanks to the influx of illegal aliens. The average illegal alien will spread TB to more than 10 US citizens.

Again, factual evidence please, not from the blogs you linked, since they aren't the ones actually studying this. Link me to either a reputable news source or the original peer-reviewed study.

Then there are all these immigrants who refuse to learn English. Not that they just haven't learned it yet... I can understand them making the attempt... but we've actually known people that REFUSE to learn English. They turn their noses up at it. They act indignant when someone mentions speaking English. This is an English speaking country, prick. What pisses me off worse is the Americans that defend this shit, like it's our duty to learn Spanish for THEIR convenience. English speaking Americans saying this bullshit.

I'll defend their right not to learn English. No one should be forced to do anything if it's only hurting them. Of course, the free market will really be the determining factor. As long as they can get the jobs they want without speaking English, there will be no motivation for them to do so. If they want to move up the corporate ladder, they will need to learn the language. It's as simple as that. There is no need to be pissed off or a jerk about it, simply realize the reality that exists for immigrants from all countries and has existed for over 200 years: The faster you integrate into our culture and language, the better off you are.

If anyone wants to call me a redneck, ...

You called yourself a redneck, I merely agreed with it.

So, I'm somewhat agreeing with CoffeeSaint. As a libertarian, I am intelligent enough to realize that the WORST thing to do when something like immigration is a problem is to make it illegal. By making it illegal, the government lacks the ability to regulate it and thus has lost all control.

Case in point: The war on drugs. By making them illegal, the government has lost the power to regulate them.

[RickSp]

Xenophobia, nativism and outright racism are nothing new to America. We are going through a new round of each. We recieve more from immigrants both monetarily and in terms of culture and vitality than immigrants cost us. (The problem is that the benefits are invariably skewed. The Federal government receives the taxes while local and state governments pay the bills. This structural inablance isn't the immigrant's fault but, of course, they get blamed. )

The distinction between legal and illegal immigrants is definitional. The xenophobes would like to make all immigrants "illegals". Changing the defintion doesn't change the immigrant.

I live within view of the Statue of Liberty and am surrounded by immigrants. All I know are hard working folks who take care of their families; fine Americans in all respects save the accident of their birth. The population of New York City is over 50% either immigrant or the children of immigrants. Crime is down, the economy is strong and the culture is dynamic.

Despite the nativists, we are still a nation of immigrants. That is still one of our greatest strengths. It remains to be seen whether the children of immigrants will finally succeed in slamming the door behind them.

[Son of Belial]

Again since you replied without personal attacks, you get a reply. Funny how that works.

Quote by: CoffeeSaint I don't agree completely about the "illegal aliens" distinction -- people in Haiti can't come legally, even if they want to, so those who do want to settle here do it "illegally" -- but I see what you mean. The problem with immigrant and TB is certainly one that should concern us, but there's a simple answer to that (though you may not like this either . . .): Pay for innoculations, for everyone, everywhere. Smallpox got wiped out; why can't TB? However, I actually don't know if TB could be wiped out, biologically speaking; not a virologist or anything.

So the solution is to spend MORE taxpayer's money on other people. So while people in the USA are out of work, can't afford medicine, and so on, we should spend money to give people here illegally innoculations. And I'm SUCH a racist for saying it too. Jesus Christ.

The solution to most of the problems with illegal aliens is to allow the ones into the country that do want to come just to work and earn money.

I don't understand how people can parrot this over and over. Is it so illogical for me to say ILLEGAL ALIENS SHOULDN'T BE HERE?

If we allow in those who really just want jobs -- which in my experience really is the vast majority -- they would not break the laws they do, as I said, to avoid deportation.

If they REALLY just want jobs, they can immigrate legally. I'm not sure why I'm a racist for saying people should obey the law, but okay.

More importantly, they wouldn't use up the resources of the Border Patrol and Homeland Security, and they would no longer support the Coyotes and Snakeheads, the people who make money smuggling illegals into the U.S.

I don't understand the logic of "stop illegal smuggling of people by letting them come over without holding back." Hell, you already said we should give illegal aliens free innoculations. Question: if the borders are open and they can run in and out as they please, who's going to do this "regulating" you mention? How can you regulate illegals? If they're regulated, chances are they immigrated legally... and I already said I have no problem with that.

If the millions of migrant workers were granted work visas, the coyotes would not have enough business to maintain, because a large percentage of their business is repeat business.

Exactly. So let them come here legally. Is this really an issue?

Because people come here, earn money -- and then go back, just as every idiot racist I've ever heard (Not including the people here, I mean in my non-digital life) tells them to do, to Mexico.

I'm not sure how telling an illegal alien who can't even speak the language here to go back home is racist, but again, whatever. I wouldn't want to be politically incorrect and risk offending people for something silly like the spread of disease or lowered wages. I'd rather be a government subservient pussy who lets everyone do my thinking for me and makes sure everyone likes him. I'm sure it gives people a thrill to run around thinking they're the "good guys" fighting the evil "racists."

People shouldn't have to die because they want to work.

So let them come in legally. Jesus.

I'm saying that we should allow the people who want to come here to work to do just that: work. They can get a work visa, they can come here and work, they can use those services that are necessary to them, like medical care, and they can, and will, follow the laws like everybody else. And we can "tag" them, like everybody else -- as compugasm said a while ago, and btw, sorry for misunderstanding and jumping on ya, C.

But IF THEY HAVE VISAS AND ID TAGS THEY'RE HERE LEGALLY! So why are we arguing?!

As for saying they hate this country and that it's evil, well, it is evil. And if I lived in a place -- whether I was there by choice or not, legally or not -- and things happened to me and my friends like the things Americans do to illegal aliens, I would complain about that place, too.

Then I will risk sounding like a "racist" and say if you hate it here so much, go back. I won't cry for you, believe me.

BUT: without the coyotes in their current huge numbers, these "assholes" would have a much harder time getting in to this country. With the border patrol able to focus on the small number of assholes, and not the large number of willing workers, they'd have a much harder time getting past the border, even without the wall that Protostar suggested.

That logic makes no sense. Letting people into the country at will keeps assholes out? What? Do you really think allowing people in more freely is going to keep more people out?

And you wouldn't have to worry about being called a racist, because there's nothing wrong with hating assholes.

I'm not the one that worries about being called a racist. It's the people that go "OMG U H8 ILLEGAL ALIENS B/C YOU WEAR A HOOD, I'M THE GOOD GUY I LIKE FOREIGNERS I RULE" that are afraid of that shit. They cling to their position desperately because they love the feeling that they're fighting the big bad fascists.

[CoffeeSaint]

Quote by: Son of Belial Again since you replied without personal attacks, you get a reply. Funny how that works.

I've always thought so. I'm especially fond of the folks who seem to think that implying my idiocy with really big words is more mature and less insulting that saying "dumbass," but there it is.

Quote by: Son of Belial So the solution is to spend MORE taxpayer's money on other people. So while people in the USA are out of work, can't afford medicine, and so on, we should spend money to give people here illegally innoculations. And I'm SUCH a racist for saying it too. Jesus Christ.

I said you wouldn't like it, but yes. If we really want to eliminate diseases as a threat to Americans, the answer is to spend HUGE amounts of taxpayer money to eliminate all of the diseases that we can. When there is a vaccine that truly works, I think it would be worth the money to kill the bacterium completely, so we can stop paying for treatment in future -- and also save millions of lives, including American lives. As I said, I don't know if that's possible with TB, but if it is, could there be a better way to spend taxpayer money? Yes, I hear you on the Americans without jobs, who can't pay for medicine, etc. But I can't help but wish that we, as people, could get past the nationalistic views when it comes to doing things that can't be anything but good -- like fighting disease and saving lives.

Quote by: Son of Belial I don't understand how people can parrot this over and over. Is it so illogical for me to say ILLEGAL ALIENS SHOULDN'T BE HERE?

This was after I suggested that illegal aliens that want to work here be allowed in to work, legally; you followed with several more and more aggravated comments about this.

No, it's not illogical, but conflating the illegal aliens that cause problems with the ones who enter legally is not fair. The majority of Mexican illegal migrants come here to work, not to settle. They don't WANT to live in the U.S. They want to live in Mexico -- they just can't find jobs there, or not ones that will pay enough. So they come here, illegally, to work, and then they go back and give their earnings to their families. They come here illegally because this country does not allow enough work visas to be issued to meet the demand. Therre are probably a million people that do this, though I don't have any hard numbers and I doubt anybody does, illegal aliens being notoriously hard to count. Those are the ones I was talking about. Those are the ones who should be allowed in.

And by allowed in, I don't mean somebody swings wide some huge gate and yells, "C'mon in, y'all!" I mean they apply for, and receive IF they pass the screening process, a work visa that would allow them to live here and work for a period of time -- probably six months or so -- and then go back to Mexico. We don't have this now. We allow people, some people, to immigrate freely and settle here, but they can't come in, work, and then leave. Not legally. So they do it illegally, and do everything I said about use up resources, etc.

If they were allowed in, they wouldn't cause problems for us: they would just work, and leave. If you don't see them the same way, or you don't agree with me that most illegal aliens are this type, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Quote by: Son of Belial I'm not the one that worries about being called a racist. It's the people that go "OMG U H8 ILLEGAL ALIENS B/C YOU WEAR A HOOD, I'M THE GOOD GUY I LIKE FOREIGNERS I RULE" that are afraid of that shit. They cling to their position desperately because they love the feeling that they're fighting the big bad fascists.

I know you're not. I tend to address more than just one specific person in my posts, or at least try to, which is why I keep throwing in disclaimers like, "Not you, SOB." By the same token, I'll assume you don't think I'm one of the group of people who use "H8" for the word "hate," because I h8 when people do that crap -- I'm an English teacher.

IMO, there is a difference between people who come here illegally just to work and keep their heads down, and people who come here illegally and abuse the system because they are lazy and greedy. I think there are lots of Americans who abuse the system too, and I think they are just as bad as people from other countries who screw things up for the rest of us. I really believe that allowing Mexicans, and people from other countries, to become guest workers in the U.S., would solve a lot of our problems, and we could focus more of our resources on getting rid of the abusers. Are you of the same mind, or not?

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint I've always thought so. I'm especially fond of the folks who seem to think that implying my idiocy with really big words is more mature and less insulting that saying "dumbass," but there it is.

Ad hominem attacks generally mean the person is on unsure footing, but I've been known to make them from time to time, so I should keep my mouth shut.

I said you wouldn't like it, but yes. If we really want to eliminate diseases as a threat to Americans, the answer is to spend HUGE amounts of taxpayer money to eliminate all of the diseases that we can. When there is a vaccine that truly works, I think it would be worth the money to kill the bacterium completely, so we can stop paying for treatment in future -- and also save millions of lives, including American lives.

Your solution is to spend billions to give free innoculations to people who shouldn't be here. Mine is to keep them out. Not sure which one costs less, but I'd wager mine, and it's a lot simpler than hunting down illegal aliens to give innoculations to. One of the points of illegal aliens is they aren't supposed to let us know they're here.

As I said, I don't know if that's possible with TB, but if it is, could there be a better way to spend taxpayer money? Yes, I hear you on the Americans without jobs, who can't pay for medicine, etc.

I've been looking for a job for over a month now. I can't even get a job flipping burgers right now, and even if I coukld, it won't pay my bills. Trust me, I couldn't care less about the people in Mexico.

But I can't help but wish that we, as people, could get past the nationalistic views when it comes to doing things that can't be anything but good -- like fighting disease and saving lives.

That's the problem. Solve your own problems before helping the rest of the world. When people in this country have good jobs, have homes, and medical care, then we can help everyone else. Until then, to hell with them.

No, it's not illogical, but conflating the illegal aliens that cause problems with the ones who enter legally is not fair.

Not fair to who? To them, or to us? Fuck them.

The majority of Mexican illegal migrants come here to work, not to settle. They don't WANT to live in the U.S. They want to live in Mexico -- they just can't find jobs there, or not ones that will pay enough.

Neither can I. Ain't life a bitch? Stop having so many kids.

So they come here, illegally, to work, and then they go back and give their earnings to their families. They come here illegally because this country does not allow enough work visas to be issued to meet the demand. Therre are probably a million people that do this, though I don't have any hard numbers and I doubt anybody does, illegal aliens being notoriously hard to count. Those are the ones I was talking about. Those are the ones who should be allowed in.

I disagree. I think our debate is at a standstill, to be honest. I probably won't reply after this unless something is said where I have something new to say. I'm noticing the trend here is becoming us repeating ourselves.

And by allowed in, I don't mean somebody swings wide some huge gate and yells, "C'mon in, y'all!" I mean they apply for, and receive IF they pass the screening process, a work visa that would allow them to live here and work for a period of time -- probably six months or so -- and then go back to Mexico. We don't have this now. We allow people, some people, to immigrate freely and settle here, but they can't come in, work, and then leave. Not legally. So they do it illegally, and do everything I said about use up resources, etc.

As I said, if they have a work visa, then they're here legally. But I still think it's bullshit that people here are out of work, and we're going to truck in people from another country. I don't care if people in Mexico, or Ethiopea, or China, or Korea have jobs. They don't care if I have one.

If they were allowed in, they wouldn't cause problems for us: they would just work, and leave. If you don't see them the same way, or you don't agree with me that most illegal aliens are this type, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.

As I said above, that is what I forsee happening. I would simply close the borders and disallow any more illegal immigration. Period. When we get our problems in order we can go about helping everyone else. While there are hungry mouths in America it sickens me that people are worrying that people are starving in some third-world country that never has, and never will, do anything for anyone.

I know you're not. I tend to address more than just one specific person in my posts, or at least try to, which is why I keep throwing in disclaimers like, "Not you, SOB." By the same token, I'll assume you don't think I'm one of the group of people who use "H8" for the word "hate," because I h8 when people do that crap -- I'm an English teacher.

Nope, I wouldn't be responding to you if I felt that way. I was talking about the people who decide to throw ad hominem attacks constantly and contradict themselves. The ones that post in other debates here saying that they have no evidence for their statements because the government covers it up, and then asks me to provide evidence for my statements that, gee, perhaps is being covered up. I'm not going to play games, symantic or otherwise. You want to debate me, debate me. You want to throw attacks or contradict yourself, find someone else to fight with.

IMO, there is a difference between people who come here illegally just to work and keep their heads down, and people who come here illegally and abuse the system because they are lazy and greedy. I think there are lots of Americans who abuse the system too, and I think they are just as bad as people from other countries who screw things up for the rest of us. I really believe that allowing Mexicans, and people from other countries, to become guest workers in the U.S., would solve a lot of our problems, and we could focus more of our resources on getting rid of the abusers. Are you of the same mind, or not?

I'm not. I don't think letting more people in the country is going to solve any of our problems. People that come in illegally... come in illegally. Even if we come up with special visas or whatever, it will help us track more of them, but you will still have the ones sneaking over, either because they won't pass whatever tests they need to get through, or just out of defiance(like the ones I mentioned standing in line, using MY money to buy food while cursing my country in Spanish).

No, getting rid of the abusers, to me, is telling them "No more, we have our fill," and fixing our internal problems before allowing more external ones. You're right; people here do abuse the system. Let's deal with them first before allowing more people in to play games with the system.

[Compugasm]

SOB, I'm quoting you a bit out of context, but these two statements:

Quote by: Son of Belial Is it so illogical for me to say ILLEGAL ALIENS SHOULDN'T BE HERE? & I would simply close the borders and disallow any more illegal immigration. Period.

... Feed off each other, increasing the number of illegal aliens. You're right, illegal aliens shouldn't be here. If there is anyone you should be cracking down on, it's the employers giving them jobs. No papers, no work. Take away the profit motive for coming/hiring.

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: Compugasm SOB, I'm quoting you a bit out of context, but these two statements: ... Feed off each other, increasing the number of illegal aliens. You're right, illegal aliens shouldn't be here. If there is anyone you should be cracking down on, it's the employers giving them jobs. No papers, no work. Take away the profit motive for coming/hiring.

It's already illegal to hire illegal aliens. Of course it goes without saying we should crack down on companies who hire them. We should also not allow them into our country. This is common sense.

[RVonse]

Quote by: CoffeeSaint Preserve our culture? What culture? Build a wall and shoot people? What is the matter with you? WHAT ARE WE PROTECTING?

The right to speak my native tongue (English) in my own country. The right for equal opportunity to find a job in my own country.

Protostar perhaps is extreme with his comments but he is on the right track.

[RVonse]

Quote by: tivodan1116 Where is the exploitation? Mexicans want so badly to work for those low wages they risk life and family to come here... I would say that's a pretty strong indicator that what you have is an employment contract between a willing employer and a willing employee and I don't see the problem with it. People should be allowed to work for whatever wage they desire and the market will pay. It's called capitalism..

The exploitation is in the fact that the imigrant labor is really just a mercenary arrangement between a poor country vs a richer one. The employee has no aspiration to live here and is sending most of the earnings out of our country. That alone hurts us in many financial ways and our treasury is bleeding to death. The company is exploiting the fact that they are not offering jobs to real Americans at what should be a price governed by supply and demand of OUR population.

This is nothing but exploitation.

[RVonse]

Quote by: tivodan1116 . Most likely it was illegally or in the grey area between totally legal and illegal. Get over it.

Totally false. Until the very recent, ALL immigration was legal. 100 years ago, we wanted people to come here and settle.

[RVonse]

Quote by: tivodan1116 I'm confused. You say that hiring "illegal" aliens causes pay to go down? How? How does hiring "illegal" aliens for low paying jobs cause pay for other jobs to go down?? All you can find are minimum wage jobs? Are you saying that "illegal" immigrants are taking the high paying jobs then?? You can't have it both ways. .

What he said is correct and you are wrong again. Under capitalism the price of labor is determined by supply vs demand. Bring in more supply and the price falls. It is totally false that the aliens are doing "jobs that no one else wants". Americans would be glad to do those jobs at fair wages. Fair wages which they could command if not for the unfair influx of labor supply.

[RVonse]

Quote by: Chris the Chees The great irony of the whole situation is that the very people demanding an end to immigration are the benofactors of migration, in most cases of just a few generations previously.

That was back in the days before this country was settled. We are much differeent today, human capital is no longer valued, land, and other resources are in short supply. Homesteading is a thing of the past.

Its an apples to oranges comparison.

[Protostar]

I completely agree with everything you said Son of Belial. These illegals put an incredible strain on our already broken public education system. There was a bill here recently that would have allowed illegal immigrants to pay in state tuition at state universities. Fortunately it failed. These people have no right to an education when they are no US citizens. Nor do they have any right to medical assistance. I have no problem with immigrants so long as they do it LEGALLY!

[Jack]

I thought some around here didn't feel that we had any right to tell employers what they could do with their business. So, if some want to hire illegals, shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

[Protostar]

Quote by: Isherwood I thought some around here didn't feel that we had any right to tell employers what they could do with their business. So, if some want to hire illegals, shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

We don't. But if we purge the country of illegals then they will be forced to hire legal immigrants and American citizens won't they?

[Son of Belial]

Quote by: Isherwood I thought some around here didn't feel that we had any right to tell employers what they could do with their business. So, if some want to hire illegals, shouldn't they be allowed to do so?

I'm sure that was directed at ProtoStar, but personally I believe businesses should be regulated. I'm not sure where I even stand on the concept of a free market, to be honest, and won't state an opinion on it. But I do believe they should absolutely be regulated. But that's a topic for another thread.

[Jack]

they will be forced to hire legal immigrants and American citizens won't they?

Certainly, if they can afford to. I was just pointing out that this position is not consistant with letting companies do anything they please.