Permanently Abandon New Orleans

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio They were given Full access to federal resources 2 DAYS before the hurricane hit.

Thats a lie. The airlines shut down 24 hours prior and the Luisiana National Guard was off on a wild goose chase for WMDs. And your pinhead hero was fiddling

and playing golf instead of asking WHAT CAN WASHINGTON DO, TO HELP?
Where were the cargo planes to evacuate prior to the storm? Where was FEMA? They could make it to NY PRIOR to a "surprise" attack on 911......But, they couldnt make it to the "E" in FEMA , until when? FRIDAY?

[Mr.Vicchio]

It's not a lie. What is a lie is your instance that Bush was responsible for the Hurricane evacuation and post clean up. The Mayor and Governor were. YOU and your ilk want American's to believe the Presidency is "all powerful" and any failure is his fault (of course you never give him any credit either but hey...)

The MAYOR had that call, and dropped the ball. The GOVENOR had the ball and dropped it. AFTER it was apparent what a disaster those two were, THEN the Fed's kicked in, and NOW we see progress.

When you can admit that, then you will have credibility. The Government works a certain way, and here you are, bashing Bush for not going around the system... imagine that. I think you are just a part of the typical leftist puppet ring that does everything it can to hide the incompetance of Liberals in Action. Because THATS the real point of blame.

I said I wouldn't post agian, but you cannot admit the truth. Consider yourself schooled, come back with facts, not Democratic Underground photoshop (and poorly done at that) posters, as your only point backing up your LIES.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Bush: "They just need to run away"

LINK Storm Exposed Disarray at the Top Despite experience of 9/11, federal disaster system remains fatally flawed By Susan B. Glasser and Josh White Updated: 4:39 a.m. ET Sept. 4, 2005 WASHINGTON - The killer hurricane and flood that devastated the Gulf Coast last week exposed fatal weaknesses in a federal disaster response system retooled after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, to handle just such a cataclysmic event. Despite four years and tens of billions of dollars spent preparing for the worst, the federal government was not ready when it came at daybreak on Monday, according to interviews with more than a dozen current and former senior officials and outside experts.

I am not alone.

[Cephus]

Quote by: njlemire87 One other thing, just to keep in mind, is that the levees actually rode out the storm. It was the flooding of the mississippi river and the nearby lake that caused them so much trouble. Nice post.

They did have a couple of breaks in the levees but in the end, it doesn't really matter where the water came from, the city was still flooded. Only an idiot would put it back in the same place with the same inherent problems.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio The MAYOR had that call, and dropped the ball. The GOVENOR had the ball and dropped it. AFTER it was apparent what a disaster those two were, THEN the Fed's kicked in, and NOW we see progress.

You're right, the mayor and the governor did screw up. Heck, the New Orleans fire department, which spends every day in the middle of a hurricane flooding zone, only has three boats and two were being repaired. The third one beached itself somewhere. They had to get swamp boats in from Arkansas to rescue people because the entire emergency management system in NO had it's thumb up it's ass.

But it still took Bush a long, long time to get the National Guard in and even longer to get the Marines and their amphibious boats in for the rescue, probably resulting in hundreds of needless deaths. As incompetent as the local government might be, Bush still messed up.

[njlemire87]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I am sure its just a coincidence that New Orleans is the ONLY strong Democratic county in Luisiana: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../P/00/map.html That wouldnt have anything at all to do with a snail like response, now would it?

Hmmm... how about the fact that New Orleans, under control of dems for many years, has one of the highest poverty rates in the country? Bad disaster response?

New York- Republican control in city on 9/11, fast respond time, well prepared.. Hmm.......

[njlemire87]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Thats a lie. The airlines shut down 24 hours prior and the Luisiana National Guard was off on a wild goose chase for WMDs. And your pinhead hero was fiddling and playing golf instead of asking WHAT CAN WASHINGTON DO, TO HELP? Where were the cargo planes to evacuate prior to the storm? Where was FEMA? They could make it to NY PRIOR to a "surprise" attack on 911......But, they couldnt make it to the "E" in FEMA , until when? FRIDAY?

Lets see, lets move all of our governments supplies and men directly into the path of a catagory five storm instaed of waiting untill after it hits!

[njlemire87]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Bush: "They just need to run away" I am not alone.

Oh gee, the washington post. Im convinced.

[njlemire87]

Quote by: Cephus They did have a couple of breaks in the levees but in the end, it doesn't really matter where the water came from, the city was still flooded. Only an idiot would put it back in the same place with the same inherent problems.

Yes, they did have holes in the levees, still not untill after the storm had passed.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio The MAYOR had that call, and dropped the ball. The GOVENOR had the ball and dropped it.

You want to blame the mayor and the governor?

MR. RUSSERT: Hold on. Hold on, sir. Shouldn't the mayor of New Orleans and the governor of New Orleans bear some responsibility? Couldn't they have been much more forceful, much more effective and much more organized in evacuating the area? MR. BROUSSARD: Sir, they were told like me, every single day, "The cavalry's coming," on a federal level, "The cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming, the cavalry's coming." I have just begun to hear the hoofs of the cavalry. The cavalry's still not here yet, but I've begun to hear the hoofs, and we're almost a week out. Let me give you just three quick examples. We had Wal-Mart deliver three trucks of water, trailer trucks of water. FEMA turned them back. They said we didn't need them. This was a week ago. FEMA--we had 1,000 gallons of diesel fuel on a Coast Guard vessel docked in my parish. The Coast Guard said, "Come get the fuel right away." When we got there with our trucks, they got a word. "FEMA says don't give you the fuel." Yesterday--yesterday--FEMA comes in and cuts all of our emergency communication lines. They cut them without notice. Our sheriff, Harry Lee, goes back in, he reconnects the line. He posts armed guards on our line and says, "No one is getting near these lines." Sheriff Harry Lee said that if America--American government would have responded like Wal-Mart has responded, we wouldn't be in this crisis. But I want to thank Governor Blanco for all she's done and all her leadership. She sent in the National Guard. I just repaired a breach on my side of the 17th Street canal that the secretary didn't foresee, a 300-foot breach. I just completed it yesterday with convoys of National Guard and local parish workers and levee board people. It took us two and a half days working 24/7. I just closed it. MR. RUSSERT: All right.

Why is FEMA acting like Sabateurs and "The Enemy"?

[Sean]

Hey Dan, Patrick asked you nicely to keep his thread on topic. Vicchio listened. You continue to turn every topic into your personal battle against Bush.

I am getting pretty sick of it. If the topics become all you protesting Bush then it is going to get/stay pretty boring around here.

Thanks to those who brought this to my attention. This whole obsession with turning every topic into a single cause is getting out of hand. Leave the topic alone if you are not interested in the original intention of the topic.

THIS WARNING CAN BE RESPONDED TO IN THE "SITE OPERATIONS" FORUM. DO NOT INTERUPT THIS THREAD FURTHER BY TALKING ABOUT IT WITHIN THIS TOPIC.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Sean Hey Dan, Patrick asked you nicely to keep his thread on topic

OK.
Can we talk about other politicians but just not bush? This is the "Politics" forum, right?

[njlemire87]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel OK. Can we talk about other politicians but just not bush? This is the "Politics" forum, right?

Please just start a new thread.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Wher did my last post go?
It wasnt about Bush

I dont get it. Why bother rebuilding if FEMA is determined to maximize the death quota? This question is on topic.

[lsbskins1]

I notice that the "incompetent democrats" comment went uncommented on. Although I agree most topics tend to degenerate into partisan attacks, it comes from both sides. When issues are essentially "policy" driven, they lead down this road as a matter of course. They lead down this road because both sides are predisposed to believe that any policy choice in opposition to the one they would advocate is based on stupidity or greed. The republicans think democrats are stupid and the democrats think the republicans are greedy and stupid. What're you gonna do to alter those perceptions?

[njlemire87]

Quote by: lsbskins1 I notice that the "incompetent democrats" comment went uncommented on. Although I agree most topics tend to degenerate into partisan attacks, it comes from both sides. When issues are essentially "policy" driven, they lead down this road as a matter of course. They lead down this road because both sides are predisposed to believe that any policy choice in opposition to the one they would advocate is based on stupidity or greed. The republicans think democrats are stupid and the democrats think the republicans are greedy and stupid. What're you gonna do to alter those perceptions?

Blame Canada.

[Mia]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Hey I feel for them, trust me, I have given.. more then I should to the relief effort. But life does go on. Hell my move to Houston's in serious jeopardy, all the motels are filled up, the apartments are being told to give priority to Hurricane evacuees that want to stay (that means my price range is shot) and now the Job I was after is on hold while they doa merger... So it's looking like San Antonio is my destination, and I will have to pay for the Navy to ship my stuff to SA if it works out... Of course, I will take these problems to thiers anyday...

Just giving you a hard time. I still have problems too.

[Mia]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel OK. Can we talk about other politicians but just not bush? This is the "Politics" forum, right?

No, stay on the topic of the thread, or start your own.

[Mia]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Wher did my last post go? It wasnt about Bush I dont get it. Why bother rebuilding if FEMA is determined to maximize the death quota? This question is on topic.

How is that on the topic of not re-building NO? Don't answer - there has been enough hijacking.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Mia Quote by: Mia Can we talk about other politicians but just not bush? This is the "Politics" forum, right? No, stay on the topic of the thread, or start your own.

I really am trying to play right. I was talking about can we discuss the political ramifications of rebuilding, but just leaving bush out of it because somebody doesnt want any finger pointing at their particular candidate. Or should this topic be better addressed in Science and Tech Forum, where we can debate the nuts and bolts of the physical "Rebuilding"?

Quote by: Mia How is that on the topic of not re-building NO? Don't answer - there has been enough hijacking.

The topic is "Permanently Abandon New Orleans" If you cant debate THAT, what do you want to talk about?
In Patricks Topic starter, his article brought this issue to the table:

Quote by: PatrickHenry Washington - House Speaker Dennis Hastert dropped a bombshell on flood-ravaged New Orleans on Thursday by suggesting that it isn’t sensible to rebuild the city. "It doesn't make sense to me," Hastert told the Daily Herald in suburban Chicago in editions published today. And it's a question that certainly we should ask."

So dont you guys demonize me.

I dont think I am really that far off track, am I?