Condoleezza Rice

[RickSp]

Funny how right wing adulation drowns out reality.

Condi's magical mystery tour in Europe isn't working out too well. Seems very few actually believe her lies.

Skepticism Seems to Erode Europeans' Faith in Rice
Secretary Rice's Rendition

It was a sad enough measure of how badly the Bush administration has damaged its moral standing that the secretary of state had to deny that the president condones torture before she could visit some of the most reliable American allies in Europe. It was even worse that she had a hard time sounding credible when she did it. Of course, it would have helped if Condoleezza Rice was actually in a position to convince the world that the United States has not, does not and will not torture prisoners. But there's just too much evidence that this has happened at the hands of American interrogators or their proxies in other countries. Vice President Dick Cheney is still lobbying to legalize torture at the C.I.A.'s secret prisons, and to block a law that would reimpose on military prisons the decades-old standard of decent treatment that Mr. Bush scrapped after 9/11. Pesky facts keep getting in the way of Ms. Rice's message. Yesterday, the new German chancellor, Angela Merkel, said that Ms. Rice had acknowledged privately that the United States should not have abducted a German citizen, Khaled el-Masri, who says he was sent to Afghanistan and mistreated for five months before the Americans realized that they had the wrong man and let him go. At issue is the practice of extraordinary rendition. When a government captures someone really dangerous, like a terrorist leader, who cannot be charged under that government's own laws, it sends him to another country where authorities are willing to charge the suspect or at least can get away with locking him up indefinitely without charges. It's been going on for decades, infrequently and selectively, but the United States is reported to have stepped it up since 9/11 and violated international law by sending suspects to places where it knows they will be tortured. Recently, European governments expressed outrage at reports that some detainees were held at secret C.I.A. prisons in Europe.

As I've suggested before, Rice has a better chance of being tried as a war criminal than becoming elected president.

[Ceyaotl]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel You mean her own words "My Husband"?

And? She has always been married to her job and that is the dedication this nation needs. She works for the President and that is her job. This ain't Clinton, that is another kind of JOB he got while in office.

[shield772]

Actual in REALITY she has a better chance of being elected President than she does of being tried for war crimes. What war crimes has she commited?

[Ceyaotl]

Quote by: RickSp Funny how right wing adulation drowns out reality. Condi's magical mystery tour in Europe isn't working out too well. Seems very few actually believe her lies. Skepticism Seems to Erode Europeans' Faith in Rice Secretary Rice's Rendition As I've suggested before, Rice has a better chance of being tried as a war criminal than becoming elected president.

I would say the person that leaked this has a better chance of being put away then anyone. LOL! Condi is not and will not be charged with anything. This is more spooky memo crap. Place you tinfoil hat on the counter top for a second, comb you hair and return to reallity.
:eek:

[Ceyaotl]

Quote by: shield772 Actual in REALITY she has a better chance of being elected President than she does of being tried for war crimes. What war crimes has she commited?

Thats just it, none! they run around screaming evertime she makes a speach and try to pick her words apart. Libs live and work everyday do bring her down. That shows how important and how good she is. They know they are in for a disappointment because Karl Rove is still trucken. HA!

VIVA CONDI!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Ceyaotl The method of extracting information is just that, a method and if it works guess what? we use it.

Torture doesnt work. Go ahead say the word "Torture", you can do it. Torture. Its actually easier to say it than to not say it because it is a word fitly spoken. It must take water-boarding to program a person into using 5 words when just one word T-O-R-T-U-R-E, will do just fine

Quote by: Ceyaotl I never said "Torture is not torture" you did.

No I didnt, this POS did:


So did your president, the retard in chief:

Nevada Appeal "We do not torture." That's what President George W. Bush said, and we can believe him, right? After all, that whole water boarding thing is just a walk in the park. Here is how CIA sources described this technique to ABC News: "The prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt." And it seems to work pretty well. Another passage from the ABC story: "According to the sources, CIA officers who subjected themselves to the water boarding technique lasted an average of 14 seconds before caving in. They said al-Qaida's toughest prisoner, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, won the admiration of interrogators when he was able to last between two and two-and-a-half minutes before begging to confess." Wow. Two-and-a-half minutes to get the truth. Not bad. Perhaps the Justice Department could use this to speed up some investigations that are taking forever. How about that two-year investigation into who leaked Valerie Plame's CIA status? Stick Karl Rove on the water board and we can see who really leaked what in just a couple of minutes. That would be fair, wouldn't it? After all, his boss says it's not torture, right?

[RickSp]

Quote by: shield772 Actual in REALITY she has a better chance of being elected President than she does of being tried for war crimes. What war crimes has she commited?

Engaging in a conspiracy to launch an illegal war that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, engaging in a cover-up of violations of international law including the Geneva convention and the UN Convention Against Torture. That is a start anyway.

She would not be the first US Secretary of State charged with War Crimes .

[Boetie]

Ceyaotl posts: She has always been married to her job and that is the dedication this nation needs. She works for the President

She should be working for the United States. Unfortunately those whom work in this administration is loyal only to Bush Jr and not to the United States.

Bush Jr has created an enviornment where it is, "ask not what you can do for this country ask what you can do for Bush Jr."

Bush Jr destroying America's image all the time.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Ceyaotl I would say the person that leaked this has a better chance of being put away then anyone.

Leaked? You refer to reporting of public events in a major newspaper as leaks? You obviously have no more respect for freedom of the press than your odious goddess has for the truth.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Ceyaotl I would say the person that leaked this has a better chance of being put away then anyone.

So, Its not the crime thats wrong, but the guy that exposed it?

[shield772]

Quote by: RickSp Engaging in a conspiracy to launch an illegal war that resulted in the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, engaging in a cover-up of violations of international law including the Geneva convention and the UN Convention Against Torture. That is a start anyway. She would not be the first US Secretary of State charged with War Crimes .

Accused of not charged with

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: commonsense Dr.Rice, U.S. Secretary of State, ranks high among the most accomplished in politics today. At a time when voting for a candidate has meant choosing the lesser of two evils, Dr. Rice presents a truly principled selection. She speaks many languages and has represented the U.S. successfully in the most difficult cultural situations with universally accepted diplomacy, and worldwide acceptance, respect and popularity. Her views on the sanctity and preservation of 2nd Ammendment rights are rooted in her personal familial experience in escaping slavery via the Underground Railroad and in defending against Ku Klux Klan terrorism targeting black voters. Being a Black woman, her successful candidacy and support from principled Americans of all political persuasions, male or female, would put an end for all time the perceived injustices stemming from politicization by both sides, before or after the Civil Rights Movement; Her candidacy would dissolve the artificial and contrived divisiveness perpetuated on college campuses which only serves to benefit career politicians, bureaucrats, social engineers and so-called "educators" who are the only ones who benefit from cultivating Americans seeing themselves only as members of "groups" with their own agenda: dependent upon---or beholden to---those govt administrators who created or fomented their condition in the first place... A Condi Rice candidacy could go a long way toward forever uniting and restoring this nation under its founding principles of personal freedom, property rights, contract law and constitutionally limited government and taxation. There is a grass-roots movement afoot to draft and nominate Condi Rice without the dubiousness of big-money contributions that mark every other national campaign. Wouldn't it be truly hopeful and inspiring for the future of this country, the world's first to be united not under ethnicity, but under the shared and mutually beneficial principles of limiting the historically-proven tendency of all governments to grow and become controlling, usurping and over-reaching into its "subjects" lives? Wouldn't it be hopeful and inspiring to elect a true public servant who silently and without ego answers the call of duty once drafted into running for office out of reason and necessity, and not pursue office solely for career, or worse, out of condescending, elitist, self-serving totalitarian ideas? http://www.americansforrice.com/bumper_stickers.htm Dr. Rice does not espouse many of my political ideals, but as an American who "stereotypically" would be considered by the ignorant to automatically oppose someone like her, I feel I must not be alone in supporting this fine American for her superiority to all others who might compete with her. It may seem early to consider presidential candidates for 2008, but investigating the record and beliefs of this impressive American should cast the light of truth on all politicians, for Dr. Rice seems truly unique in her sincerity and dedication and lack of prejudice.

She won't do it. She is not interested and also knows IMO that all the Democrat politician racists would come out of the closet in mass if a black conservative ran.
Democrats want their blacks on the reservation or not around at all IMO.

She'd rather enjoy a pension and making 50k a speech later on the lecture circuit no doubt.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: shield772 Accused of not charged with

That kind of thing you responded to is why the Democrats are talking their way out of ever being a major party again.

[RickSp]

Quote by: shield772 Accused of not charged with

Not charged but very limited where he can travel these days. In several countries Kissenger is considered a fugative.

[shield772]

I don't think any nation would be ignorant enough to arrest a former US Secretary of State, especially under the current administration.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: shield772 I don't think any nation would be ignorant enough to arrest a former US Secretary of State, especially under the current administration.

Iran would, but they want to start a war and launch a nuke on Israel, that is their stated goal.
There's a whole other war starting up soon with Iran IMO.
The same guy Carter did NOT deal with regarding holding American hostages for years is the one elected President now. Trouble trouble trouble!

[PatrickHenry]

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/120705K.shtml You want to talk trouble, try looking at that lying shill of a Secretary of State that is the topic of this thread. Like I said a few pages back, nobody is fooled overseas by her empty rhetoric about the US not torturing. From the French newspaper Libération

George W. Bush and his coterie are wrong to think that any act is allowed in the war against terrorism, even when the law is a collateral victim. The detentions without trial at Guantanamo, the tortures at Abu Ghraib, the prisons and ghost aircraft of the CIA are all elements in the same legal black hole the Bush administration has dug and into which it is sucking its allies. It's pointless to provide (once again) the moral argument against torture, the denial of law, and illegal imprisonment. When a democracy ignores the law and violates the principles in the name of which it legitimates its fight, it delivers a weapon of mass destruction to enemies of freedom who can denounce its hypocrisy. On top of that, it saps the will of the people to resist terrorism, of those who know that a government of laws is one of the pillars of democracy and that by undermining it, we run the risk of tipping into a form of dictatorship.

Even the Brit pols are aware of the hypocrisy and find it objectionable:

Andrew Mullin, a Labor member of Parliament, said he had found Ms. Rice's assertions "wholly incredible." He agreed with Mr. Tyrie that Ms. Rice's statement had been "carefully lawyered," adding: "It is a matter of record that people have been kidnapped and have been handed over to people who have tortured them. I think their experience has to be matched against the particular form of language the secretary of state is using." To a great extent, the latest trans-Atlantic brouhaha reflects a very real division between Europe and the United States, reminiscent of the arguments that took place over the Iraq war two years ago. In the view of the Bush administration and its supporters, the Europeans' moral fastidiousness reflects a lack of realism about the nature of the terrorist threat and what needs to be done to defeat it. The view of Europeans, by contrast, is that they understand the terrorist threat perfectly well, but that the Bush administration's flouting of democratic standards and international law incites more terrorism, not less. "I resent the fact that my country is foolishly being led into a misguided approach into combating terrorism by this administration," Mr. Tyrie said. "European countries have a far greater experience over many decades dealing with terrorism, and many of us have learned the hard way that dealing in a muscular way can often inflame the very terrorism you're trying to suppress."

[shield772]

The detentions without trial at Guantanamo, the tortures at Abu Ghraib, the prisons and ghost aircraft of the CIA

What law says we have to give POW's a trial, we are punishing the people responsible at Abu Ghraib, and where does it say we can't have covert prisons and aircraft?

[Osborn F Enready]

god Bless America said:
That kind of thing you responded to is why the Democrats are talking their way out of ever being a major party again.

I say:
ROFLMAO....no really...LOL

If that were possible, and true, they BOTH would have been little, non-effectual parties by now.......

[Ceyaotl]

Quote by: shield772 What law says we have to give POW's a trial, we are punishing the people responsible at Abu Ghraib, and where does it say we can't have covert prisons and aircraft?

Very good point. The Geneva Convention is more of an understanding amongst Gentlemen and of certain parties. The Terrorist loving left want us to give the terrorist rights, lawyers and spend our tax dollars on giving them rights, not one of them would give our soldiers or people the smallest bit compassion. A head for a head would shock the world but stop the terror. I know that will never happen and I can imagine all that read this had a shiver when I said that "head for a head" , right? We are not that way but they do not hesitate. For the Libs that want these poor terrorist to have all these rights I just want to say if you are ever captured by a Terrorist you better be wearing an Iron turtle neck sweater.

So we have a secret prison in Europe, well not anymore. Anyway that leak should be prosecuted. It is secret for a reason and we take people there for a reason. Who cares and so what. We need to fight these bastards like there is no tomorrow and for some Americans there wont be, thanks to these terrorist. Give me a bare wire and a terrorist to question. To save an American soldier or civilian, I’ll do it.