"It's not the economy stupid"

[Zealot]

(Continued from the speech of G.F.Will)

The stupidest slogan I have ever heard in the three-and-half decades in Washington was the Clinton slogan in 1992, "it's the economy stupid." The American people almost never vote their pocketbook as is commonly said, and almost never vote merely on economics. We are a much more morally serious and complicated people than that.

Well the kind of people we are is people who rise to the challenge of the new kind of enemy we have today. Our enemy has ideas. They are vicious, bad, retrograde, medieval, intolerant, and suicidal ideas, but ideas nevertheless. And we oppose them with the great ideas of freedom and democracy, which America has defined better than anyone else in the world. And we turn to these people with an energy they could not have counted on. Edward Grey once said, "The United States is like a gigantic boiler. Once the fire is lighted under it, there is no limit to the power it can generate." And these enemies improvidentially lit a fire under us.

Today we are the legatees of all the giants on whose shoulders we stand. We live in circumstances our parents did not live in, nor our grandparents. We live in a time in which there is no rival model to the American model for how to run a modern industrial commercial society. Socialism is gone, fascism is gone. The Soviet Union tried for 70 years to plant Marxism with bayonets in Eastern Europe. Today there are more Marxists on the Harvard faculty than there are in Eastern Europe.

We struggle today with the fact that the doctrine of preemption is neccessary, and with serious problems it entails. But what we must have overall is the confidence that our ideas are right. Lincoln said, "If we Americans cultivate our inner lives and our moral selves as industriously and productively as we cultivate the material world around us, he said, then perhaps we of all peoples can long endure." He was right. We have and we shall persevere, in no small measure because of the plucky brand of people, true to these ideas, such as those that have formed around the college we celebrate tonight.

"Reprinted in part by permission from Imprimis, the national speech digest of Hillsdale college, wwwhillsdale.edu." Words of G.F. Wells, journalist

Zealot

[Autolykos]

Zealot, neither of your two subsequent pastes from Mr. Will's article have said anything new, in my opinion. So I ask again: how do you justify preemptive war?

- Rob

[SteveA]

Here's the (attempt at) logic I see:

1) American people care little about the economy.

2) Americans love to fight. Especially when the propoganda reaches tabloid levels. Even to the point of blowing itself up if someone else lights the fuse.

3) America is so damn great that it's basically perfect and could do nothing wrong. Therefor, any people who say otherwise must be Marxists.

Which leads to the conclusion:

If we really wanted to kick butt like the great Lincoln did (), we should emulate him and start a war. If we can't claim it's in self defense, we can still kick them and then after they fight back we can then say that now it's self-defense and can't stop anyway because we already broke things and so must fix them by kicking some more butt. Besides were' spreading freedom. Anyone who says differently isn't rational or intelligent but must be a Marxist.

[Boetie]

It is the economy. Machiavilli wrote back in the 1400's of a guy whom became very popular because he went on a culture rant. The people took their paintings and books and burned them in the public square. But we always have to go back to real life and real life is economy. The popular guy was quickly ignored in favor of another guy who is talking economy the former popular guy burned himself in the public square.

George Will is trying to justify pre-emptive strike? George Will is short on brains and long on lunacy

[RickSp]

The essay is attributed to G.F.Will and G.F. Wells. Whoever he may be, he is spewing nonsense. It is a remarkable series of assertions and almost entirely unrelated ideas. It does nothing to supprt the assertion that preemption is anything but the action of an imperial bully.

[xyzer]

Interesting point Rick!

It does nothing to supprt the assertion that preemption is anything but the action of an imperial bully.

What backs up your assertion that preemptive action was done for bullying purposes..other than your own distorted views of actions and consequences.

To some of us, preemption(though I don't agree with the Iraq preemption) was a valid alternative to the failed policy of passivity during the Clinton years. It went.."Talk loudly and carry a little stick"! Result an emboldened bunch of terorists who ramped up their destructive attacks on the innocents.

Bush and his so called neocons reacted to the latest murderous attack, 9/11, by intensifying the intelligence war and shoring up ouir defenses for the scourge of terrorism They also sought another alternative ...attacking those who would harbor terrorists and create the political instability thats seems to breed terrorists. Hence the Iraq thing was IMNSHO not a bullying thing, it was designed to attack the seeds of terrorism, and a disruptive country that was at least indirectly involved.A country that was firing on our miltary aircraft, refusing UN arms inspections and ignoring the covenents of its peace agreement over the Kuwait invasion plus repiorted to have been paying the families of suicide bombers and allowing terrorists to meet and train within its borders.
Afghanistan was the first choice, next choice Iraq. Sure the cost has been high but there is definitely a deterrent effect..see Pakistan, Libyia, Egypt. Lebenon. Kuwait, even Saudi arabia is cooperating.

And ...No more terrorist attacks on the US or its territories!

[RickSp]

Preemption can only be the policy of an imperial bully. Preemption, at least as practiced by the Bush cabal, is invariably used by the strong against the weak. It is less a policy than an excuse. Iraq was not invaded inorder to preempt an attack against us. Iraq was never an immiment threat. Most in the world knew as much. From what we are learning about the White House Iraq Group, the Bush administration knew full well that teh claims about Iraq WMD were lies.

The use of 9/11 as a justification to invade Iraq is absolutely ridiculous and endless repetition adds nothing. Unlike Iran, Pakistan, or Saudi Arabia, Iraq was never a significant harborer of terrorsits. Of course, the invasion and occupation of Iraq has made it just that. Attacking Iraq was a gift to Osama Bin Laden and all jihadis. To use their terminology, the crusaders now occupy the heart of Islam and all true jihadis should rise to fight. This is what preemption has gotten us - tens of thousands of dead or wounded American soldiers, a deepening quagmire and a fertile training ground for future terror.

[Zealot]

Quote by: Autolykos Zealot, neither of your two subsequent pastes from Mr. Will's article have said anything new, in my opinion. So I ask again: how do you justify preemptive war? - Rob

NEW????
Of course nothing is new under the sun, be he just repeated what others have learned and are trying to teach us. He has presented to us what needs to be done from past experience. For you to add credibilty to your questions, doubt and know how, you need to present a plan that has been successful in the past and show us this better way you profess, ok?
In other words, don't knock it if you can't better it!

[Boetie]

George Will from what I understand stole Jimmy Carter's debate papers, coached Regan and then told America what a great debater Regan is. And now this George Will steals The following phrase "Today we are the legatees of all the giants on whose shoulders we stand" for the sole purpose of twisting it for his own twisted rational and justification for pre-emptive strike.

George hasn't done anything in his life but spew out baloney. He will be a forgotten nothing centuries from now while Issac Newton will still be remembered and Issac also used the phrase "Today we are the legatees of all the giants on whose shoulders we stand" And if anyone really knew about the phrase it certainly wouldn't be flattery to George Will the conservascum shill.

[Zealot]

Quote by: Boetie George Will from what I understand stole Jimmy Carter's debate papers, coached Regan and then told America what a great debater Regan is. And now this George Will steals The following phrase "Today we are the legatees of all the giants on whose shoulders we stand" for the sole purpose of twisting it for his own twisted rational and justification for pre-emptive strike. George hasn't done anything in his life but spew out baloney. He will be a forgotten nothing centuries from now while Issac Newton will still be remembered and Issac also used the phrase "Today we are the legatees of all the giants on whose shoulders we stand" And if anyone really knew about the phrase it certainly wouldn't be flattery to George Will the conservascum shill.

SO?
And what will you be remembered for?

[Autolykos]

Quote by: Zealot NEW???? Of course nothing is new under the sun, be he just repeated what others have learned and are trying to teach us. He has presented to us what needs to be done from past experience. For you to add credibilty to your questions, doubt and know how, you need to present a plan that has been successful in the past and show us this better way you profess, ok? In other words, don't knock it if you can't better it!

There is, in my opinion, obviously a better way: for the US to withdraw all troops from foreign soil and withdraw from all entangling alliances (including the UN and NATO).

- Rob

[Boetie]

Zealot posts SO? And what will you be remembered for?

First of all lets take the first part of your post which is "SO?" this is in response to my post exposing the lying hack George Will is. Your "SO?" means you approve of George Will deceiving the public, a sad comment on your part. The second part of your post, "And what will you be remembered for?" I will answer with this, I haven't intentionally caused other people heartaches and grief which is what conservascums are good at, remember the "compassionate conservative" slogan? the word compassionate and conservative do not even mix, it was a campaign slogan to bullshit the people, when in reality the conservatives could care less about anyone but themselves. If war means profit they will go to war for profit but use lies like, war for freedom, war for liberty, war for blah blah blah. The biggest hawks are the biggest chickens and conservatives go figure.