Anti-War, Anti-Soldier.

[PatrickHenry]

Gorgo, I don't equate military soldiers and mob soldiers. The military is arguably a necessity, because self-defense is every nation's right. The mob knows it is a criminal conspiracy. The GI's don't know, and in fact, largely think that they are defending their nation.

[jose]

A soldier obeys orders without protest in the sure confidence that those orders are just and legal it is up to us to bring to there attention details which may course them to regret what they did when the truth comes out, the iraq war is illegal you cannot invade a country that has not attacked yours

[mr.perfecto]

President Bush has totally sucked as an emperor. He needs to step up his game or we will never make into the history books as one of the greatest empires to have ever existed. He needs to be more like Caesar. Or Genghis Khan.

What he needs to do is gather all the Iraqis up, execute the adult males, chop off the ears of the boys, and cut out the tongues of all the women. We could finally feel proud of our glorious Empire then.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I just got out, 10 years US Navy E-5 Honorably Discharged. I was involved with Kosovo. That's all I can say about that.

BRAVO Mr. V

[xshakes]

The longer this war drags on the worse the lunatic fringe will be. Support the troops but shout down the reckless leadership. My problem with the war outside of the bad/fake intel. Is the plan for during the War sucked. Attacking troops are not there for crowd control that is the Military Police and regular infantry. The looting started the down hill slide. The plan made no sense to have to so few troops to hold the city, because we did not have the troops to hold the city and keep the attack going, which is why the looting started. Rumy, GW and Dick C. have to be called out about it. If this was a democrate in the White house they would have ran him out on a rail. But because GW has Republicans in both houses, they ignore his bad plan. They ignored more serious terrorist players like Syria or Iran to try for low hanging fruit but it has not been that easy.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: xshakes The longer this war drags on the worse the lunatic fringe will be. Support the troops but shout down the reckless leadership. My problem with the war outside of the bad/fake intel. Is the plan for during the War sucked. Attacking troops are not there for crowd control that is the Military Police and regular infantry. The looting started the down hill slide. The plan made no sense to have to so few troops to hold the city, because we did not have the troops to hold the city and keep the attack going, which is why the looting started. Rumy, GW and Dick C. have to be called out about it. If this was a democrate in the White house they would have ran him out on a rail. But because GW has Republicans in both houses, they ignore his bad plan. They ignored more serious terrorist players like Syria or Iran to try for low hanging fruit but it has not been that easy.

History began long before this war. If you choose to go read some about other wars, you would see that occupation is always part of the job. We were in Japan for years and only recently are getting out of Germany.
There has been tremendous progress in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you aren't ever going to get the possitive news because the press doesn't want to report it. This is one of the soldiers greatest frustrations from what I've heard.
Their kicking ass there and they can't get what our press is reporting at all.

Syria and other places were not a priority over Iraq and Saddam, because Saddam was financing terror elsewhere outside of his country.
With a million dead in mass graves, Saddam having used WMD before to kill thousands of Kurds and Saddam saying he had stuff still, there was a need to go in.

Would have been nice to have all the UN go in, but as you know, we found France, Germany and Russia who were blocking everything in the UN were all involved in illegal back door deals with Saddam.
France had a deal to handle Iraq oil fields in exchange for 75% of the profits, Russia and Germany were making money on various sales of construction for the wealthy ruler and technologies.
If you want specifics, I'd suggest you look up the involvement of our supposed allies on google.
Also, you can look up how long we were in Japan and Germany after WW2 for some additional perspective in time.

Have a great day.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: lsbskins1 V., old friend , where is the post where you strongly condemned Pat Robertson for calling for a politcal assasination? I mean, you hate it when reasonable people don't call out the lunitic fringe, right? Political assinations are illegal and bad policy, right? (I have not read all of your posts, so if I missed it I will appologize in advance.)

Did you see me post in that thread? I don't recall doing so on this forum. But, I have on other forums, and I DID call Pat out for that bullshit. And it was. Why did you bring this up without checking?

[TheNegotiator]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica History began long before this war. If you choose to go read some about other wars, you would see that occupation is always part of the job. We were in Japan for years and only recently are getting out of Germany. There has been tremendous progress in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you aren't ever going to get the possitive news because the press doesn't want to report it. This is one of the soldiers greatest frustrations from what I've heard. Their kicking ass there and they can't get what our press is reporting at all. Syria and other places were not a priority over Iraq and Saddam, because Saddam was financing terror elsewhere outside of his country. With a million dead in mass graves, Saddam having used WMD before to kill thousands of Kurds and Saddam saying he had stuff still, there was a need to go in. Would have been nice to have all the UN go in, but as you know, we found France, Germany and Russia who were blocking everything in the UN were all involved in illegal back door deals with Saddam. France had a deal to handle Iraq oil fields in exchange for 75% of the profits, Russia and Germany were making money on various sales of construction for the wealthy ruler and technologies. If you want specifics, I'd suggest you look up the involvement of our supposed allies on google. Also, you can look up how long we were in Japan and Germany after WW2 for some additional perspective in time. Have a great day.

Yes occupation is part of the job but as it turns out we had no reason to be there anyway.

Yes, perhaps some progress is being made... however people are still being killed every single day, so there's still a long, long way to go yet.

As to the supposed corruptness of our UN allies, I'd suggest that you provide me with concrete proof rather than suggesting I find it on Google. I'd be much more convinced. I am not discrediting the potential that what you have said is true, however I think you ought to ascertain the validity of these comments and provide the concrete proof before you go and cite it as evidence supporting your views.

Where are you getting your input from soldiers from? Do you personally know some? Or are you assuming and passing it off as concrete fact?

In short, what you are saying certainly has potential, and for the most part could be tied together with logic--however you would be far more credible and persuasive if you would provide us with actual sources, not just hearsay evidence.

[Sonart]

Quote by: GBA History began long before this war. If you choose to go read some about other wars, you would see that occupation is always part of the job. We were in Japan for years and only recently are getting out of Germany.

You don't have much of an eye for history. Let's review: Nazi Germany was the super power of it's day, the most awesome war machine the world had yet seen and had invaded, conquered and occupied most of Europe. Japan, allied to Nazi Germany by treaty, had invaded conquered and occupied even more area in Asia and the Pacific. They consumed every nation on earth into a global war, most allied with us. In the end, Germany and Japan, both were the aggressors and both were totally defeated, surrounded on all sides by their conquerers, incapable of resisting their occupations.

Lesson 2: we have more difficulty when our opponents are on their own turf, fighting asymetrical guerilla warfare, supplied and armed from outside allies. (Korea), Vietnam, the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, Beirut Airport, Somalia.

Lesson 3: Iraq falls squarely in the latter... a large, hostile nation surrounded on three sides by Muslim populations that hate us even more than the Iraqis, in a part of the world where terrorist warfare is an artform, flooding Iraq with munitions and fighters who want nothing more out of life than to die killing Americans.

Things are not going all right in Iraq, GBA, and they're not getting better.

Quote by: GBA Their kicking ass there and they can't get what our press is reporting at all.

What do you mean by kicking ass? We're killing enemy fighters? Hell, we killed over a million in Vietnam, to our 54,000 dead. Didn't help there. The Soviets killed over a million in Afghanistan to their 15,000 dead. Didn't help them, either. As an American colonel in Iraq said, for every insurgent we kill in Iraq, we create three. The more of them we kill, the more attacks there are and the more Americans, foreign workers and Iraqi civilians die, and having Fox News report the entire war is not going to change that a hoot.

All the macho posturing in the world won't change a thing, GBA... all the insurgents need to do is keep doing what they're doing, keep us standing around getting picked off one by one for another 10 years, and I've seen absolutely no sign whatsoever that we can stop them. Have you?

Quote by: GBA Syria and other places were not a priority over Iraq and Saddam, because Saddam was financing terror elsewhere outside of his country.

Aw, come on... between Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, probably Pakistan and North Korea, Iraq was probably financing terror the least of all of them. After losing two wars, 12 years of sanctions and Desert Fox, Iraq was a shattered husk of a nation, a broken, hollow shell, with Saddam contenting himself to build palaces and torment his people. He was a threat to no one.

A perfect environment for an endless guerilla war of terror.
.

[GodBlessAmerica]

Quote by: TheNegotiator Yes occupation is part of the job but as it turns out we had no reason to be there anyway. Yes, perhaps some progress is being made... however people are still being killed every single day, so there's still a long, long way to go yet. As to the supposed corruptness of our UN allies, I'd suggest that you provide me with concrete proof rather than suggesting I find it on Google. I'd be much more convinced. I am not discrediting the potential that what you have said is true, however I think you ought to ascertain the validity of these comments and provide the concrete proof before you go and cite it as evidence supporting your views. Where are you getting your input from soldiers from? Do you personally know some? Or are you assuming and passing it off as concrete fact? In short, what you are saying certainly has potential, and for the most part could be tied together with logic--however you would be far more credible and persuasive if you would provide us with actual sources, not just hearsay evidence.

For starters:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles...e.asp?ID=13021
Review
“Timmerman is particularly strong on the history of French relations with Iraq and the massive corruption involved in arms and oil deals between the two countries over three decades. As a reporter in France for eighteen years, he was a well-placed observer.” —Washington Post

Here's more about all of them.
The numbers in the articles refer to the references below of where the information came from.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

Look up more stuff yourself, because you will not be ever satisfied with what you haven't researched yourself.

[xshakes]

Sonart, I could not have made a better reply.

[monty of ll]

GBA- I don't know why Germany, France, or Russia didn't go to war with the U.S. in Iraq but I suspect that it wasn't for any honourable reason. It was IMO because the U.S. had no intention of allowing those countries to share in the spoils equally. We should all remember that those countries had existing oil contracts with Iraq that they wanted to have honoured and that didn't fit with the U.S. game plan.

Now as a Canadian I can say with a fair amount of certainty that we didn't join with the U.S. because we were determined to only go with a U.N. decision. I know for certain that the large majority of Canadians didn't believe that the U.S.' stated reason for war was in fact legitimate. We told our Liberal government in large numbers (probably 80%) that we didn't want to join in the war and you would have to admit, in retrospect we were right.

So regardless of whether or not France, Germany, Russia, and most of the other significant countries of the world had honourable reasons for not joining in your war, they can easily claim that they didn't believe that the reasons given by the U.S. for war were valid. In retrospect they were right.

So GBA, the U.S. is stuck in Iraq, the coalition of the bribed is waning, and U.S. military persons killed in Iraq is fast approaching 2000. I would like to say that I think the world has pity for your situation in Iraq but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true. In fact I think that until you drag your lying emperor out of the Whitehouse and hang him by his ba--s from the nearest lamppost, the rest of the world is of the opinion that it looks good on y'all. And the one other thing that we are pretty well certain of too, is that god isn't about to bless America for what you have gotten yourselves into.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: monty of ll GBA- I would like to say that I think the world has pity for your situation in Iraq but unfortunately that doesn't seem to be true. In fact I think that until you drag your lying emperor out of the Whitehouse and hang him by his ba--s from the nearest lamppost, the rest of the world is of the opinion that it looks good on y'all. And the one other thing that we are pretty well certain of too, is that god isn't about to bless America for what you have gotten yourselves into.

Good luck on the first one I put in bold and, if God really is benevolent, I'm sure you're right about the second.

[Chris]

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica There has been tremendous progress in Iraq and Afghanistan, but you aren't ever going to get the possitive news because the press doesn't want to report it. This is one of the soldiers greatest frustrations from what I've heard. Their kicking ass there and they can't get what our press is reporting at all.

There may be progress in Afghanistan but you lumping them together doesn't make sense. Most of us are against the war in Iraq. Because of the false "sexed up" intel leading up to it. And I am sure that in the biased right wing newspapers they tell all about how we are "kicking ass" in Iraq but not 90% of the rest of the media.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Gorgo, I don't equate military soldiers and mob soldiers. The military is arguably a necessity, because self-defense is every nation's right. The mob knows it is a criminal conspiracy. The GI's don't know, and in fact, largely think that they are defending their nation.

Some kind of military may be a necessity. Ignorance, however, is not an excuse for anyone else. I understand that these are fine young men and women that are being used for nefarious purposes. So, maybe there is no need to condemn them, but neither is there any reason to make them into saints. They are part of a criminal operation. How are they different from anyone else involved in a criminal operation? We all do what we know how to do.

[Redbeard]

YAARRRGH!

Drudge isn't a credible source yee land lubbers, it's best t' reseach t' topic before hoppin on yer peg leg t' conclusions.

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/08/25/...right.php#more

Vigil At Walter Reed Hospital Distorted By Right John Gibson expressed shock that anti war protesters outside of Walter Reed Hospital would want to purposely hurt soldiers. Hannity on his radio show today,harped about these so called protests continuously. However, when Kevin McCarron, a Veteran for Peace, appeared with Gibson a very different story emerged making it clear that this smear was hastily created to counter Cindy Sheehan and to divert attention from the announcement that Walter Reed Hospital is closing.8/25/05 Kevin McCarron told Gibson that this vigil began in March to make the public aware that the soldiers wounded in Iraq are being brought to Walter Reed in the darkness of night. McCarron claimed that when the vigil started it was ignored and has only recently been noticed.

Who would brin' their went t' Davy Jones' locker home at night without a lantern?

[Chris]

Quote by: Redbeard YAARRRGH! Drudge isn't a credible source yee land lubbers, it's best t' reseach t' topic before hoppin on yer peg leg t' conclusions.

I agree.

[belverron]

Do the rules say anything about piracy? because that's just plain annoying.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Quote by: belverron Do the rules say anything about piracy? because that's just plain annoying.

I see how it is, intolerant towards pirates are ya? Who are you to judge him?!?!

[Redbeard]

Quote by: belverron Do the rules say anything about piracy? because that's just plain annoying.

Aye, no, Me didn't read anythin' about us pirates not bein' allowed t' post