Money

[Plasma Snake[D]]

Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

[grandpa]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

Yes, but it's not necessarily even proof of that. You need a certain amount of money to be rewarded--if you don't get a certain amount, it can be almost an empty gesture.
But the point is good--money has no intrinsic value. It's important to consider how our lives are tied up around little papers and metal pieces.

Grandpa h.

[SteveA]

I agree there's no guarantee that simply because someone has money means they provided something of value in exchange for it (especially not when it's paper).

Having a currency based upon something with more intrinsic value, while still easily exchanged and not prone to counterfeiting would be a good idea but it's easier said than done.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

Would you rather trade gold? That's pretty valuble.

But somewhat heavy and a pain in the ass to carry around.


Wouldn't you rather just carry money in place of gold?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Would you rather trade gold? That's pretty valuble. But somewhat heavy and a pain in the ass to carry around. Wouldn't you rather just carry money in place of gold?

I'd rather people used common sense and human intelligence as a means of exchange.

Grandpa h.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Would you rather trade gold? That's pretty valuble. But somewhat heavy and a pain in the ass to carry around. Wouldn't you rather just carry money in place of gold?

Now if there were some kind of backing, or insurance to guarantee the money has some intrinsic value, that would be a great concept many people could get behind.

[SteveA]

Quote by: Milton Bradley Now if there were some kind of backing, or insurance to guarantee the money has some intrinsic value, that would be a great concept many people could get behind.

Yes, not a bad idea. The only weakness is that you need a method to enforce contractual obligations and protect against fraud otherwise the paper is useless. In other words, we need a government that doesn't bail banks out and instead holds people accountable for criminal actions of theft.

[zynner]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

I have no idea what you mean by that, yet I suspect I disagree with it.

~ zynner

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: grandpa I'd rather people used common sense and human intelligence as a means of exchange. Grandpa h.

Neither of those have a quantitative value. Thus, you can't trade them.

[5010]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

True. It's the promise behind the money that is worth everything. Without it, money has SOME worth. Paper money produces warmth when burned and metal money can be formed into tools or used as a balancing weight.

Is it true that the materials in a cent cost more than a cent? Just curious.

[Boetie]

Money is social. It tells everyone who you are. For instance if you get on a streetcar you pay a little extra to sit up front. Even though the ride is just as bumpy for the front row rider as it is for the person sitting in the back, there are those whom will pay a little extra just for the privilege of demonstrating they have wealth.

Your worth or value is in terms of money. A classic example is the people of Katrina drowning, and the wealthy people of New York City getting a three day advanced notice to not ride the subway, the little people were never told. Both instance is a result of a government that is suppose to go by the rule that all people are created equal. Go figure.

[brien]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

I made this point in another post and how money is only related to what is guarantees in any society.

For example, the Native American had no concept of money. They traded goods. You may say what about waupum? Well, that was merely something that was traded as well. There was no currency accepted by the majority of Natives as a substitute for a blanket that may be traded for a bow. This is how the Native was "swindled" out of his hunting grounds.

The Native American in 1500 AD did not have a concept of ownershhip of land. They probably thought the Dutch were trading with them for the rights to hunt and live on the Manhattan Island in the 1600's. But they certainly never thought they would be driven from those lands that they inhabited because they "sold" the land to the Dutch.

Money has to be tied to something that the members who use money all want. It doesn't matter if it is gold, silver or carrots, but it must be something that is scarce enough to make the paper worth a certain amount of what is in short supply, ie the carrots or the gold.

Another example of money and its worthlessness is found in China in the 1800's. The British were trading with the Chinese but had nothing of value to trade the Chinese for their silks and teas. So the British got involved with Opium trading which caused addiction in Canton, and throughout China. Then the Chinese needed to trade with the British their silks and teas to supply its opium addicts with their drug. A tragic example of how money, and its lack of value, led to the famed "Opium Wars".

The world uses money because it has to have something to tender between each nation that will drive the world economy. So until they come up with something better, we are stuck with it.

But that doesn't imply that we, as members of that society, shouldn't do as much as we can to get away from having to be a slave to it. The less a person is dependent upon money, and the more self reliant they are in producing for themselves the necessities of life, then the more free they have become from coneventional society. Stay away from addictions and perhaps therein lies the direction of increased freedom and liberty.

[bishop]

Quote by: brien Money has to be tied to something that the members who use money all want.

that's not a fact.

what is a fact is that the participants simply have to view the money as possessing a useful value whereby they can use it to buy goods or services.

if your statement was a fact, fiat would not be useless to buy goods or services.

[gr8ridejester]

Quote by: Boetie Money is social. It tells everyone who you are. For instance if you get on a streetcar you pay a little extra to sit up front. Even though the ride is just as bumpy for the front row rider as it is for the person sitting in the back, there are those whom will pay a little extra just for the privilege of demonstrating they have wealth.

Hum, I would think they would have a limo driver drop them off, if they were wealthy...not ride in a street car. I guess it goes to show wealth is only perception manifested into reality by society. Money is the result of society's perceived need to have a tangible substance to provide validity of a transaction.

Quote by: Boetie Your worth or value is in terms of money. A classic example is the people of Katrina drowning, and the wealthy people of New York City getting a three day advanced notice to not ride the subway, the little people were never told. Both instance is a result of a government that is suppose to go by the rule that all people are created equal. Go figure.

"The people of Katrina" were given advanced warning as well and had adequate means of vacating the people prior to Katrina's landfall. But, that's another debate in itself. :rolleyes:

[brien]

Quote by: bishop that's not a fact. what is a fact is that the participants simply have to view the money as possessing a useful value whereby they can use it to buy goods or services. if your statement was a fact, fiat would not be useless to buy goods or services.

You are correct. I should have stated that it has have a "perceived value" to be effective. I stand corrected. Thank you.

[grandpa]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Neither of those have a quantitative value. Thus, you can't trade them.

Obviously, you can't trade the things by themselves, but they can be used as a basis of trade, as opposed to mandatory currency.

Grandpa h.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: grandpa Obviously, you can't trade the things by themselves, but they can be used as a basis of trade, as opposed to mandatory currency. Grandpa h.

You can only trade things if they have equal value. How can you trade something whose value can't be quantitized?

[grandpa]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 You can only trade things if they have equal value. How can you trade something whose value can't be quantitized?

Is money the only way to assign value to something or is it the government mandated way?

Grandpa h.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: Plasma Snake[D] Ever noticed that money itself is worthless, its just there as proof that you've somehow contributed to society and society will reward you back.

Try to read that aspect in the following way, and you would realize that society is being put aside into a different category :
- money is an accepted form (and/or mean) of rewarding other parties for their part in an agreement made between (them), and it works in both ways, respectively.
What a society and/or contribution has in commmon with money, I can guess only, unless you mean exactly that aspect as it is.

[oranged]

In order for money to have value, and help society, the world must all have the same currency. It's my new way to control inflation.