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Mathieu · Mar 1, 2004, 03:08 am

Leopard, I know there is as many definition of libertarianism as there is libertarian so let's just say that the one we talk here have a governement and laws.

Should it allow their citizen to make profit of interventionism ?
(independently of it is happening now)

Then it is the dictature of the richest ? Where is the individual liberties in a World where the richest can then just hire thugs and keep himself rich without working for it ?

Should your governement participate to that, should it be allowed to do so ?

Mathieu · Mar 1, 2004, 03:19 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)

it is not a dodge...

the american government has no jurisdiction to prevent it...

(here in america they can, but in other countries, the us is moot)<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Well I must agree they can't "really" prevent it, but they can legiferate to limit it .

I remember Canadian governement had voted some laws limiting the possible duties these companies can acheive. These company can still operate in others country, but they won't be able to be a "Canadian" enterprise ...

But then , as an example, if Americans company had rent the service of mercs to Saddam Hussein in Iraq war 2 , and was making profit of it,in US, What do you think Us governement should have done ?

Packratt · Mar 1, 2004, 06:11 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Leopard,)
matheiu,
Should american governement allow the enterprise to do mercenaries work in these condition ?

I mean in the real world , where there is a governement and their is law , not a libertarian utopia.

there is no 'utopia', libertarian or otherwise...

BTW: libertarianism believes in having a government and most definitely law - perhaps your problem with libertarianism is that you are mis-informed about it, you are free to ask any questions and i will answer to the best of my knowledge.

----

in the 'real world'...

the government hires foreign nationals...
people hire 'bodyguards'...
our government sends the military to protect private corporate interests...

these are all mercenary in nature and all currently occur<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

See, here's a guy who proclaims free trade is great because business NEVER does anything wrong, supposedly unlike government, and thuse they should also have their own free standing armies since, well by golly they are businesses and won't do anything BAD with them.

Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition?

Oh, maybe that weak government that you don't pay any taxes to and who doesn't have it's own military will protect you from market domination. :rolleyes:

tman_ndsu08 · Mar 1, 2004, 12:27 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition? <hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Free choice from consumers. If the prices are too high they'l just buy from someone else.

Just drop all the BS about businesses hiring their own armies. It costs too much money! They will have no need for them anyway, all deals are done with a pen and paper.

Leopard · Mar 1, 2004, 12:52 pm

Packratt:
See, here's a guy who proclaims free trade is great because business NEVER does anything wrong, supposedly unlike government, and thuse they should also have their own free standing armies since, well by golly they are businesses and won't do anything BAD with them.

never claimed that businesses don't ever do anything wrong - the difference is that businesses do not have the power to force their customers to do anything. Look, here is the 'crux' of it all - there are bad people in the world, and most everyone acts in their own self-interest. So, since this is fact, isn't it better to restrict the amount of power that these 'bad' folks have over our lives.

Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition?

other businesses and customers prevent this from happening. IF, by some wierd reversal of economic law, a business did form an army, and use that army to force people to buy its products (can hardly say this with a straight face, it is soooo 'out there'), then that business just crossed the definition of... GOVERNMENT! And we are right back to where we started from...

eburchelli · Mar 1, 2004, 02:22 pm

I don't know much about mercenaries. How about if they were licensed much like a private dectective or a social worker? I don't know if that would give them a license to kill though. Probably not. Working underground they probably have an advantage in some circumstances, much like snitches or informants are to police.

Leopard · Mar 1, 2004, 02:51 pm

ick, licensing...

dotcoma · Mar 1, 2004, 03:09 pm

This isn't an issue. If the government wants you dead YOUR DEAD. Legal, illegal, kind of legal...doesn't matter, if you become a problem you will die. We will train one guy to blow up a car bomb or a whole battalion of baby-killers to wipe out your village. Daddy Bush wiped out THOUSANDS of Panamanians to get to ONE GUY who incidentally was on the CIA payroll for many, many years. If we "ban" mercenaries, they will carry out their paramilitary functions with even more secrecy.

castille · Mar 3, 2004, 08:48 am

Mercenary companies do exist - in Sierra Leone, the famous "Two-Toed Men", Nigerian bounty hunters, etc etc.

Also, as a forethought, you can't do anything about it.

So go to Nigeria if you want to make a quick buck. Get yourself a bit of training, learn to kill a little boy without blinking, and there ya go, $30,000 on its way (yes, mercs dont get paid much really)

Also, I do know ONE company that uses mercenaries; the company is called "The Nigerian Government"

Mar 1, 2004, 03:19 am	#22 (permalink) (top)
Mathieu Igneous Magma Location: Montreal Posts: 216	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,) it is not a dodge... the american government has no jurisdiction to prevent it... (here in america they can, but in other countries, the us is moot)<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Well I must agree they can't "really" prevent it, but they can legiferate to limit it . I remember Canadian governement had voted some laws limiting the possible duties these companies can acheive. These company can still operate in others country, but they won't be able to be a "Canadian" enterprise ... But then , as an example, if Americans company had rent the service of mercs to Saddam Hussein in Iraq war 2 , and was making profit of it,in US, What do you think Us governement should have done ?

Mar 1, 2004, 06:11 am	#23 (permalink) (top)
Packratt Molten Ash Location: Crimetown USA Posts: 130	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Leopard,) matheiu, Should american governement allow the enterprise to do mercenaries work in these condition ? I mean in the real world , where there is a governement and their is law , not a libertarian utopia. there is no 'utopia', libertarian or otherwise... BTW: libertarianism believes in having a government and most definitely law - perhaps your problem with libertarianism is that you are mis-informed about it, you are free to ask any questions and i will answer to the best of my knowledge. ---- in the 'real world'... the government hires foreign nationals... people hire 'bodyguards'... our government sends the military to protect private corporate interests... these are all mercenary in nature and all currently occur<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> See, here's a guy who proclaims free trade is great because business NEVER does anything wrong, supposedly unlike government, and thuse they should also have their own free standing armies since, well by golly they are businesses and won't do anything BAD with them. Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition? Oh, maybe that weak government that you don't pay any taxes to and who doesn't have it's own military will protect you from market domination. :rolleyes: "...the worker's liberty... is only a theoretical freedom, lacking any means for its possible realisation, and consequently it is only a fictitious liberty, an utter falsehood. -Bakunin

Mar 1, 2004, 12:27 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition? <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Free choice from consumers. If the prices are too high they'l just buy from someone else. Just drop all the BS about businesses hiring their own armies. It costs too much money! They will have no need for them anyway, all deals are done with a pen and paper.

Mar 1, 2004, 12:52 pm	#25 (permalink) (top)
Leopard Propertarian Posts: 568	Packratt: See, here's a guy who proclaims free trade is great because business NEVER does anything wrong, supposedly unlike government, and thuse they should also have their own free standing armies since, well by golly they are businesses and won't do anything BAD with them. never claimed that businesses don't ever do anything wrong - the difference is that businesses do not have the power to force their customers to do anything. Look, here is the 'crux' of it all - there are bad people in the world, and most everyone acts in their own self-interest. So, since this is fact, isn't it better to restrict the amount of power that these 'bad' folks have over our lives. Well, what is to prevent a monopolistic or oligopolistic business that is able to charge outrageous rates for goods due to the cornering on the market from using that army to enforce the protection of their market from any competition? other businesses and customers prevent this from happening. IF, by some wierd reversal of economic law, a business did form an army, and use that army to force people to buy its products (can hardly say this with a straight face, it is soooo 'out there'), then that business just crossed the definition of... GOVERNMENT! And we are right back to where we started from... Take on the responsibility to be free

Mar 1, 2004, 02:51 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
Leopard Propertarian Posts: 568	ick, licensing... Take on the responsibility to be free

Mar 1, 2004, 03:08 am	#21 (permalink) (top)
Mathieu Igneous Magma Location: Montreal Posts: 216	Leopard, I know there is as many definition of libertarianism as there is libertarian so let's just say that the one we talk here have a governement and laws. Should it allow their citizen to make profit of interventionism ? (independently of it is happening now) Then it is the dictature of the richest ? Where is the individual liberties in a World where the richest can then just hire thugs and keep himself rich without working for it ? Should your governement participate to that, should it be allowed to do so ?

Mar 1, 2004, 02:22 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
eburchelli Molten Ash Posts: 106	I don't know much about mercenaries. How about if they were licensed much like a private dectective or a social worker? I don't know if that would give them a license to kill though. Probably not. Working underground they probably have an advantage in some circumstances, much like snitches or informants are to police.

Mar 1, 2004, 03:09 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
dotcoma Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,154	This isn't an issue. If the government wants you dead YOUR DEAD. Legal, illegal, kind of legal...doesn't matter, if you become a problem you will die. We will train one guy to blow up a car bomb or a whole battalion of baby-killers to wipe out your village. Daddy Bush wiped out THOUSANDS of Panamanians to get to ONE GUY who incidentally was on the CIA payroll for many, many years. If we "ban" mercenaries, they will carry out their paramilitary functions with even more secrecy.

Mar 3, 2004, 08:48 am	#29 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Mercenary companies do exist - in Sierra Leone, the famous "Two-Toed Men", Nigerian bounty hunters, etc etc. Also, as a forethought, you can't do anything about it. So go to Nigeria if you want to make a quick buck. Get yourself a bit of training, learn to kill a little boy without blinking, and there ya go, $30,000 on its way (yes, mercs dont get paid much really) Also, I do know ONE company that uses mercenaries; the company is called "The Nigerian Government" Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.