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PatrickHenry · Sep 9, 2005, 10:24 pm

Talibani: US puppet.

What do expect him to say, Dieval?

Get out of my country? That doesn't do anything for his health. When the US is gone, though, his countrymen will string him up. Just like what happenned to Najibullah in Afghanistan

Clarence · Sep 10, 2005, 12:25 am

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

Talibani: US puppet.

What do expect him to say, Dieval?

Get out of my country? That doesn't do anything for his health. When the US is gone, though, his countrymen will string him up. Just like what happenned to Najibullah in Afghanistan

He's been awfully helpful

PatrickHenry · Sep 10, 2005, 01:15 am

Talibani may be able to find sanctuary in an independent Kurdistan in the near future. But he is certainly no friend of the average Iraqi. Just another US client. Not fooling anybody that his words are independent thoughts.

Clarence · Sep 10, 2005, 02:07 am

too many are selling themselves out.

rmnunez · Sep 10, 2005, 02:23 am

bishop, checked the link, the table on the first page with the 4 time periods shows in the first period (from intervention to Bush's famous "victory" speech on Mayday 2003) 173 Coalitioneers were killed in 43 days averaging 4.02/day; in the second time frame (until sovereignty formally restored to Iraq June 28, 2004) 803 Coalitioneers were killed in 424 days averaging 1.89/day; for the third time period (until the elections) 632 Coalitioneers were killed in 216 days averaging 2.93/day; finally, in the last time frame (since the elections) 483 Coalitioneers were killed in 223 days averaging 2.17/day. The average of these averages 2.31 casualties per day since the onset.

Thus, the toll remains around 2 per day.

Dieval · Sep 10, 2005, 02:47 am

Quote:

Quote by: PatrickHenry

Talibani: US puppet.

What do expect him to say, Dieval?

Get out of my country? That doesn't do anything for his health. When the US is gone, though, his countrymen will string him up. Just like what happenned to Najibullah in Afghanistan

Wow, you mean the people in Afghanistan didn't like their communist ruler? Huh, go figure...I'm sure he tried his best to do what was right for his country and to create a constitution where everyone was free and equal under the law, just like in Iraq...right? :rolleyes:

Come on, comparrisons like that are a waste of everyones time..

Dieval · Sep 10, 2005, 02:48 am

Quote:

Quote by: Clarence

He's been awfully helpful

From your link -

Quote:

Al-Talibani added that, contrary to certain rumors, the American army will be welcomed in Iraq's Kurdistan.

You mean there were actual people in Iraq that WELCOMED the US?!?!? Say it isn't so....
:rolleyes:

RickSp · Sep 10, 2005, 11:57 am

A SECOND FALLUJAH?

For the second time in two years the US is mounting an offensive against Tal Afar. The US has forced most of the 200,000 residents out into the desert and is now fighting it out with the insurgents that they claimed they cleaned out a year ago. The US has effectively lost control of the northern Iraqi region around Tel Afar and Qaim.

Iraqi and U.S. Forces Launch Offensive on Insurgent Stronghold

Quote:

In the Tal Afar offensive, which had been expected for weeks, coalition forces faced several hundred lightly armed insurgents in the largely deserted city, 260 miles northwest of Baghdad and about 60 miles east of the Syrian border.

There was heavy gunfire in the Sarai district, the oldest part of the city and the major insurgent stronghold.

''I can see why the terrorists chose this place for a fight, it's like a big funnel of death,'' Sgt. William Haslett of Rocklin, Calif., said of the twisting streets and alleys in the old city.

Expect US military deaths to cross the 2,000 mark this week.

Dieval · Sep 10, 2005, 05:51 pm

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

A SECOND FALLUJAH?

For the second time in two years the US is mounting an offensive against Tal Afar. The US has forced most of the 200,000 residents out into the desert and is now fighting it out with the insurgents that they claimed they cleaned out a year ago. The US has effectively lost control of the northern Iraqi region around Tel Afar and Qaim.

Iraqi and U.S. Forces Launch Offensive on Insurgent Stronghold

Expect US military deaths to cross the 2,000 mark this week.

I'm just curious as to why only 1 line(the last line) of your quote was actually in the the link you posted?

rmnunez · Sep 12, 2005, 06:09 pm

(from that link)

Quote:

Iraq's prime minister toured the ancient northern city of Tal Afar on Monday -ignoring an alleged al-Qaida threat to strike with chemical weapons

This suggests to me Al Qaeda is claiming to be in possession of WMDs, which could make them eligible for pre-emptive US nuclear targetting if Rumsfeld signs the new nuclear doctrine under consideration.

Quote:

Al-Iraqiya television, which showed no pictures, said Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari was in the Tal Afar area despite an insurgent threat to unleash chemical and biological weapons against the force of 5,000 Iraqi soldiers and commandos, backed by 3,500 troops from the U.S. 3rd Armored Cavalry regiment, who stormed into the city Saturday. The offensive ''was a great shock to al-Qaida. They were thrown off balance and issued this threat. We will be on the lookout,'' Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said at a news conference. Militant positions were found mainly deserted Sunday, and the invading force discovered a network of tunnels below the city through which the insurgents were believed to have fled to the surrounding countryside. The offensive, however, exacted a heavy toll on the insurgents, leaving almost 200 suspected militants dead and more than 315 captured, Iraqi military officials said. Forty insurgents were killed in fierce clashes between militants and Iraqi troops who raided suspected hideouts late Monday afternoon. The raids were launched in response to a roadside bombing that targeted an Iraqi patrol earlier in the day, killing one soldier and wounding three, said Capt. Mohammed Ahmed, an Iraqi army spokesman in Tal Afar. Ahmed said 27 militants were arrested. Before the afternoon clash, Brig. Gen. Abdul Aziz Mohammed-Jassim had said 157 suspected insurgents were killed in clashes with Iraqi forces over the course of the operation. He said 292 militants were arrested. In all, at least six Iraqi soldiers and six civilians died in the fighting, he said.

Sounds like a rather successful exercise and only half a dozen civilians killed. Elsewhere they note 90% of the town's population fled in advance to a "tent city" setup nearby where apparently medical services are inadequate.

RickSp · Sep 12, 2005, 06:34 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Dieval

I'm just curious as to why only 1 line(the last line) of your quote was actually in the the link you posted?

The New York Times updates their news stories.

RickSp · Sep 12, 2005, 06:37 pm

Most of the insurgents apparently fled. If you consider that a successful operation, that is up to you. This is either the second or third time that Tal Afar has been taken. The Iraqis claim they will hold it this time, just like last time.

rmnunez · Sep 12, 2005, 10:35 pm

Its the second time around and the Iraqi officer said they'd killed a couple hundred, took lots of captives too. Sounds to me like the foreign terrorists fled and the local insurgents got mopped up.

RickSp · Sep 12, 2005, 10:40 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rmnunez

Its the second time around and the Iraqi officer said they'd killed a copule hundred, took lots of captives too. Sounds to me like the foreign terrorists fled and the local insurgents got mopped up.

About what the US and Iraqis said last time too.

rmnunez · Sep 12, 2005, 10:57 pm

Eventually all the insurgents will get mopped up and the foreign terrorists will all flee to someplace more remote.

RickSp · Sep 12, 2005, 11:08 pm

Quote:

Quote by: rmnunez

Eventually all the insurgents will get mopped up and the foreign terrorists will all flee to someplace more remote.

Really? The military estimates that the insurgency is staying constant, which probably means that it is growing. They are recruiting fighters at least as fast as we kill them. And why not? An infidel army is occuying the heart of Islam. Not a bad recruiting slogan.

A similar call by Pope Urban, "Deus vult!, launched 200 years of bloody crusades in 1095. It appears the neocons and the Islamists have similar intentions.

Dieval · Sep 13, 2005, 05:33 am

Quote:

Quote by: RickSp

The military estimates that the insurgency is staying constant, which probably means that it is growing.

Please show us these military estimates. This sounds like very interesting information.

RickSp · Sep 13, 2005, 10:51 am

Quote:

Quote by: Dieval

Please show us these military estimates. This sounds like very interesting information.

Ok you got me there. The military hasn't made an estimate in about a year. Now they refuse to estimate the size of the insurgency. Wonder what that says?

Of course, 89 American soldiers died in August, the highest death rate in eight months, so one might rule out "last throes",

rmnunez · Sep 13, 2005, 02:47 pm

Estimating the size of the insurgency is difficult but we've been hearing for a long time from the critical left that it is growing, this despite the fact the casualty rate among Coalitioneers has remained fairly constant. Then I'd note how the number of Coalitioneers has remained fairly constant despite the number of their atatcks, so its not clear number of attacks would have any relationship to number of deployed.

There are good reasons to expect the insurgency or terrorism to grow (the outrages against Abu Ghraib captives, wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians, predatory exploitation of natural resources...) but these are compelling to critical lefties, I think the terrorists or insurgents see things differently.

Sep 9, 2005, 10:24 pm	#41 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	Talibani: US puppet. What do expect him to say, Dieval? Get out of my country? That doesn't do anything for his health. When the US is gone, though, his countrymen will string him up. Just like what happenned to Najibullah in Afghanistan "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 10, 2005, 01:15 am	#43 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,455	Talibani may be able to find sanctuary in an independent Kurdistan in the near future. But he is certainly no friend of the average Iraqi. Just another US client. Not fooling anybody that his words are independent thoughts. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams

Sep 12, 2005, 06:37 pm	#52 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,589	Most of the insurgents apparently fled. If you consider that a successful operation, that is up to you. This is either the second or third time that Tal Afar has been taken. The Iraqis claim they will hold it this time, just like last time. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Sep 12, 2005, 10:35 pm	#53 (permalink) (top)
rmnunez Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772	Its the second time around and the Iraqi officer said they'd killed a couple hundred, took lots of captives too. Sounds to me like the foreign terrorists fled and the local insurgents got mopped up. Last edited by rmnunez; Sep 12, 2005 at 10:55 pm.

Sep 10, 2005, 02:07 am	#44 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,419	too many are selling themselves out.

Sep 10, 2005, 02:23 am	#45 (permalink) (top)
rmnunez Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772	bishop, checked the link, the table on the first page with the 4 time periods shows in the first period (from intervention to Bush's famous "victory" speech on Mayday 2003) 173 Coalitioneers were killed in 43 days averaging 4.02/day; in the second time frame (until sovereignty formally restored to Iraq June 28, 2004) 803 Coalitioneers were killed in 424 days averaging 1.89/day; for the third time period (until the elections) 632 Coalitioneers were killed in 216 days averaging 2.93/day; finally, in the last time frame (since the elections) 483 Coalitioneers were killed in 223 days averaging 2.17/day. The average of these averages 2.31 casualties per day since the onset. Thus, the toll remains around 2 per day.

Sep 12, 2005, 10:57 pm	#55 (permalink) (top)
rmnunez Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772	Eventually all the insurgents will get mopped up and the foreign terrorists will all flee to someplace more remote.

Sep 13, 2005, 02:47 pm	#59 (permalink) (top)
rmnunez Volcanic Erupter Location: Mexico City Posts: 4,772	Estimating the size of the insurgency is difficult but we've been hearing for a long time from the critical left that it is growing, this despite the fact the casualty rate among Coalitioneers has remained fairly constant. Then I'd note how the number of Coalitioneers has remained fairly constant despite the number of their atatcks, so its not clear number of attacks would have any relationship to number of deployed. There are good reasons to expect the insurgency or terrorism to grow (the outrages against Abu Ghraib captives, wholesale slaughter of innocent civilians, predatory exploitation of natural resources...) but these are compelling to critical lefties, I think the terrorists or insurgents see things differently.