Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

Mr.Vicchio · Feb 24, 2004, 06:25 pm

I have my definition, and many Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans can call themselves Patriots and still have major differences.

There is one group tho, one group, that shoudl be publically shamed for trying to use that to describe themselves.

Anyone, Left or right, and generally almost exclusivly, liberals are in this group, are those that would hand any power, control over the direction of the USA, or the rights granted to its citizens, to the United Nations or the World Court.

Those people are in no way patriots, of any level.

The_Broken_Column · Feb 24, 2004, 06:27 pm

A person who supports the original ideals of the nation and fights for them. That excludes any Liberals today.

As I often say, "Everyone is patriotic, but only some are patriots." The difference being everyone loves their country or such, but only some love what it was supposed to always be. They are "Constitutionalists" and such who don't wish to see this nation turn into a Democracy, and rights given to anyone who complains.

Slapjak · Feb 24, 2004, 06:37 pm

I think this is an interesting point you brought up...I think a patriot is one who fights and is willing to suffer (death, injury, loss of materialistic things, loss of dignity, etc...) for their cause, whether it be independence or the protection of their country.

Mr.Vicchio · Feb 24, 2004, 06:44 pm

That is a good point Slapjak. I am in the military, and would give my life tomorrow to protect the USA.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 24, 2004, 07:30 pm

pa·tri·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-t, -t)
n.

One who loves, supports, and defends one's country.

IE - a sheep who follows its shepard anywhere...including over the edge of a cliff.

Mr.Vicchio · Feb 24, 2004, 07:37 pm

Defending and loving ones country doesn't mean you can't disagree with where it is headed.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 24, 2004, 08:01 pm

My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.

Mathieu · Feb 24, 2004, 08:08 pm

A patriot is something you can call yourself to difference you of everyone who do not think like you . Then you can feel superior , feel that warm and fuzzy feeling when you encounter sheep who think like you, or get that adrenaline rush when you and your gang gloat about how good they are and how bad everyone else is.

Mr.Vicchio · Feb 24, 2004, 08:13 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)
My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>People that don't believe in countries have strange ideas of how the world works.... really you just lost me there.

Slapjak · Feb 24, 2004, 08:14 pm

Why is it that people who support our country or support the ideals that our country were founded on are considered "sheep"?

james? · Feb 24, 2004, 08:16 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)
My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yeah, that's probably true, but it's not always a bad thing to be a sheep.

Mr.Vicchio · Feb 24, 2004, 08:17 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Slapjak,)
Why is it that people who support our country or support the ideals that our country were founded on are considered "sheep"?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Cause the elitist feel such notions are passe.

Actually, the truth is that mularky is used to try and make such people look like fools. The reason? the enlightenned ones saying "sheeple" realize the threat traditional american values have on thier ideals.

tman_ndsu08 · Feb 24, 2004, 08:19 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (james?,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)
My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yeah, that's probably true, but it's not always a bad thing to be a sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

i think maybe you mean that sometimes you don't have a choice if someone else will get to decide your actions for you....but whenever you have the chance to choose for yourself...do it! It's the only freedom anyone has.

james? · Feb 24, 2004, 08:35 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,)
i think maybe you mean that sometimes you don't have a choice if someone else will get to decide your actions for you....but whenever you have the chance to choose for yourself...do it! It's the only freedom anyone has.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

No, I'm saying that, for instance, I'm a sheep because I believe in libertarian ideals that others also believe in and that others have conceived before I ever did. I don't think this is a bad thing.

Major Billy · Feb 24, 2004, 09:43 pm

No, this isn't a "doctored photo".

Feb 24, 2004, 10:51 pm

Patriots are those people who love and support America and its people above all other peoples and all other countries. We support our traditional American language (English), history, holidays and traditions. America was a former English colony, and we revere the Founding Fathers of our nation. We do NOT support teaching that says that 'all cultures are equally valid' - certainly Western European civilization, our roots, created the industrial revolution and the modern state that we enjoy today.

We support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - which come from the ideals of Thomas Paine and the Enlightenment. We are the first country whose governing rules are based on 'the rights of the people' rather than having a government run by a tyrant placed there by some war, conquest or 'god.'

Certainly the people who think that America should let the UN or WTO control America are traitors - not patriots. And those who provide jobs and health care to Iraqis before providing those things to Americans are also traitors. Companies who fail to support their American communities with jobs paying decent wages and benefits should be exiled from America. Capitalism is only great when the companies are small enough to be real community members, as they were during the founding century of our country.

We American workers who have been discarded by large transnational corporations are asking Americans to be patriots and vote out of office all those politicians who are owned (or bought) by India, China etc. or who support GATT, NAFTA, WTO etc. We say AMERICA FIRST!

Valerie

Mathieu · Feb 24, 2004, 10:56 pm

Welcome to the American empire !!

Were are the citizen , we chooose ! Other pay for it!! As long as my butt in AMMMMMrkikaaaa see nothing of it !! yahhh

sieg heil patriot !!!!

terstorm · Feb 25, 2004, 01:27 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mathieu,)
Welcome to the American empire !!

Were are the citizen , we chooose ! Other pay for it!! As long as my butt in AMMMMMrkikaaaa see nothing of it !! yahhh

sieg heil patriot !!!!<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Oh jeeze Mathieu...

My definition: anyone who loves their country enough to help it out in any matter they see fit. I think that's neutral enough for all the nationalities represented here, since there are nearly 200 countries in the world so there's probably nearly 200 different patriotisms. I also think that's neutral enough to cover left/right/conservative/liberal/isolationist/internationalist/ and everything in between.

Mathieu · Feb 25, 2004, 01:37 am

You know i'm joking

I love sarcasm ....

But is there a world patriotism ?

Can I be a citizen of the world , patriot ?

terstorm · Feb 25, 2004, 01:46 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mathieu,)
You know i'm joking I love sarcasm ....

But is there a world patriotism ?

Can I be a citizen of the world , patriot ?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I suppose(and I prepare to be flamed on this) there could be a world patriotism. I dunno how that would work though. Care to explain what you're thinking?

Feb 24, 2004, 06:25 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	I have my definition, and many Liberals, Conservatives, Democrats and Republicans can call themselves Patriots and still have major differences. There is one group tho, one group, that shoudl be publically shamed for trying to use that to describe themselves. Anyone, Left or right, and generally almost exclusivly, liberals are in this group, are those that would hand any power, control over the direction of the USA, or the rights granted to its citizens, to the United Nations or the World Court. Those people are in no way patriots, of any level. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Feb 24, 2004, 06:37 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Slapjak FARMHOUSE Location: Florida State University Posts: 33	I think this is an interesting point you brought up...I think a patriot is one who fights and is willing to suffer (death, injury, loss of materialistic things, loss of dignity, etc...) for their cause, whether it be independence or the protection of their country. Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. -Robert E. Lee

Feb 24, 2004, 06:44 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	That is a good point Slapjak. I am in the military, and would give my life tomorrow to protect the USA. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Feb 24, 2004, 07:37 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Defending and loving ones country doesn't mean you can't disagree with where it is headed. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Feb 24, 2004, 08:13 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,) My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>People that don't believe in countries have strange ideas of how the world works.... really you just lost me there. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Feb 24, 2004, 06:27 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
The_Broken_Column Sedimentary Rock Posts: 10	A person who supports the original ideals of the nation and fights for them. That excludes any Liberals today. As I often say, "Everyone is patriotic, but only some are patriots." The difference being everyone loves their country or such, but only some love what it was supposed to always be. They are "Constitutionalists" and such who don't wish to see this nation turn into a Democracy, and rights given to anyone who complains.

Feb 24, 2004, 07:30 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	pa·tri·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ptr-t, -t) n. One who loves, supports, and defends one's country. IE - a sheep who follows its shepard anywhere...including over the edge of a cliff.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:01 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:08 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Mathieu Igneous Magma Location: Montreal Posts: 216	A patriot is something you can call yourself to difference you of everyone who do not think like you . Then you can feel superior , feel that warm and fuzzy feeling when you encounter sheep who think like you, or get that adrenaline rush when you and your gang gloat about how good they are and how bad everyone else is.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:14 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Slapjak FARMHOUSE Location: Florida State University Posts: 33	Why is it that people who support our country or support the ideals that our country were founded on are considered "sheep"? Get correct views of life, and learn to see the world in its true light. It will enable you to live pleasantly, to do good, and, when summoned away, to leave without regret. -Robert E. Lee

Feb 24, 2004, 08:16 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,) My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yeah, that's probably true, but it's not always a bad thing to be a sheep.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:17 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Slapjak,) Why is it that people who support our country or support the ideals that our country were founded on are considered "sheep"?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Cause the elitist feel such notions are passe. Actually, the truth is that mularky is used to try and make such people look like fools. The reason? the enlightenned ones saying "sheeple" realize the threat traditional american values have on thier ideals. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Feb 24, 2004, 08:19 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (james?,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,) My point is that people who actually believe in the concept of a "country" are sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yeah, that's probably true, but it's not always a bad thing to be a sheep.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> i think maybe you mean that sometimes you don't have a choice if someone else will get to decide your actions for you....but whenever you have the chance to choose for yourself...do it! It's the only freedom anyone has.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:35 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (tman_ndsu08,) i think maybe you mean that sometimes you don't have a choice if someone else will get to decide your actions for you....but whenever you have the chance to choose for yourself...do it! It's the only freedom anyone has.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> No, I'm saying that, for instance, I'm a sheep because I believe in libertarian ideals that others also believe in and that others have conceived before I ever did. I don't think this is a bad thing.

Feb 24, 2004, 09:43 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Major Billy Molten Ash Posts: 90	No, this isn't a "doctored photo". >>>--~(ô¿ô)~--->

Feb 24, 2004, 10:51 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
valchau Guest Posts: n/a	Patriots are those people who love and support America and its people above all other peoples and all other countries. We support our traditional American language (English), history, holidays and traditions. America was a former English colony, and we revere the Founding Fathers of our nation. We do NOT support teaching that says that 'all cultures are equally valid' - certainly Western European civilization, our roots, created the industrial revolution and the modern state that we enjoy today. We support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - which come from the ideals of Thomas Paine and the Enlightenment. We are the first country whose governing rules are based on 'the rights of the people' rather than having a government run by a tyrant placed there by some war, conquest or 'god.' Certainly the people who think that America should let the UN or WTO control America are traitors - not patriots. And those who provide jobs and health care to Iraqis before providing those things to Americans are also traitors. Companies who fail to support their American communities with jobs paying decent wages and benefits should be exiled from America. Capitalism is only great when the companies are small enough to be real community members, as they were during the founding century of our country. We American workers who have been discarded by large transnational corporations are asking Americans to be patriots and vote out of office all those politicians who are owned (or bought) by India, China etc. or who support GATT, NAFTA, WTO etc. We say AMERICA FIRST! Valerie

Feb 24, 2004, 10:56 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
Mathieu Igneous Magma Location: Montreal Posts: 216	Welcome to the American empire !! Were are the citizen , we chooose ! Other pay for it!! As long as my butt in AMMMMMrkikaaaa see nothing of it !! yahhh sieg heil patriot !!!!

Feb 25, 2004, 01:27 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
terstorm Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 60	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mathieu,) Welcome to the American empire !! Were are the citizen , we chooose ! Other pay for it!! As long as my butt in AMMMMMrkikaaaa see nothing of it !! yahhh sieg heil patriot !!!!<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Oh jeeze Mathieu... My definition: anyone who loves their country enough to help it out in any matter they see fit. I think that's neutral enough for all the nationalities represented here, since there are nearly 200 countries in the world so there's probably nearly 200 different patriotisms. I also think that's neutral enough to cover left/right/conservative/liberal/isolationist/internationalist/ and everything in between. <span style='color:blue'>Things Fall Apart---the centre cannot hold</span> Storm

Feb 25, 2004, 01:37 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Mathieu Igneous Magma Location: Montreal Posts: 216	You know i'm joking I love sarcasm .... But is there a world patriotism ? Can I be a citizen of the world , patriot ?

Feb 25, 2004, 01:46 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
terstorm Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 60	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mathieu,) You know i'm joking I love sarcasm .... But is there a world patriotism ? Can I be a citizen of the world , patriot ?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I suppose(and I prepare to be flamed on this) there could be a world patriotism. I dunno how that would work though. Care to explain what you're thinking? <span style='color:blue'>Things Fall Apart---the centre cannot hold</span> Storm