Mcdonalds is moving up in the world

[Sean]

In the New Economics: Fast-Food Factories?
Is cooking a hamburger patty and inserting the meat, lettuce and ketchup inside a bun a manufacturing job, like assembling automobiles?

That question is posed in the new Economic Report of the President, a thick annual compendium of observations and statistics on the health of the United States economy.

The latest edition, sent to Congress last week, questions whether fast-food restaurants should continue to be counted as part of the service sector or should be reclassified as manufacturers. No answers were offered.

Source: NY Times
-----

The whole article can be found in the above link. I find this absurd, and really how dumb does this administration think we are? Think about the possibilities of this silly concept. If it actually happens we'll see leaders on television telling us about all of these new manufacturing jobs in the US :rolleyes:

What's you reaction?

[Pooeypants]

Meh wouldn't surprise me what McDonalds will do to lower labour costs and get more profit.

[Impenitent]

it's cheaper to produce things outside of the country...

you can thank your labor unions and regressive democrat tax policies for making it far too expensive for business to produce goods here... just imagine the cost to produce anything here if kyoto was passed...

[Mathieu]

Well Reps should be happy ! Outsourcing is good , they said ...

[RebelWithanAK]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
it's cheaper to produce things outside of the country...

you can thank your labor unions and regressive democRAT tax policies for making it far too expensive for business to produce goods here... just imagine the cost to produce anything here if kyoto was passed...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>Logical fallacy: 'Cheaper to produce elsewhere' is not the same as 'too expensive to produce here.' You're applying a statement's affirmation to its converse.

[Impenitent]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
it's cheaper to produce things outside of the country...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

you can thank your labor unions and regressive democRAT tax policies for making it far too expensive for business to produce goods here... just imagine the cost to produce anything here if kyoto was passed...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>Logical fallacy: 'Cheaper to produce elsewhere' is not the same as 'too expensive to produce here.' You're applying a statement's affirmation to its converse.

from the fact that it is less expensive to produce outside of the country, it follows that it is more expensive to produce inside the country...

it is not a fallacy because I did not apply a "statement's affirmation to its converse"... if I had applied a "statement's affirmation to its converse" it would have been along the lines, "it is less expensive to produce here because of labor unions and regressive tax policies"

[tman_ndsu08]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Pooeypants,)
Meh wouldn't surprise me what McDonalds will do to lower labour costs and get more profit.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

maximizing profit...ha! why would any company attempt that?

as far as labor...

labor is nothing more than people who sell their services to employeers. If you want a higher price for your service then you'll have to wait until their is more demand for your service or the supply goes down.

[tman_ndsu08]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Impenitent,)
it's cheaper to produce things outside of the country...

you can thank your labor unions and regressive democRAT tax policies for making it far too expensive for business to produce goods here... just imagine the cost to produce anything here if kyoto was passed...<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>Logical fallacy: 'Cheaper to produce elsewhere' is not the same as 'too expensive to produce here.' You're applying a statement's affirmation to its converse.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

it would only be cheaper to produce something everywhere else IF AND ONLY IF it is too expensive to produce something here.

[Sean]

What ever happened to consumer loyalty? They seem to do it in Japan. I think we should make huge made in America stickers for all products made here. I think it'd make some (note I said some) people reconsider some of their purchases.

[tman_ndsu08]

Sean...this is already done.

Almost ALL electronics device are manufactured in Asia. So are you now not going to use any of your electronics because they're built with foreign parts?

[Mathieu]

It is hard to make understand to a consumer that when he choose to go to Wall-mart, or whatever the place, and buy a product made in China,there is an impact . It is not very tangible in comparaison of a 30% lower price ...

[bugsbunny04]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)


it would only be cheaper to produce something everywhere else IF AND ONLY IF it is too expensive to produce something here.

<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

It would also be cheaper to produce something elsewhere if it were simply more expensive here, even if producing it here were not completely cost prohibitive.

Example: Is it cheaper to produce cars in Japan or Korea than in the US? Yes. Is producing cars in the US cost prohibitive? No, because three companies are doing it now with about two dozen or so divisions within themselves. It used to be four until AMC was broken up and peices sold to two of the others (I geuss if you only produce two comercial models which are very special purpose, and there are more used ones than new ones, and only have a govt. contract for one product, you could have a problem due to lack of diversification.) The point is, we have had up to four companies producing cars over here, even if it is cheaper to produce them elsewhere. And the number being down to four has nothing to do with it being to expensive to produce stuff here, they just did'nt have a broad enough market appeal. They failed 12th grade economics, but they did'nt lose because it is cost prohibitive to produce stuff over here, and it seems that Daimler-Chrysler and General Motors have taken over the selling of the same products, under the Jeep and Hummer brands respectively, and made a big pile of money, because they have been able to integrate designs with things they already mass produce anyway.

Why are we even discussing this on this thread? It has nothing to do with the topic.

[bugsbunny04]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sean,)


What ever happened to consumer loyalty? They seem to do it in Japan. I think we should make huge made in America stickers for all products made here. I think it'd make some (note I said some) people reconsider some of their purchases.

<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Consumer loyalty? Yeah, I like that. For example, the only way my name goes on the title of a non general motors passenger vehicle (truck, car ect.) is if I win it in some contest, or spank the previous owners ass over a 1/4 mile in a very trick 1st or 3rd Gen. Camaro. In either case, it will be at the end of my driveway with a "for sale" sign in the window, I won't keep it.

If I end up with a non Polaris ATV, it will get sold, quickly.

If I ever ride a motor cycle, it will be a Harley-Davidson.

Piss on a Honda.

[toofgib]

If flipping burgers is designated as a manufacturing job, then shouldn't all those kids be making about $20 an hour?

[RebelWithanAK]

And have health insurance and a pension plan?

[Packratt]

The most interesting question to ask is that if they are now manufacturing workers, shouldn't they be allowed to form unions without interference from their employer if it is their desire to do so?

Ah, I can see it now, the Burger Manufacturers Local #503.

[Kyran]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Sean,)
The whole article can be found in the above link. I find this absurd, and really how dumb does this administration think we are? Think about the possibilities of this silly concept. If it actually happens we'll see leaders on television telling us about all of these new manufacturing jobs in the US.

What's your reaction?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Well the Prez is wrong. Flipping burgers does not manufacture them; butchering cows manufactures burgers. I agree that this re-classification would distort the numbers in our industrial & commercial reports. What good does the White House administration see in this action?

Tman, Math, Bugs, and Rebel, listen up a sec. The cost of production can be lower for businessmen in foreign places. First examine the three primary factors.

1. Cost of product
--Industry-specific taxes increase the cost of a product directly. Tobacco taxes, gas taxes, and other such common taxes reflect this.

2. Cost of labor
--Minimum wage laws, overtime pay, workman's comp, and social security increase the cost of labor.

3. Cost of transportation
--Owner-operators must charge enough to turn a profit; and must be able to afford the maintenance & repair of their vehicles. When the products and services they need increase in cost, the total cost of transportation increases.

Review other countries. Verify whether the same government-created cost increases are in use or not. Look at China.

Consumers are loyal to the lowest price. If China can sell us cheaper goods than we can manufacture, they own our market (of those products). Therefore, it is in our economic interests to remove all government-created cost increases. Producing goods here is not cost-prohibitive, but it isn't cost-advantageous either. That's why Wal-Mart sells Asian goods. Remember when Wal-Mart advertised all their products as American-Made?

Whoever produces the products and services is also producing the jobs. Do we want the Chinese to have a market advantage over us?

Political factions refuse to address these points. Republicans think they can use tariffs to get our jobs back while Democrats don't want any of their "worker's rights" regulations overturned. I think we need to remove all the government interference already, and those interested in "worker's rights" should look for a new way to implement them.

Btw, don't mind trailing into this sub-topic. It's the bigger picture of our economy. We can punch holes in absurd media and dumb government all day long. A healthy discussion on economics is good for the mind.

[mlingley]

In no way should fast food jobs be considered manufacturing jobs. They aren't the same at all. Manufacturing jobs in my area (East Central Illinois) are disappearing like crazy. The places that are hiring are only paying 7 or 8 bucks an hour. People can't support a family making those kind of wages.

I was thinking about how no electronics are made in the United States anymore. If I had a bunch of capital I'd start a company that was strictly made in the U.S. I think alot of American's would be willing to spend more money on a product that they knew was made in the United States because that is important to alot of people. If somebody did do that they could market the crap out of the "Made in America" angle and make a profit I'm sure. As long as you were making a quality product, I believe people would pay a little extra to keep the profits and the jobs in the United States. Seems like the market is there for it.

[Packratt]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Kyran)

Consumers are loyal to the lowest price. If China can sell us cheaper goods than we can manufacture, they own our market (of those products). Therefore, it is in our economic interests to remove all government-created cost increases. Producing goods here is not cost-prohibitive, but it isn't cost-advantageous either. That's why Wal-Mart sells Asian goods. Remember when Wal-Mart advertised all their products as American-Made?

Whoever produces the products and services is also producing the jobs. Do we want the Chinese to have a market advantage over us?

Political factions refuse to address these points. Republicans think they can use tariffs to get our jobs back while Democrats don't want any of their "worker's rights" regulations overturned. I think we need to remove all the government interference already, and those interested in "worker's rights" should look for a new way to implement them.

Btw, don't mind trailing into this sub-topic. It's the bigger picture of our economy. We can punch holes in absurd media and dumb government all day long. A healthy discussion on economics is good for the mind.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

And what other way do you suggest that worker's rights are protected without government? Unless you want to grant the workers the right to burn down the executive's house and places of business when they are pushed to far I don't see how removing government from the equation is anything but a HORRID solution to the problem that is actually not cause by cost of labor but caused by the INSANE cost of management when one executive pulls in more than 500 workers.

The problem is at the TOP, not the BOTTOM.

[Packratt]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,)
In no way should fast food jobs be considered manufacturing jobs. They aren't the same at all. Manufacturing jobs in my area (East Central Illinois) are disappearing like crazy. The places that are hiring are only paying 7 or 8 bucks an hour. People can't support a family making those kind of wages.

I was thinking about how no electronics are made in the United States anymore. If I had a bunch of capital I'd start a company that was strictly made in the U.S. I think alot of American's would be willing to spend more money on a product that they knew was made in the United States because that is important to alot of people. If somebody did do that they could market the crap out of the "Made in America" angle and make a profit I'm sure. As long as you were making a quality product, I believe people would pay a little extra to keep the profits and the jobs in the United States. Seems like the market is there for it.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

This is perhaps the biggest myth in America today, that there is noplace in the US where labor would be cost effective.

I could show you thousands of places here in the US where the labor would cost less than average but would still be a sustainable wage for the employees. I can show you places where you could build facilities cheaply, where they would be glad to have some investment for once... and here is the real bonus, if you could just keep your top end costs down you could compete toe to toe with India and China so long as you could be happy with a modest profit margin instead of an outrageously unsustainable one.

Like I said, the problem is at the top, not the bottom.