Permanently Abandon New Orleans

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: SteveA I don't think the magnitude of damage would be nearly the same. You might lose a bridge and have some buildings effectively destroyed but people wouldn't need to be evacuated, have them wait for months and then rebuild from close to nothing. Of course anyone building right on top the San Andreas fault line is asking for trouble and I don't think I'd suggest using government resources to rebuild such a structure if it were destroyed in the quake. That would be irresponsible and create a persistant danger to the occupants in the future as well. Given the option, I'm certain plenty of people would prefer help to be toward some different site. They should still repair the levy and pump the place dry, so people can recover any non-perishable items but I'm saying I agreed that any national assistance for reconstruction should be done in an area above sea level.

Do you realize the amount of damage a 10.0 earthquake will do? Go research it and come back. If one were to hit LA most of the city would be rubble.

[SteveA]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Do you realize the amount of damage a 10.0 earthquake will do? Go research it and come back. If one were to hit LA most of the city would be rubble.

Do you realize the unlikelyhood of having magnitude 10 earthquake? Come back after you've researched the Ricter scale .

(Hint: That's around 100 times more powerful than anything we've seen here in recent history. It's a logarithmic scale with each point ricter being 10 times as powerful. A level 10 would lay waste to everything but you could say the same thing for a small meteor.)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: SteveA Of course anyone building right on top the San Andreas fault line is asking for trouble and I don't think I'd suggest using government resources to rebuild such a structure if it were destroyed in the quake.

What do you mean by on top of?
How much of this area is asking for trouble?

[monty of ll]

Just because Vicchio doesn't understand the Richter scale, doesn't mean that his point isn't valid. Just take it as him suggesting that the West coast could get an 8 or an 8.5. Anybody ever been to San Francisco and looked at some of the building that are barely standing? Even without a earthquake the mortar between the bricks is crumbling.

[gr8fuldaniel]

See that big brown oval in the middle of CA ?
Thats where I live. Maybe I shoul buy a boat, eh? :eek:

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: ericsp23 Maybe they could relocate to higher ground.

Thats what we did in Old Sacramento. First they raised the streets, then all the businesses added a second floor. The original store fronts are all below street level. Eventually they migrated a bit east, to higher ground. But, its all still there:

Link The embarcadero flourished and was the prime trading center for miners outfitting themselves for the gold fields. But the new city experienced flooding and fires. In 1850 the new city experienced its first devastating flood, and again in 1852, the city was wiped out by high water. It was apparent that drastic measures would have to be taken if it was to saved. In 1853 a mammoth project was proposed to raise the city above the flood. The ambitious and expensive proposal was not totally accepted until another devastating flood swept through the city in 1862. Within a few years, thousands of cubic yards of earth were brought in on wagons and the daring scheme to raise the street level can be seen throughout Old Sacramento under the boardwalks and in its basements. The center of the commercial district gradually moved east and the area became a slum.In the mid-1960's, a grand plan to redevelop the area was begun. Today, with 53 historic buildings, Old Sacramento probably has more buildings of historic value condensed into its 28 acres than any area of similar size in the west. Old Sacramento is a National Landmark and a portion is designated as a State Historic Park.

[njlemire87]

Quote by: |Chris| njlemire87, I would hate to see your opinion if a similar disaster would happen in your hometown.

The biggest reason I think that is that NO is not like other areas that can have these horrific events. It is also ten to fifteen feet below sealevel. They are asking for it there. I think that the people who want to build, should. That is why we have insurance. If my house were destroyed, our insurance would pay us so we could build a new one. I would not rely on the government or the taxpayers to do it for me.

[njlemire87]

Quote by: Cephus Until the next hurricane. And the next. And the next. It just makes no sense to keep rebuilding a city with major inherent problems over and over again. It isn't like Katrina was the only hurricane they'll ever get, they get slammed regularly and the levies break all the time. The problem is that the city was built below sea level and so long as it remains below sea level, they're going to face getting wiped out over and over and over again. At the very least, they need to vastly improve the system to withstand force 5 hurricanes. The old system was, at best, set up for a force 3, probably less with all the corruption that goes on. More realistically, they need to raise the entire city above sea level. Optimally, they need to get over this whole history nonsense and MOVE the damn thing.

One other thing, just to keep in mind, is that the levees actually rode out the storm. It was the flooding of the mississippi river and the nearby lake that caused them so much trouble. Nice post.

[Mia]

I just can't imagine no New Orleans or LA or SF. They are all such important cities.

[Mia]

Quote by: Cephus Until the next hurricane. And the next. And the next. It just makes no sense to keep rebuilding a city with major inherent problems over and over again. It isn't like Katrina was the only hurricane they'll ever get, they get slammed regularly and the levies break all the time. The problem is that the city was built below sea level and so long as it remains below sea level, they're going to face getting wiped out over and over and over again. At the very least, they need to vastly improve the system to withstand force 5 hurricanes. The old system was, at best, set up for a force 3, probably less with all the corruption that goes on. More realistically, they need to raise the entire city above sea level. Optimally, they need to get over this whole history nonsense and MOVE the damn thing.

How many have there been? Why do you think one like this will hit again?

I agree on building to withstand category 5, though. And it should be a requirement to carry insurance, so tax dollars don't have to bear all the burden.

[Mr.Vicchio]

What were the chances of a Cat4/5 Storm actually hitting NO? Pretty rare but it could have (and now did) happen.

Cali WILL get a 9.0+ earthquake, it's not a matter of if, but when. Will we rebuild after that?

[ComradeRed]

Egads...who could have thought that building a city on a swamp near hurricane alley was a bad idea? The only sensible thing is to rebuild the place so this scenario can never be done again.

[gr8fuldaniel]

The thing about dams, bridges and Levees is,
If they are only 80% finished, they are 100% ineffective.

Fire bush for diverting the funding to Iraq.

Call it dereliction of duty

[oranged]

Given the situation I think people should build a city somewhere else, what choice do they have? Everything is destroyed in New Orleans. They have to mave to higher ground, disasters like this can only get more frequent at the current rate. I know it can be hard to move, but in this case these people are moving from nothing to something, creating a new life. All I can do is Donate some money, and wish them best of luck.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel The thing about dams, bridges and Levees is, If they are only 80% finished, they are 100% ineffective. Fire bush for diverting the funding to Iraq. Call it dereliction of duty

Yes your logic once again makes no sense, but thanks for playing, come back with something substantial and not knee jerk :0

[rcne]

New Orleans could be our Venice of the South. Level the old city, build new above sea level.

New Orleans wasn't destroyed by a cat 5, it was destroyed by a levy breaking when they had no electricity to run the pumps.

The entire coastline is at risk of hurricane damage with all the development.right on the shore. New Orleans is/was the only city below sea level.

It was a disaster waiting to happen, much like California building on fault lines.

[amana1man]

Quote by: rcne New Orleans wasn't destroyed by a cat 5, it was destroyed by a levy breaking when they had no electricity to run the pumps. It was a disaster waiting to happen, much like California building on fault lines.

The Water Pumps were many years old, how many even worked..
Also called the city that Care Forgot I think it strange that in fact this is the one of the official nicknames for New Orleans since it was forgot by our government.
Before 1910 New Orleans also known as The Crescent City was swampy and subject to frequent flooding. In 1910s engineer and inventor A. Baldwin Wood enacted his ambitious plan to drain the city, including large pumps of his own design which are still in use. (info from Internet site) Pumps 80 or 90 years old still in use!!! Why were pumps this old still in use? When predicted that a category 4 huricane would do such damage the levees were not made bigger and stronger. WHY!!! If a person has a bad illness and are told they will die unless they have this treatment which cost thousands of dollars. What would they do? Do they spend the life savings and live or keep there money and die. Our Government used our money to wage war in Asia and still are. Bush was told Ca. would need to cut dead wood in there forest or expect a huge wild fire. Congress would not approve funds for the cutting of the dead wood and California had the fire which had been predicted. This fire could have been prevented and was very costly.

I watched the news for hours. Here is some facts: 20 to 30 years ago the government was told the levees needed made larger and stronger. A sea wall needed constructed to protect gulf from tidal waves. Our Government knew this, they have admitted to knowing this. The Government knew a category 5 hurricane would bring a catastrophe disaster to New Orleans and the gulf area. Before 1910 New Orleans also known as The Crescent City was swampy and subject to frequent flooding. In 1910s engineer and inventor A. Baldwin Wood enacted his ambitious plan to drain the city, including large pumps of his own design which are still in use. (info from Internet site) Pumps 80 or 90 years old still in use!!! I hear our government will spend over 50 billion dollars due to the destruction caused by Hurricane Katrina and the devastating aftermath. Our Government could have spent considerable less constructing sea walls years ago when warned a such a hurricane would cause such damage. Our government would not approve funds to build a sea wall or larger and stronger levees and now thousands HAVE OR WILL die. It was reported in the last few years the area has got less money to maintain the levees. Yet Bust asked for billions to fight an oil war in the middle east and started the war with creation of lies and building fears with his militaristic rhetoric. Oil war, look what we are paying for gas. Bush could demand lower gas prices but he will not since he has ties to the oil industry and wish to feather his pockets more. Now a catastrophe disaster has happened and government help is very slow to show up. The Red Cross should have been set up in southern Arkansas before the storm struck. Government relief workers knew and should have been ready to go in but so many are over seas helping those who are not Americans. Some say well the people was warned of the storm and its destructive forces. Why did so many not flee from the path of destruction. Well if you are poverty-stricken or elderly it is not so easy. Many own no transportation because they can not afford gas and insurance. I am white and poor and if I lived in New Orleans I would be feeling hopeless with the thousands waiting for help to arrive. A few wealthy people remained in the area and I feel for them too but they could have left but was afraid of looters. This was what one man said. Well he stayed for nothing since his mansion was washed away. He risk his life for what, material possessions. I feel ashamed of being labeled white man since it puts me in the same race as Bush. YES Bush is guilty of race discrimination, he is a bigot and he is contemptuous of New Orleans. If New Orleans was white and wealthy help would have arrived days ago. How fast did we respond to the last disaster in Asia. How many other wealthy countries have come to help in New Orleans? It appears the United States of America is the most disliked nation in the world thanks to men like Bush. Thousands would not be trapped in pollution, wreckage and children would not be seeing people being raped, beat, shot, and dying of hunger and hopelessness. Bush now sends troops to New Orleans with orders to shoot looters some which only are looking for food and water.
Protect Walmart from the looters and the hell with those who will die of thirst. Bush visited the ravaged area to make a soap box speech. It is a shame he did not get pulled down from his soap box by the dead in the black waters of misery and sorrow now covering a city which did abounded with life. I pray for the light of god to shine upon the people and they be lifted from there misery and sorrow. I hope a hundred voodoo people read this and put a curse on Bush that his dreams be nightmares of the walking dead in the city that Care Forgot I think it strange that in fact this is the one of the official nicknames for New Orleans.

[njlemire87]

My real feeling are this on this topic: Why should the United States spend biliions upon billions of dollars to rebuild a city that is in a highly hurricane prone area that is ten to twenty feet below sea level? Why do we need to put that additional strain on our soon to be already strained economy? We are going to have to give billions in welfare and unemployment in the next year. Rebuilding N.O. in its present location is a waste of both time and money. They should at the very least move the city to somewhere that is higher and more stable.

[SteveA]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio What were the chances of a Cat4/5 Storm actually hitting NO? Pretty rare but it could have (and now did) happen. Cali WILL get a 9.0+ earthquake, it's not a matter of if, but when. Will we rebuild after that?

Why intentionally create such a danger though? If the San Andreas fault is a danger and it was something that didn't have to be recreated, why not avoid making one in the first place?

We can't stop earthquakes, but national assistance can rebuild in areas above sealevel.

Like I said, they should repair the levies and drain the place, and people there would be free to rebuild if they wanted to, but I think it's a bad use of federal resources to reconstruct things there, when the surrounding areas don't have the same danger. No need for federal funding of earthquakes or floods.

[Clarence]

Quote by: njlemire87 My real feeling are this on this topic: Why should the United States spend biliions upon billions of dollars to rebuild a city that is in a highly hurricane prone area that is ten to twenty feet below sea level? Why do we need to put that additional strain on our soon to be already strained economy? We are going to have to give billions in welfare and unemployment in the next year. Rebuilding N.O. in its present location is a waste of both time and money. They should at the very least move the city to somewhere that is higher and more stable.

You may be right about not rebuilding the city, but we haven't even abandoned it yet. Besides, if we can waste hundreds of billions of dollars on bumbled war attempts, we could probably justify rebuilding peoples homes. I can't see why we would want to expose people to this again. but if you were them you might take the risk of living there again. Bush and his bosses didn't build New Orleans below see level, but those assholes did run for the jobs they have. I heard alot of talk about compassion during election time. Barf. I'm sad that our focus has already left the major catastrophe ( which isn't over) so much that we are discussing what to do with the newly vacant space. It's getting frustrating for us all. everyone's shouting their opinion. the world seems acidic. What do we do about the "little Somolia" we got brewing down there. Some people I know like our gov't because it's messing up so bad that their own dreams of anarchy might soon come true. They are my friends and they have no idea how badly cut they are for a free for all. survival of the fittest. They went out and voted for the first time only to elect Bush and everyone he told them to. Still my friends. they simply don't understand and I have known them since before I stopped playing Super Nintendo. I can't understand why they don't understand. Has anybody ever heard of this happening? Kinda like voting for anarchy. I'm off topic how rude.


As for the post, I say make it very beneficial for the refugies to relocate elsewhere. Tax benefit or something. If people want to live in New Orleans anyway? that's tough. wow , this is such a mess!