Should a rich person help a poor person just because they're rich?

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman Which is why many such companies voluntarily set up scholarships for promising young potential employees.

You mean there are enough scholarships to cover as many people as we currently have at University? I'm afraid that isn't quite true.

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman That would be where we disagree. Saying morals are "relative" is the same thing as saying they don't exist.

I won't argue anymore, your opinions are set in stone. However, I will say this, morals are an artificial construct, so when you say that it doesn't exist, you are infact correct.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Pooeypants Then why do they choose to live here? They are free to move to other countries.

Why should I move off my own land?

I choose to remain in such a country because most of the alternatives are worse -- even more overbearing and oppressive than our government.

Quote by: Pooeypants The minority isn't suffering because they're being taxed are they? Are you claiming that due to high taxation, people are struggling to feed their kids?

I'm claiming that due to the huge damper the government puts on our economy, people have a harder time hacking it than they naturally would.

But by and large (in the US at least) people aren't "struggling to feed their kids". We've got the fattest "poor" in the world.

Quote by: Pooeypants My guess is you'd suggest applying for a scholarship. Which is fine but those are still very limited compared to government sponsorship.

And there's a very good reason for that. See my earlier comment.

Quote by: Pooeypants Maybe you're afraid of a larger educated society perhaps?

On the contrary, public education has done the best job it possibly could of melting our children's minds.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: YumTum If focus is possibly driven of sucess being in terms of gaining finacial wealth rather a improvement of the greater economy by increasing the countries living standards and education.

I have no clue what that means.

Quote by: YumTum But they were under dictatorships, if there was a intergration of a democratic government system, that would be alot better.

All governments are "democratic" in the sense that the have the consent of at least a majority of the governed, or they would be overthrown.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Mike T Specifically, the rightful owners are now dead. And the state is pretty much interested only in maintaining the status quo.

Agreed. Anyway, these people simply having money does no harm to anyone else.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Pooeypants You mean there are enough scholarships to cover as many people as we currently have at University? I'm afraid that isn't quite true.

No, that's not what I meant. I meant that without government interference, the supply of college degrees will meet the demand for them.

Quote by: Pooeypants I won't argue anymore, your opinions are set in stone. However, I will say this, morals are an artificial construct, so when you say that it doesn't exist, you are infact correct.

If morals don't exist, then you have no basis for any of your arguments.

[YumTum]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman I have no clue what that means.

I guess i talking in idealogy terms where peronal wealth isn't the key to a goog life rather a greater good iniative. There is to much focus on large sums of money making happyness.

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman All governments are "democratic" is the sense that the have the consent of at least a majority of the governed, or they would be overthrown.

But I was talking of ure 2 communist examples

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: YumTum But I was talking of ure 2 communist examples

So was I. Those communist countries had popular support, or they would have been overthrown.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: SteveA Well, who requires the degree? I've gotten a lot of technical positions with no degree at all.

The Biotech industry is very related to the Medical. Are you saying that you can become a doctor without getting an MD?

Quote by: SteveA And if it's truly necessary, then if you can't provide this, your parents should have made plans if they intended for their child to have a BS degree. I might want my children to have a lot of things but I can only afford so much. It would unfair to others to expect them to pay for children I chose to have.

Wait, you're saying that a child should suffer because their parent's lack of planning? Or whatever mistakes their parents make? That they shouldn't have a chance at higher education because of that? Not exactly a level playing field is it?

Quote by: SteveA If a majority of the people on your block wanted to paint their houses brown and they made you pay for and paint your own house brown as well, would that be much different from slavery? We can assume there were underlying threats of physical harm/incarceration or financial action to enforce this. Sure, they receive something beneficial from it but wouldn't it be better to live in a society that just accepted the fact that not everyone needed to live by the same standards, or that it was seen as unjust forcing someone to comply unnecessarily with a system they felt worked against their interests for no real legitimate grievance?

In what way would painting my house brown, benefit society? How much benefits are there? How much does it affect me? Would it leave me unable to feed myself? Would I have to commit suicide because my house was brown?

Quote by: SteveA I just couldn't help responding to your post because I was a poor schmuck too. My bedroom was a closet when I was growing up and I have no degree but I'm one of the best engineers around in many areas. I've got an uncle who homeschooled his children. The oldest child is now a multimillion and going to buy a boat and take his family on cruise around the world. Their other children are doing fine as well ... no degrees. Sure, some people need more assistance but there are plenty of resources for motivated people. Oh, and consider this. Imagine I had to help pay for someone to attend a university, that I couldn't afford to attend? It's not "free". We can't all go to universities, nor should everyone go because we don't need everyone to do similar things in any event. I'm just saying that it's limiting and harmful to have the mindset that one persons education is dependent upon other people to supply. There are many ways to learn and universities are just one of them (and an expensive option as well).

I think you've failed to understand but I'll explain again. I need a BSc inorder to work as just a bog standard lab technician in Biotech. I know this because I'm currently doing industrial placement with Reckitt Benckiser. I'm in a Microlab and everyone I know that works in a position which deals with microbes and controlled drugs has a BSc. No wait, there are two people without degrees, one cleaning lady and another one does media preparation & stock ordering.

It's nice to hear a success story like that but the fact is, what you're talking about happens to very few people. Giving everyone, be they from middle or working class, a chance to get higher education will help to level the playing field. You may not like it because you got a lucky break.

Have you ever wondered, if everyone got rich like you did, who would be at the bottom to operate the "machines"? Who would clean the toilets? Ah, I guess that's another reason to maintain this Rich/Poor divide.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman If morals don't exist, then you have no basis for any of your arguments.

Nor do you have any either. Works both ways then.

[amana1man]

Quote by: Pooeypants Then why do they choose to live here? They are free to move to other countries. The minority isn't suffering because they're being taxed are they? Are you claiming that due to high taxation, people are struggling to feed their kids?

How does one move to other country when one has no assets or property of monetary value?
The minority is suffering because tax money goes to pay retired government people multi millions per year. Your retired congressman does not pay social security but he will get a paycheck from uncle Sam for the amount he made when working for the rest of his life.
The minority is suffering because tax money goes to build bridges that go no where.
The minority is suffering because tax money goes to fight a unjust war.
The problem is tax money is not being used in a just exchange for goods and services for the people of the country both wealthy and the impoverished.
In my opinion the tax code needs rewrote. Loop holes need removed. I would consider a tax where the rate of taxation increased by 1% for ever $10000.00 over proverty level. Someone said do away with income tax and tax comodies and services. Yea, this will hurt the impoverished even more. IE there was talk in Iowa of lowering property tax and adding a tax on food. This stinks! More to help those who have plenty.

[YumTum]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman So was I. Those communist countries had popular support, or they would have been overthrown.

Now i am confused.
It was forced form of governement. That was eventually taken over by dicators.

The ideals that i pout forward were socialist in nature but under a democratic forms of goverment. But there would have to be a large idealogy change within the society for this to be in place.

Like here in NZ, we are being offered tax cuts across the board.
Or the Government in power (Labour) are offering tax relief to families.

As soons as people hear every1 gets cuts, they jump at the chance, rather than considering its about $15 a week if u are middle class.

I personally would rather a family get $150 a week.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: amana1man How does one move to other country when one has no assets or property of monetary value?

Why should I care? Everyone for themselves isn't it?

Quote by: amana1man The minority is suffering because tax money goes to pay retired government people multi millions per year. Your retired congressman does not pay social security but he will get a paycheck from uncle Sam for the amount he made when working for the rest of his life. The minority is suffering because tax money goes to build bridges that go no where. The minority is suffering because tax money goes to fight a unjust war. The problem is tax money is not being used in a just exchange for goods and services for the people of the country both wealthy and the impoverished. In my opinion the tax code needs rewrote. Loop holes need removed. I would consider a tax where the rate of taxation increased by 1% for ever $10000.00 over proverty level. Someone said do away with income tax and tax comodies and services. Yea, this will hurt the impoverished even more. IE there was talk in Iowa of lowering property tax and adding a tax on food. This stinks! More to help those who have plenty.

Even though I'm not American, I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying.

Meh, tax on food is required, obesity cases are through the roof...

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: Pooeypants Nor do you have any either. Works both ways then.

... that's why I'm asserting that morals exist.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman So was I. Those communist countries had popular support, or they would have been overthrown.

They had support, because they gave promises which couldn't be fulfilled. Now they're enforced miltarily because those in power don't want to lose their power. It's the same old story, human greed kicks in everytime.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: YumTum Now i am confused. It was forced form of governement. That was eventually taken over by dicators.

All forms of government are "forced". That's the definition of government -- force.

[YumTum]

Quote by: Morgan_Freeman All forms of government are "forced". That's the definition of government -- force.

There is a difference from "where are now the government" and "we have been voted in as government"

We have coalition governments here so the split is even more interesting.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Quote by: YumTum There is a difference from "where are now the government" and "we have been voted in as government"

Not really. In either case, if the population is dissatisfied, they can overthrow the government.

[Morgan_Freeman]

Here are some good links on poverty:

http://www.geocities.com/tracysaboe/...ndwelfare.html
http://www.reason.com/rauch/092203.shtml
http://www.reason.com/rb/rb090302.shtml
http://reason.com/9706/fe.nick.shtml
http://www.reason.com/rb/rb091802.shtml
http://www.reason.com/rb/rb082602.shtml
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reed/reed64.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/schall1.html
http://www.lewrockwell.com/woods/woods32.html

[amana1man]

Quote by: tman_ndsu08 An outspokan socialist?! I didn't think such a person actually existed since it's comical to me that a human would actually advocate that money should be stolen from everyone else so that he/she could benefit. Luckily, you're the vast minority. I can rest at night knowing that people like you are merely misguided and will simply be brushed out of the way to make room for glorious tax cut after tax cut!

I do not think this person is a minority. I think tax rate ahould go up exponentially. Lets say 1% for each 20 thousand. If you make 100,000.00 per year your rate would be 5% with no exemptions, no house write offs. You pay the 5% tax.
If you made $900,000.00 your tax rate would be 45%. Stop at say 50% tax. I would not happen because those people in congress are wealthy and would not pass any bill which would take money from there pocket. Just like price gouging by oil compaines. Bush will not do anything about it since he most likely profits by you paying more for gas.

[tman_ndsu08]

Quote by: Pooeypants Stealing? You must have a strange view on society. As a matter of fact, why don't you live on your own, out on an island where no gov't can "steal" from you? We live in a society for a reason, to help one another; together we achieve more. Is your own greed more important than the happiness of everyone else? I'm not advocating you share all your worldly possessions but sharing some is better than none. Unless you like to live on your own, of course.

I do advocate a limited government that is only responsible for police, courts, and military. Obviously these things take taxes to which I'm happy to pay a flat amount that every person in the country should pay reguardless of employment status, less they be exported.

That's more than enough society for me.