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LiveAndLetLive · Feb 24, 2004, 03:59 pm

I pose this question because I'd long felt we did not. I don't hold that view, and here's why.

If we've learned anything from 9/11 and its aftermath, it's that good intelligence can be vital. It could be helpful in averting such tragedies, and in finding the perpetrators of such acts, which are not necessarily governments.

So, while I'm Jeffersonian in the idea that government governs best when it governs least, I view "intelligence" as an extension of national defense, which, for the forseeable future, is necessary.

Comments most welcome.

LiveAndLetLive

FreedomFirst · Feb 24, 2004, 04:05 pm

Here are some great articles about national defense and how our defensive strategy should appear. They are truly amazing pieces of thought:

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/di...hip_nemesis.htm

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/no...n_antijihad.htm

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/mi...s_neighbors.htm

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/mi...nty_hunters.htm
IMPORTANT ARTICLE!

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/te...est_defense.htm

http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/at...switzerland.htm
IMPORTANT ARTICLE!

The two "important articles" are the most on-subject and provide the widest picture of true American defense.

LiveAndLetLive · Feb 24, 2004, 04:53 pm

My post says we need the CIA for the "foreseeable future." The Swiss model ain't too bad, but we're nowhere near a neutral foreign and defense policy.

I'm all for extricating from the tangled web of foreign affairs, but don't we have the right to defend ourselves? I think yes. Therefore, I support a good intelligence gathering apparatus. Were the US ever to extricate itself from all this nonsense, we could look at unwinding the CIA and DIA, not until then.

RebelWithanAK · Feb 24, 2004, 05:47 pm

You could have just posted one link, not six, FreedomFirst. It's all the same site.

james? · Feb 24, 2004, 08:12 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (LiveAndLetLive,)
I'm all for extricating from the tangled web of foreign affairs, but don't we have the right to defend ourselves? I think yes.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yeah, we do, but definitely not to the extent that we can infringe upon others' freedoms in the name of our defense. To me, it's always seemed like that's the CIA's specialty.

Poetic_Justice · Feb 24, 2004, 09:38 pm

I should move to Switzerland... Hoem of John Calvin, great amonuts of freedom, and neutrality.. unfortunately they joined the UN :(

But on to the topic. I don't much like the idea of the CIA, or CSIS in Canada's case. I trust military intelligence a lot more than government intelligence. Agencies like the RCMP, CSIS, CIA, FBI, and BATF all have too many powers in spying upon the common citizen, and in holding or imprisoning them. You'd be surprised what they can do to you to protect 'national security'. at least Military Intelligence is limited to direct attacks on the peoples of the nation. They don't try and give themselves wide powers to stop something that may be "culturally/societally harmful". They merely concern themselves with direct intention to harm. They also don't have the power to detain you for unlimited amounts of time, though under martial law they can keep you for a couple weeks. Finally, Military Intelligence spooks put in time in the field, put in time in basic, and are first and foremost people, they joined to defend their country, not because they were whiz kids and the CIA recruited them.

From freedom, Prosperity,
Dave

castille · Feb 25, 2004, 08:00 am

Every country needs intelligence.

The CIA is to America what eyes are to a person. You need to be able to see.

Also, the reason CIA always meddled in other countries affairs is because the KGB (Soviet intelligence) meddled in other countries too.

Its called "Cold War".

joegvb · Feb 25, 2004, 12:05 pm

I think the CIA is a vital part of the defense system. But like every other part of the system it has flaws and it is going to have flaws until the day we all die. We need the CIA for too many things to just altogether do away with it. Its important that we keep this and all agencies like this alive and running.

More from me later,

JOE

FreedomFirst · Feb 25, 2004, 03:30 pm

Six links to six different articles...which all happen to be from the same site. I'll save you guys the trouble of navigating, as all six are relevant to the person's question.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
You could have just posted one link, not six, FreedomFirst. It's all the same site.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Feb 24, 2004, 04:05 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
FreedomFirst Molten Ash Posts: 67	Here are some great articles about national defense and how our defensive strategy should appear. They are truly amazing pieces of thought: http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/di...hip_nemesis.htm http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/no...n_antijihad.htm http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/mi...s_neighbors.htm http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/mi...nty_hunters.htm IMPORTANT ARTICLE! http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/te...est_defense.htm http://freedom.orlingrabbe.com/lfetimes/at...switzerland.htm IMPORTANT ARTICLE! The two "important articles" are the most on-subject and provide the widest picture of true American defense. "You have to question when a person says, 'I have a great idea, let's make everyone __________.' If it's such a great idea, why do you have to make people do it?" www.freestateproject.org

Feb 24, 2004, 05:47 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	You could have just posted one link, not six, FreedomFirst. It's all the same site. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Feb 24, 2004, 08:12 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
james? Molten Ash Location: Minnesota Posts: 84	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (LiveAndLetLive,) I'm all for extricating from the tangled web of foreign affairs, but don't we have the right to defend ourselves? I think yes.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yeah, we do, but definitely not to the extent that we can infringe upon others' freedoms in the name of our defense. To me, it's always seemed like that's the CIA's specialty.

Feb 25, 2004, 08:00 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	Every country needs intelligence. The CIA is to America what eyes are to a person. You need to be able to see. Also, the reason CIA always meddled in other countries affairs is because the KGB (Soviet intelligence) meddled in other countries too. Its called "Cold War". Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Feb 25, 2004, 12:05 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
joegvb Molten Ash Location: Somewhere (as we all are) Posts: 39	I think the CIA is a vital part of the defense system. But like every other part of the system it has flaws and it is going to have flaws until the day we all die. We need the CIA for too many things to just altogether do away with it. Its important that we keep this and all agencies like this alive and running. More from me later, JOE Those Who Admit Defeat and Failure are Unfit to Command.

Feb 24, 2004, 03:59 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
LiveAndLetLive Molten Ash Posts: 72	I pose this question because I'd long felt we did not. I don't hold that view, and here's why. If we've learned anything from 9/11 and its aftermath, it's that good intelligence can be vital. It could be helpful in averting such tragedies, and in finding the perpetrators of such acts, which are not necessarily governments. So, while I'm Jeffersonian in the idea that government governs best when it governs least, I view "intelligence" as an extension of national defense, which, for the forseeable future, is necessary. Comments most welcome. LiveAndLetLive

Feb 24, 2004, 04:53 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
LiveAndLetLive Molten Ash Posts: 72	My post says we need the CIA for the "foreseeable future." The Swiss model ain't too bad, but we're nowhere near a neutral foreign and defense policy. I'm all for extricating from the tangled web of foreign affairs, but don't we have the right to defend ourselves? I think yes. Therefore, I support a good intelligence gathering apparatus. Were the US ever to extricate itself from all this nonsense, we could look at unwinding the CIA and DIA, not until then.

Feb 24, 2004, 09:38 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Poetic_Justice Igneous Magma Location: Edmonton, Canada Posts: 209	I should move to Switzerland... Hoem of John Calvin, great amonuts of freedom, and neutrality.. unfortunately they joined the UN :( But on to the topic. I don't much like the idea of the CIA, or CSIS in Canada's case. I trust military intelligence a lot more than government intelligence. Agencies like the RCMP, CSIS, CIA, FBI, and BATF all have too many powers in spying upon the common citizen, and in holding or imprisoning them. You'd be surprised what they can do to you to protect 'national security'. at least Military Intelligence is limited to direct attacks on the peoples of the nation. They don't try and give themselves wide powers to stop something that may be "culturally/societally harmful". They merely concern themselves with direct intention to harm. They also don't have the power to detain you for unlimited amounts of time, though under martial law they can keep you for a couple weeks. Finally, Military Intelligence spooks put in time in the field, put in time in basic, and are first and foremost people, they joined to defend their country, not because they were whiz kids and the CIA recruited them. From freedom, Prosperity, Dave

Feb 25, 2004, 03:30 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
FreedomFirst Molten Ash Posts: 67	Six links to six different articles...which all happen to be from the same site. I'll save you guys the trouble of navigating, as all six are relevant to the person's question. </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) You could have just posted one link, not six, FreedomFirst. It's all the same site.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> "You have to question when a person says, 'I have a great idea, let's make everyone __________.' If it's such a great idea, why do you have to make people do it?" www.freestateproject.org