CHINA News:

[righthand]

China buys Canadian oil company for $5 billion
CTV.ca News Staff
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...ub=CTVNewsAt11

China's biggest state-owned oil company has plunked down more than $5 billion to buy Calgary-based oil company PetroKazakhstan. CNPC International made the purchase on Monday. That company is a wholly-owned subsidiary of China National Petroleum Corp., one of the world's 10 biggest oil companies. "I understand that so far this year, it would be the second-largest transaction of oil and gas in the world," said Bernard F. Isautier, PetroKazakhstan's CEO. CNPCI out-bid an Indian company, ONGC-Mittal. That firm had offered $4.33 billion for PetroKazakhstan.

Experts predict Kazakhstan will become one of the world's top oil producers over the next two decades. According to the CIA World Fact-book, the estimated current proved reserves are 26 billion barrels. Production was estimated in 2004 to be 1.2 million barrels per day. PetroKazakhstan is the third-largest oil producer in that country. Purchasing PetroKazakhstan is part of a pattern by China. Some oil producers are starting to seek China's business. For example, Venezuela, which has strained relations with the United States, has just had its state oil company open an office in China. "China's a big customer, and they're hungry for oil," said University of Calgary business professor Bob Schulz.

There are foreign ownership restrictions in the telecoms and airline industries, but virtually none for the oil and gas business. In the US, some lawmakers saw a Chinese bid for the oil company Unocal as a national security threat. CNOOC, the Chinese company making the bid, withdrew it earlier this month after what it called "unprecedented political opposition."

Cheney is expected to visit Alberta next month. A tour of the oil sands is thought to be on his grubby agenda.

[Rainbow]

It looks like China has it all.
First, China has decided to build a direct-pipeline (with all the costs paid by Chinese government) from Caspian Sea, and now China owns that oil company as well.
It does not surprize me, since China needs more oil (appx. 40% !!!) in an attempt to keep up and compete with leading states. Adding to it the fact, that China has 1 million military personnel (appx. 1.25 million), I wonder any attempts to destroy that enterprise (read : a pipline) would not bring reaction(s).
Since the oil is becoming the "XXI century's black gold", China is just one of states that heavily relies on it, since no breakthrough appears on a technological and scientific horizon that may be taken as a substitute and/or a replacement for the oil, respectively (as of today).

[righthand]

Quote by: Rainbow It looks like China has it all. First, China has decided to build a direct-pipeline (with all the costs paid by Chinese government) from Caspian Sea, and now China owns that oil company as well. It does not surprise me, since China needs more oil (appx. 40% !!!) in an attempt to keep up and compete with leading states. Adding to it the fact, that China has 1 million military personnel (appx. 1.25 million), I wonder any attempts to destroy that enterprise (read : a pipeline) would not bring reaction(s). Since the oil is becoming the "XXI century's black gold", China is just one of states that heavily relies on it, since no breakthrough appears on a technological and scientific horizon that may be taken as a substitute and/or a replacement for the oil, respectively (as of today).

Does it remind you of the situation pre-WW2. That was a war for resources, Japan having none. It was know that Japan had two choices; knuckle under to an unfair but peaceful as-it-is-situation; or make a grab for what it needed.

China attempted the capitalist game of bidding for a company on the open market recently. It was rebuffed as if they were attempting to buy the White House. Two points. The rival bidder, another US firm saw off it's challenge and got the US firm for a bargain. Second, China is the BIGGEST corporation in the WORLD. It will not lose face. It will buy bigger now than before to make the original deal look like peanuts.

Many months ago I posted the idea of US via THE REST, due to US foreign policy. With oil, it has now coming to pass. Stage two, read on...

[CENTER]BBC ...China-Russia games in final stage
Tuesday, 23 August 2005, 06:07 GMT 07:07 UK [/CENTER]

[CENTER] [/CENTER]

The Chinese-Russian military exercise which the two countries are staging for the first time moved to its third and final stage on Tuesday. Over the coming three days, more than 7,000 Chinese troops and 1,800 Russian soldiers will be taking part in live-fire combat practice. Navy and air force units will also be involved in the manoeuvres. The exercises will culminate in an amphibious landing on the Shandong Peninsula in China. The two countries say the aim of the exercise is to practise for a peacekeeping operation, but correspondents say it is also meant to highlight the new, closer ties between Beijing and Moscow - both of which have expressed concern over US dominance in world affairs.

Russia is now one of China's top arms suppliers

Nothing will/can change while georgie is in the White House. The Rest will get more united against the US bullying.

[Athena]

Fascinating! I wish I were so wealthy I could travel to China and be welcomed by the top people, so that I could enter the inner circles and listen to their explanation of why the sleeping dragon is wake and so active? Is this what we intended when we set out to globalize world markets? Like I was sitting alone for years, wondering what in hell were US leaders thinking, industrializing the rest of the world with an attitude of superiority and as though finite resources and infinite.

Do you think the US can continue to increase its consumption of oil as though there is no limit to it? Allowing gas guzzling vechicles on the road, seems insane to me, and sadly a large part of our local economy is two huge manufactures of buses for private use.
If we recognize the insanity of these gas guzzlers, our local economy is going to hurt big time!

[Zeebadee]

China sells junk to the U.S. and uses the money it makes to guarantee delivery of the oil it will need in the future to keep it's economy growing. The U.S. sells T-Bills that will eventually have to be paid off, and uses the money for continued deficit spending and war.

[Athena]

Quote by: Zeebadee China sells junk to the U.S. and uses the money it makes to guarantee delivery of the oil it will need in the future to keep it's economy growing. The U.S. sells T-Bills that will eventually have to be paid off, and uses the money for continued deficit spending and war.

This does not sound good for the US. Sometimes I like to stick my head in the sand. I don't US citizens have a good understanding of their national wealth and what is happening to it. Smile, come to think of it- it would be great if I stuck my head in the sand and found oil. That would be as good as find a money tree.

[Rainbow]

Quote by: righthand Does it remind you of the situation pre-WW2. That was a war for resources, Japan having none. It was know that Japan had two choices; knuckle under to an unfair but peaceful as-it-is-situation; or make a grab for what it needed. Many months ago I posted the idea of US via THE REST, due to US foreign policy. With oil, it has now coming to pass. Stage two, read on... [CENTER]BBC ...China-Russia games in final stage Tuesday, 23 August 2005, 06:07 GMT 07:07 UK [/CENTER] [CENTER] [/CENTER] Russia is now one of China's top arms suppliers Nothing will/can change while georgie is in the White House. The Rest will get more united against the US bullying.

#1
Once being Japan's "teacher" (read : as China claims it created and developed fundation(s) for Japanese existance, culture, religion, ect.) to become its own "student's slave" (Japanese occupation, during WWII), now China is going to follow Japan's past ?
I do not think it is the case, despite that some issues seem to match it.

China with its population growing up, needs to provide its people with all the necessary goods, services, ect. China needs to make a progress in technological solutions, developements that would bring in an assurance China is fully recognized as the one of the top and/or leading states around the globe.
That is why China must develope a computting-based field. It requires additional energy consumption, technological brand-new solutions (or major modifications, at least). That takes time and money.

As of today, China has gathered all the fundamental components, in order to make a technological progress (at least). To complete the whole step forward, China would like to take over Taiwan. Assuming that it happens, then one of the major electronic developer, supplier (what Taiwan is today) is gone. An extremely significant blow to U.S. and Western electronics-related technologies, developements, markets, economy, ect.
Whether China is readying for that step (read: "acquire" Taiwan), we may guess, while this scenario does not appear to become reality today. However, "tomorrow" may change the "today"s reality, and we need to include that option in plans scheduled ahead of that time, espacially since appx. 1.25 million military personnel is not being upkept for "making pizza".

#2, #3, #4
Russia has lost of its ("cold-war era") mighty power, in recent days.
Admministrative and economical matters trouble Russia, today. That reflects that state's political, military, economy - related issues. Russia is the state located on both continents : European and Asian, respectively. It must upkeep the balance between.

If Russia becomes (somehow) affiliated and/or associated (or even an ally) with China, you may be rested assured that NATO will re-extend its range of influence in Eastern Europe.
That would be a necessity, since China along with Russia may "resurect" the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact's copy in XXI century, by replacing names only. We can not exclude that option.
I do not think Russia would opt for an aliance with China, though. If "yes", WWIII realisticaly surfaces and China along with Russia are losers. Not only that, but some other states will get demand their lands back ( read : Japan, Finland, ect.) and they meet their demands, since the victorious party dictates all the conditions after a winning battle/war.
It seems that Russia plays some games with China. Russia would like to have Western and U.S. made technologies, goods, ect. while creating an image of being a supower-power, still.

Whether U.S. might be perceived as a "bully", that is a result of an angle an observer can view the whole situation under. U.S. wants to provide its people with all the necessary goods, in order exist and make a progress.
Unfortunatelly, there is not a substitute and/or a replacement as a solution for new energy source, while that energy is a driven source to a state's economy, finance, marketting, business enterprise, jobs, ect.

P.S.
Even the (whole) "Rest" can not destroy U.S.
It would destroy itself as well, since U.S. economy, market, finance, ect. is a part of that "Rest".

[righthand]

China attempted the capitalist game of bidding for a company on the open market recently. It was rebuffed as if they were attempting to buy the White House. Two points. The rival bidder, another US firm saw off it's challenge and got the US firm for a bargain. Second, China is the BIGGEST corporation in the WORLD. It will not lose face. It will buy bigger now than before to make the original deal look like peanuts.

[CENTER]Then it plonks down more than $5 billion to buy Calgary-based oil company PetroKazakhstan.[/CENTER]


China has not shown itself to be expansionist either in recent or in many millennium of history. There was one 'extra border' event where it got a bloody nose that most will have forgotten that will reinforce this policy. Yes it took Tibet. This and other satellites were regarded as part of China. It was sought only that Taiwan acknowledge its parentage.

If I had to be a neighbour of either the US or China, who would I choose. My heart would say the USA but my brain and history would say China EVERY TIME.

This would not alone be based on the top American diplomat is a first class BULLY.

It would not be based on military power at ALL. Watching Iraq and other recent escapades of the US military, I don't believe you have more than a big damp bang to offer. I'm reminded in history of Genghis Khan and his horde sweeping aside the hugely powerful knights on their tanks of horses. While contemplating this, remember the Iraq-Iran War. That was virtually men against machine, with the machines being American. The men won. The US has no idea what is intending taking on if it invades IRAN. Iraq will seem like a cakewalk compared. Attacking Iran while not subduing Iraq is so crazy that only this administration would even contimplate it.

I got this out of the way early as Americans only see this US via The REST in a military sense. The list of reasons is far longer than the military and Bolton.

Flip flap was a great expression in the last election. Well here's another flip flap. Now neocons will be totally blind to this so save time and jump forward. The biggest FLIP FLOP in a decade was the relationship of the Bush administration with the UNITED NATIONS, and the flipping and flopping was not done by the UNITED NATIONS. The bush gang are brilliant at accusing others of exactly what they are best at themselves. On at least three occasions I have asked that those bush-lights that repeat UN accusations that they would substantiate their platitudes. No evidence yet!

It's not that you have a neanderthal who doesn't believe in dinosaurs, leading your government. Nor nuts that believe the earth is younger than we have man-made structures in Ireland. Nor that you tear yourselves apart over a lady dead for a decade while executing criminals, who all seem to be all black. Nor your love for bio-crops while preventing stem cell research. No, these all go in the 'Only In America' box that we in 'old' Europe take out often to see how sane we are over here.

It little things when you unilaterally breach internally agreed agreements on the environment. When the biggest polluter on the planet decides to continue in its old bad bad ways. When short term gain is GOD and the planet's health doesn't get a look in. When even the little environment protection law of your own country doesn't matter.

It like then you brow beat us to eventually agree trade agreements and then are the first to breaches the rules. And who do you bully most, of course it is those countries who can least stand up to your bullying.

I touched on a few of the reasons why its not wise to rely on the US. There are a huge range of internal problems that are your business but seem to be uniquely US problems for some reason. The is one item that effects your relationship with virtually the rest of the world. It was this issue that sparked my initially interest in what was going on in the US, as it just made NO sense to me. After being up close to the topic, it still makes NO sense to me.

The issue of course is Israel. Your relationship with the world is defined by your relationship with Israel. I believe that behind the sharp cutting remarks that I'm a reasonable person who very much wants to understand what is all about. It is costing you so so much in Money, Prestige, Relationships, 9/11, Iraq deaths, and on and on and I cannot fathom a logic to it. I'm convinced that the fundamental christians have been subverted in a pre-Christ religion. Where love your neighbour is now kill thy neighbour. Where the Ten Beatitude are replaced entirely by Ten Commandment. Do you see love or hate in America? Maybe I could not have got away with asking this before Pat Robertson's kill speech. Now a church leader calls for murder.

Last week when there was wall to wall coverage on CNN of the illegal settlers, which side were your sympathies with. Was it the well disciplined police and troops on the receiving end of acid, paint and anything else. Or was it with the illegal settlers, half a step from full terrorists. Who's side were you on. After you have answered, maybe, then I have a further observation. First, tell me the number of threads started on the hottest topic, the top story of two days. America the brave, or America the embarrassed, or America the what. All waiting for some one else to start a thread? If I did it would have been predictable. Right Matt? No, I deliberately held fire. My observation? If those well trained police and soldiers had show one tenth of that discipline in the last 30 years, would the Middle East be in the mess it is now. Does their discipline when dealing with fellow jews not prove that Israel is RACIST!!!

[Matt W]

What exactly has this got to do with China news, righthand? If you want to rant about Israel & the US, then by all means start a thread on it....but try and stay on-topic in your own stuff.

[Rainbow]

righthand

Off Topic
I am not sure whom are you trying to address off-topic data to.
To yourself ?

On Topic

China's biggest state-owned oil company has plunked down more than $5 billion to buy Calgary-based oil company PetroKazakhstan

That deal indicates that 5 billion U.S. dollars is a lot of money in Kazakhstan, for that state-ruled business enterprise. Either Kazakhstan needs money so badly, or Chinese delt with not so "smart businessmen".
However it does not mean China has a control over the oil, in the Caspian Sea area.
It means that China needs a steady oil supplies, in order to meet its grwoing demands for that energy source.

[oranged]

Quote by: Rainbow I do not think Russia would opt for an aliance with China, though. If "yes", WWIII realisticaly surfaces and China along with Russia are losers. Not only that, but some other states will get demand their lands back ( read : Japan, Finland, ect.)

China and Russia is growing to hate America, my thoery is that WWW3 would be an endlessly devastating war with America on one side, China and Russia on another, North Korea on another side. I think Brittain will be expelled from the EU and take America's side, The EU would be another side, then Israel, then Suunies and shiites, will be fighting each other and America.

[righthand]

Quote by: oranged China and Russia is growing to hate America, my theory is that WWW3 would be an endlessly devastating war with America on one side, China and Russia on another, North Korea on another side. I think Britain will be expelled from the EU and take America's side, The EU would be another side, then Israel, then Sunnies and Shiites, will be fighting each other and America.

Japan pre-WW2
The Haves

China+Russia+Indonesia +ALL Latin America+ALL Middle East

Mexico+EU+India+Turkey+Egypt+Philippines

Neutral Japan+New Zealand+Canada+Africa+Pakistan

[CENTER]-------[/CENTER]

The Have Nots

USA+Australia+UK+Israel