The State of the Union...

[admiraladz]

I couldn't find anywhere to post this that didn't take the thread off-topic so I have decided (against my better judgment) to start a new thread. I hate doing this because it generally leaves the starter open to a tirade of abusive attacks about their political persuasion, religion, sexuality, race, or socio-economic group. - may i suggest we avoid using loaded phrases like "Bush" or "war on terror" etc to avoid having the same argument that is in ALL the other political forums?

****disclaimer****My opinion is only my opinion therefore it is neither factually correct or incorrect- you do have a right to disagree, but please do it coherently. I have lived both in the UK and NC USA. I like to think UK & USA are two cultures divided by a common language. Once we learn that we have fundamental differences that are irreconcilable, then we will be able to come together on the issues on which we agree. ****

POINT 1
There is over $50bn of damage to the southern states after hurricane Katrina. I would say that was a LOT of money. So if we can all accept that a LOT of property, life and infrastructure has been destroyed what difference would it make that there's $56bn of damage? Not much, so why on earth were police told to shoot looters? Why weren't the police told to converge on locations where food and water were available and 'legally appropriate it' and then provide it to the general population in an orderly and immediate manner?

How many films have we seen where the US cop dives in front of a car, pulls out his badge and shouts "Police business, give me your car!". So why can't they say "Police business, give me your stock of food and water Mr Walmart and then you can claim it all back on your insurance."
(which you know they're going to do ANYWAY!)

POINT 2
The moving of funds from the Lake Pontchartrain project (to reinforce the levee's) to support US foreign policy, in particular the conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the development of better 'big brother' surveillance in the Homeland Security.

I can see a repeat of the post WWI isolationism of the USA and the dramatic political swing to domestic issues on the horizon. From what I recall this was instrumental in the recovery of the USA both politically and economically. It wasn't until the decision to enter WWII after the attack on Pear Harbor that some factions in America once again ran the flag of empire up the pole. Speaking as a Brit I know all the shame there is of empire and colonialism. The British Empire became 'Great' Britian, once we turned away from the Victorian desire to collect all kinds of things (like butterflies, tiger skins, gold, and er ... countries!) and focused our vast collective intellect on solving domestic health, welfare and economic issues.

IMHO the US has a perfect opportunity to say 'sod you all' to the rest of the world and pull out of everything. Return to isolationism and show the rest of the world how much they depended upon you and maybe they will learn a little humility. BUT most importantly it will give the USA its first 'breather' or 'break' in world policing since the second world war. That's a long shift for any country.

Now I know that might sound 'out-of-order' or callous, but if Americans are sick of feeling attacked on Foreign policy that they rightly have to justify to the rest of the world, why not return to domestic policy which no other country has any right to dictate (they can spectate and shout abuse, but you don't have to listen - that's the point).

There is also the bonus that pulling US military support out of oil producing countries will mean that the oil companies no longer have any say over what the american military should be doing. In fact the oil companies will have to be REAL nice to the US people in order to secure even a percentage of their current protection.

...and before you all go attacking me saying I want US troops out of Korea and all kinds of other places where their presence is actively preventing violence, I remind you that unrest in Korea does not affect you at home in the US or any of your constitutional rights, so why care? the USA is trying to help people who are biting the hand feeding them. So why not let them feel the hunger pangs for a while? Leave them to search the horizon with a puzzled look while they try to figure out why the Americans aren't there yet with the food and blankets.

Oh and btw if there was a concerted effort to split oil and government you'd discover that the US holds patents to some of the best and most effective non-fossil based fuel technologies - start developing them now and you can officially tell the whole Arab world to 'shove it'. In fact you could provide free renewable electricity to the world, prevent the monopolies of oil and effectively end any reason for dialogue between the west and middle-east - build another wall if u like.

POINT 3
related, but not, ... societal values in the USA still echo the 1980's 'me' generation because it was followed by the apathetic 'mtv' generation and the totally uninterested 'generation x-box'. WHAT THE HELL is going on in New Orleans?

It is said that any civilisation is only 3 missed meals away from anarchy. I was surprised to learn this is true.

The world reaction and posts I have seen here have certainly changed my view about the world. I suppose one of the things that has changed for many Americans I have talked to is the sudden understanding of how little compassion the rest of the world has.

Some say "A country with this level of poverty and racial divide should not continue to sell itself - some would say arrogantly - as a model to the rest of the world. A more humble voice is now required to reflect acknowledgement that this model has some stark and serious flaws."

Perhaps the scales have been lifted from the eyes of the American people. Now they are free to see and reflect on the true nature of their society and Government.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4214746.stm

Jenny Sachs, of Sheffield [UK], told how soldiers had to smuggle her out of the Superdome in secret. She was one of about 30 Britons who, realising they could not escape the city, had fled to the stadium for shelter. She said people had been raped and that others were beaten up. "A guy was brought in who had seven stab wounds and was covered in blood." The military told all non-US citizens to stay together for safety, Ms Sachs added. They later told them they would be secretly smuggled out in groups of 10 under cover of darkness as it had become too dangerous for them to remain in the stadium, she told BBC News.

Why, in a country of racial and religious tolerance are people from other cultures told to stick together? The REST OF THE WORLD and the US. It is this mentality that will force America to make very grave foreign policy decisions in an attempt to 'prove' itself to a raft of countries who all believe different things. You really CAN'T please all of the people, so don't try. Be yourselves and be proud of it, or you may as well adopt another culture!?!? The Swedes have a pretty good one (if you don't mind 60% tax and a secret history of genocide post WWII).

Radio Merseyside presenter Mike Brocken, from Chester, "We were going to go inside the Superdome. I approached two members of the National Guard and they said to stay outside because they knew it was hell in there." "Everyone talks about the National Guard in rather derogatory ways historically, but I've got to say that but for them, and one man in particular, I may well have lost my family."

Without the national guard to protect civil rights there could well have been (and still may be) a major international incident concerning the very moral fabric of American society. The argument used against the US by muslim-fundamentalists, and reinforced by the disastrous immoral events in a certain Iraqi prison.

Jamie Trout, 22, of Sunderland, told BBC News the five "horrific" days he and his two female friends had spent in the Superdome, before being freed by the US National Guard, had been "like something out of Lord of the Flies". "It was very dangerous - rioting, looting of vending machines, racial abuse, absolutely terrible sanitary conditions." The girls were terrified to go to the toilet and the group had heard a child had been raped and found in the toilets with a broken neck. "That was a really hard time. It made us all feel sick."

"I saw between 50 and 100 people fighting over a bottle of Coca Cola."

Former Royal Marine Darryl Hill - "This far outweighs anything I saw when I was with the British forces in various hostile areas," he told BBC Radio 4's PM. Mr Hill said some of what he had seen was "so raw and heart-touching it is hard to describe and hard to live with. I saw a young lady, she had just given birth and she had to carry her new-born over her head. The water was up to her breasts and she was just walking through the water, crying for help."

Is enough finally enough? Can we stop squabbling over the character flaws of our leaders or each other and find the common ground again? Can we not work together any more? Can't we all just get along?

I'd like to hear some emotive responses because political ones will always be biased or flawed.

[ibm]

i see many reasonable points in your post. but could be a bit clearer, in that how's it related to "the state of the union"? you lost me there.

[jose]

signs that said ¨you loot i shoot¨ now they have to abandon it all anyway

[admiraladz]

well that was worth it wasn't it!

bye all