Should a rich person help a poor person just because they're rich?

[tman_ndsu08]

This is the most obvious and base philosophical question when it comes to politics as the government is nothing more than a machine that takes money away from those who have it and gives it to those who don't.

Do you think that, as a human being, you're obligated buy your wealth to help other humans simply because you have more and they have less?


My answer: no. You should get to keep every red cent that you earn and do with it what you please. That's the ultimate freedom that anyone should expect.

[njlemire87]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 This is the most obvious and base philosophical question when it comes to politics as the government is nothing more than a machine that takes money away from those who have it and gives it to those who don't. Do you think that, as a human being, you're obligated buy your wealth to help other humans simply because you have more and they have less? My answer: no. You should get to keep every red cent that you earn and do with it what you please. That's the ultimate freedom that anyone should expect.

I would have to agree. The constitution gives you the right to seekk happiness, not have it. However, if you make money and you want to hoard it, that is your choice. I think they should help because they are human and American, but thats just me.

[Pale RIder]

You should help because you can. Money has nothing to do with it. Genuine help doesn't always come in the form of the currency of the realm.

[RickSp]

Well duh. A rich person shouldn't help a poor person because they are rich, but perhaps because they are human. Perhaps because they can.

Odd, how you find virtue in parsimony.

[Boetie]

tman_ndsu08 posts ...government is nothing more than a machine that takes money away from those who have it and gives it to those who don't..

Government supports a capitalistic system. A system with the dynamic of make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Say there are two islands, island A and island B.

Island A decides the resources and the land should be distributed and not concetrated in the hands of a few.

Island B decides to put the resources and the land into the hands of a few tribal members. Which results in everyone else starving and uneducated, ie. Haiti

To imply the government of the United States is running under the system of island A is ridiculous. In your dreams it is, in your dreams. This country has killed, murdered, and slaughtered innocent grass root people around the world for doing nothing more than trying to get their government under the system of island A.

[Mia]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 This is the most obvious and base philosophical question when it comes to politics as the government is nothing more than a machine that takes money away from those who have it and gives it to those who don't. Do you think that, as a human being, you're obligated buy your wealth to help other humans simply because you have more and they have less? My answer: no. You should get to keep every red cent that you earn and do with it what you please. That's the ultimate freedom that anyone should expect.

yes.

[RickSp]

The problem with this post is that it is so muddled as to be arguing several different points at once and not clearly at that. The initial question - "should a rich person help a poor person just because they are rich?" is not the same as asking if the government should tax the rich to help the poor.

The answers to the two questions are not necessarily the same. Nor is it a safe bet that the assumption that tax money taken from the rich ever actually makes it to the poor as we have seen with Katrina where the whole mechanism of the Federal government has, by intent or just rank incompetence, specifically ignored the poor and the most in need of help.

[SteveA]

I don't think being rich or poor directly affects anything. You can be poor and help people also, it just happens to be easier when you have more resources to do so. Also, being poor in and of itself doesn't mean needy or deserving of assistance either. It depends on the circumstances.

I think the reason why we have the welfare system is more or less a patch for other issues. There will always be people that need and deserve assistance (hopefully a temporary situation) but it's best as much as possible to leave this as a private matter between the people involved. IRS agents don't do "charity" well.

[amana1man]

First look at wages paid in the USA. Many work for less than 5 bucks an hour. Who do they work for? Those that work for less than min wage work for some wealthy person. How did this person become wealthy. He hired the labor to pick his crop and paid him little. Our government is made of wealthy people who like it when the Mexican crosses the border because here is a $3.00 an hour worker they can hire. That is why it is so damn hard to get the border secure. This is why Bush had a fit when private people were going to patrol the border. As you know the more you make the less tax you pay. You can disagree but you will be wrong. It is the off shore accounts. Its the capital credits. Its the loss and depreciation factors. Too many loop holes created by the wealthy congress men and senators who were elected to serve the John Doe who makes $10.00 an hour.
Someone who has money is often a criminal of some type. I am including people like Martha Stewart as a criminal. I am not talking about the a habitual criminal who does does it for kicks.
So yes I think someone who is wealthy should open his check book and give when disasters happen. Like I said a poor person was the instrument by which most became wealthy.
I feel they should return back some of which they reaped. As a side bar to this I know of many who do not have a high school diploma or are over 50 years old. In this assemblage of people you will find unemployment rate at least double that of an 30 year old with a academic degree or diploma.
Also someone with a medical disability the unemployment rate is somewhere around 70%. Do our government really help those working in factories with all the passing of bills like Americans with disabilities act. I can tell you from real experience that those programs are just a wast of paper. I myself am physically disabled. I found out there is no weight to the rules and regulations which are posted on the wall of your job service place. I filed complaints of harrassment and being asked to do work which I was told by a doctor I could not do. I was told by OSHA and Workforce Development that I would need to hire a private lawyer. No money no lawyer. Walmart was my employer and I seen other employees treated with disrespect. Do I shop at Coralville Iowa Walmart anymore? No I do not. Did I get unemployment when Walmart fired me for missing too much work because of disability. No, they screwed me out of this also because I walked off my job because of the disability. Walmart admitted fireing me but Workforce Development said since I walked off the job they considered this quiting. Anyhow I got sidetracted from main topic but that is the scoop.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 Do you think that, as a human being, you're obligated buy your wealth to help other humans simply because you have more and they have less? My answer: no. You should get to keep every red cent that you earn and do with it what you please. That's the ultimate freedom that anyone should expect.

The question of "obligation" has nothing to do with politics. In fact, if the government is forcibly redistributing wealth already, then the question of "obligation" becomes moot.

[mr.perfecto]

Quote by: Boetie Island B decides to put the resources and the land into the hands of a few tribal members.

This only results in everyone starving when the people who get the lands are fools--which is usually the result of immorality.

The only bad form of government is the one incapable of fulfilling its purpose.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Boetie Government supports a capitalistic system. A system with the dynamic of make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

It's not possible for government to "support" a capitalist system. Capitalism is defined by the noninterference of government, not the presence thereof.

Quote by: Boetie A system with the dynamic of make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

Richer richer, most certainly. Poor poorer? Do you honestly believe that? How do you explain the fact that even the poorest people in America, the world's most robust capitalist society, have a higher standard of living than most of the world's population?

You know, the idea of capitalism making "the poor poorer" is so comically false that I would laugh if it weren't for the fact that so many people actually believe it.

Quote by: Boetie Say there are two islands, island A and island B. Island A decides the resources and the land should be distributed and not concetrated in the hands of a few. Island B decides to put the resources and the land into the hands of a few tribal members. Which results in everyone else starving and uneducated, ie. Haiti

This is a false dichotomy. Neither describes capitalism. Both describe the actions of a corrupt government.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman Capitalism is defined by the noninterference of government, not the presence thereof.

Disagree. Capitalism in its current iteration is designed to oppress workers. The power of big money(Corporatism) is able to create a politics that accomplishes its purpose of increasing the bottom line, at the expense of the commons, workers health and safety, and workers wages. Not to mention hollowing out the manufacturing capability of the nation...

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman How do you explain the fact that even the poorest people in America, the world's most robust capitalist society, have a higher standard of living than most of the world's population?

Uuh... They live on the garbage being discarded by the wealthiest people on the planet? And America prides itself on capitalism, but in fact it is a politics of cronyism and fraud. Observe the looting by Pentagon contractors. Black individuals absconding with a hundredth of one percent of Halliburton's fraud get twenty years. Halliburton gets additional no-bid contracts...

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman the idea of capitalism making "the poor poorer" is so comically false

Maybe you live in an ivory tower where you can't see the process in action. I have done my time in the salt mines for wages good and poor, and you don't really understand the power of capital if you think it is entirely benign, Morgan.

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: amana1man First look at wages paid in the USA. Many work for less than 5 bucks an hour. Who do they work for? Those that work for less than min wage work for some wealthy person. How did this person become wealthy. He hired the labor to pick his crop and paid him little.

I see that you put very little, if any thought into exactly how this "rich person" came to have a crop in the first place. And don't say that his daddy planted it for him because in this country 85% of the rich are first generation rich. THere are those who have a knack for making money and to call them criminals is shortsighted in the extreme. It seems that your prejudiced and cynical attitude precludes you from ever being wealthy and it does so for dishonest reasons. You have deliberately stacked the deck against yourself.

Quote by: amana1man Our government is made of wealthy people who like it when the Mexican crosses the border because here is a $3.00 an hour worker they can hire.

Now this is a prime example of a bold faced lie. I don't know where you live but I live in North Carolina. We have about the highest hispanic growth (legal and illegal) in the country and they aren't coming here for $3.00 per hour. There is a new housing development being built near my home and for the most part, Mexicans are building it. I know this because I know the developer. The roofers, carpenters, and masons don't speak much, if any english, but they are making between 15 and 25 dollars per hour. Most of the contractors were the guys that he hired as roofers, carpenters, and masons abut 5 years back.

Have you noticed that lots of these illegals (and newly legals) are driving around in nice pick up trucks, and nice cars and they aren't wearing rags, and aren't emaciated skeletons? You don't live their lifestyles on 3 bucks an hour. I also see a lot of roadside taco trailers. A few years ago they were widely scattered. Today, if you take the time to look, you will see many more and if you really look, you will see that the names and logos repeat themselves. And if you really really look and pay attention, you will see that those logos repeat themselves again in the mexican restaurants that are springing up in the areal like walmarts.

These "poor taken advantage of" Mexicans are living the American dream. They open a taco stand, and save enough to buy another and another and before you know it, they have a chain. Then they can afford to open a restaurant and hire more people (who are generally new to the country) and the new employees save their money and buy the taco stands from their employers and the cycle continues. Same with the carpenters, road workers, landscapers, and every other field in which you see the poor disadvantaged working. They are coming here not knowing that the deck is stacked against them and because they don't know it, they don't play the game like they have already lost. They are beating you at your own game and aren't even trying.

Quote by: amana1man That is why it is so damn hard to get the border secure. This is why Bush had a fit when private people were going to patrol the border. As you know the more you make the less tax you pay. You can disagree but you will be wrong. It is the off shore accounts. Its the capital credits. Its the loss and depreciation factors. Too many loop holes created by the wealthy congress men and senators who were elected to serve the John Doe who makes $10.00 an hour.

It is hard to keep the border secure because those people smell success up here and they wan't some of it so bad that they are willing to take any chance to get some of it.

Quote by: amana1man Someone who has money is often a criminal of some type. I am including people like Martha Stewart as a criminal. I am not talking about the a habitual criminal who does does it for kicks.

Very sad to be so cynical. I can only feel sorry for you since you, in your own mind, have set yourself up to either fail, or become a criminal.

Quote by: amana1man I feel they should return back some of which they reaped. As a side bar to this I know of many who do not have a high school diploma or are over 50 years old. In this assemblage of people you will find unemployment rate at least double that of an 30 year old with a academic degree or diploma.

It is obvious that you aren't in business for yourself. You clearly don't have a clue that it actually costs money to own a business. You don't just hang a shingle somewhere and sit back and collect the money as it rolls in.

Take a good long, and honest (if you are capable of honesty) at those with no diploma and over 50 years old who aren't making it. If you can be honest, you will see that the bulk of them have made choices in their lives that have landed them exactly where they are. And like you, I bet they are still blaming everyone but the one who is truely responsible. There are so many programs in this country now, that there is no one to but yourself if you don't get a college education these days.

Quote by: amana1man Also someone with a medical disability the unemployment rate is somewhere around 70%. Do our government really help those working in factories with all the passing of bills like Americans with disabilities act. I can tell you from real experience that those programs are just a wast of paper. I myself am physically disabled. I found out there is no weight to the rules and regulations which are posted on the wall of your job service place. I filed complaints of harrassment and being asked to do work which I was told by a doctor I could not do. I was told by OSHA and Workforce Development that I would need to hire a private lawyer. No money no lawyer. Walmart was my employer and I seen other employees treated with disrespect. Do I shop at Coralville Iowa Walmart anymore? No I do not. Did I get unemployment when Walmart fired me for missing too much work because of disability. No, they screwed me out of this also because I walked off my job because of the disability. Walmart admitted fireing me but Workforce Development said since I walked off the job they considered this quiting. Anyhow I got sidetracted from main topic but that is the scoop.

I agree that people who are genuinely disabled should get help if they need it. All to often though, people who are slightly disabled try to game the system and clog it. The president of my college had no legs. Was he disabled? He didn't think so. Sounds to me like you are one of the ones sitting around in your failure blaming everyone but the one who is actually responsible for where you are.

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Disagree. Capitalism in its current iteration is designed to oppress workers. The power of big money(Corporatism) is able to create a politics that accomplishes its purpose of increasing the bottom line, at the expense of the commons, workers health and safety, and workers wages. Not to mention hollowing out the manufacturing capability of the nation...

Except the vast majority of Americans are employed by mom and pop.

[SteveA]

Though I'm a proponent of capitalism, that includes free markets, which we don't really have today. The Halliburton contracts are a perfect example of socialism, in my opinion, and I understand the gripes people have about the current incarnation of things, but don't imagine that what we have is representative of a free market economy. Over half of our economy, from housing to healthcare to the automotive industry etc. is greatly affected by government interference and generally, as Patrick said, this hurts many people but the lower-middle class in particular. Many government costs are attached at a fixed rate to products - property taxes get put off onto tenants, gas taxes, vehicle registration and mandatory insurance are relatively fixed costs that hit rich and poor alike, but with those on the lower end of the economic spectrum feeling it most (that's why welfare came along, I'm pretty sure, to keep people from becoming homeless with these additional costs).

Anyway, I just want to emphasize that we're only partially representative of what capitalism is suppose to represent. Yes, we have government defending property, but the problem is it's beginning to redefine ownership at whim (take the recent Supreme court ruling over provate property, which specifically hits lower income communities by placing the single requirement that such transfers must generate more tax revenue! ... that's almost insulting, a blatant disregard for property rights without even an implied attempt at any form of justice).

So, yes, we likely have some rich people who have become that way through injustices but that doesn't mean that all or even most such people have acquired their wealth forcibly. Most have likely worked to provide something valuable in voluntary exchanges with people and deserve to keep everything they've acquired like this. To deny them this, destroys the incentives people have to work and make a better life for themselves (and indirectly others in the process, if things are done in a voluntary manner).

[Lilith]

I believe in helping others in need. If I was very wealthy, I would help. I'm not wealthy, but come payday, I'm gonna find a worthy organization to donate too to help those people, can anyone recomend one that will ACTUALLY give to those in need? I would like to believe if it was me, then someone would help me out.....

[RVonse]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman Richer richer, most certainly. Poor poorer? Do you honestly believe that? How do you explain the fact that even the poorest people in America, the world's most robust capitalist society, have a higher standard of living than most of the world's population? You know, the idea of capitalism making "the poor poorer" is so comically false that I would laugh if it weren't for the fact that so many people actually believe it. .

I think you are getting caught up in semantics here. When they say "the rich get richer while the poor get poorer", what is being said is that the upper elites are getting super rich and at the same time the lower middle class is slipping into poverty. There are different grades of poor and some of them are still clinging to the middle class.

This is not false or comical. It is happening right now in America if you look around.

[RVonse]

Quote by: Pale RIder . And don't say that his daddy planted it for him because in this country 85% of the rich are first generation rich.

Do you have a source for this? With all due respect I find your statement very hard to believe, it certainly sounds like something you pulled out of your ass.

In the first place, how do you define rich? For example, Bill Gates parents were well off doctors so would you define him to be in this category of first generation rich?

[7 Swildo 7]

I think you should have the freedom to do w/e you want with your money. However if i was a rich man i would def. give some money to help the poeple in New Orleans out. Heck even if i was poor i would give money.