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tman_ndsu08 · Aug 20, 2005, 01:42 pm

It seems to me that there are some people here who think that the lower class have a right to use the government to make the upper class pay for the lower class' services.

I think that's the biggest flaw of government.

Anyone else?

Hermes · Aug 20, 2005, 01:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

It seems to me that there are some people here who think that the lower class have a right to use the government to make the upper class pay for the lower class' services.

I think that's the biggest flaw of government.

Anyone else?

It seems to me that there are some people here who wish to see western civilization ultimately exterminated, never mind forcing the "rich" to pay for the "poor".

Osborn F Enready · Aug 20, 2005, 02:12 pm

It seems to me that classism is another ism.

If one group seeks and gains an unfair, unjust advantage in law to significantly affect the rights of the other group, it is a form of descrimination or favoritism, which goes against the concept that all men are viewed equal under the eyes of the law.

I am not saying I support any type of socialist ideal.

I think the people T-Man are referring to are people who embrace socialist principles.

Gorgo · Aug 20, 2005, 03:45 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

It seems to me that there are some people here who think that the lower class have a right to use the government to make the upper class pay for the lower class' services.

I think that's the biggest flaw of government.

Anyone else?

Most people think that the wealthy have the right to use the government to make the lower classes pay for the upper classes services.

While they do that, I would agree that government has to attempt to correct the problems that ensue.

Hermes · Aug 20, 2005, 04:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

Most people think that the wealthy have the right to use the government to make the lower classes pay for the upper classes services.

While they do that, I would agree that government has to attempt to correct the problems that ensue.

Why would the wealthy want to tax the poor.. They are poor and have no money.

The government attempts to correct problems faced by the poor involve raising taxes on beer, cable teevee an cigarettes and transfering that revenue into payrolls; while at the same time screaming bloody blue murder about the rich getting richer.

Thankfully for the Democratic party the poor are also not too bright, and are willing to pay more and more for their smokes and still vote in lockstep.

GodBlessAmerica · Aug 20, 2005, 06:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Osborn F Enready

If one group seeks and gains an unfair, unjust advantage in law to significantly affect the rights of the other group, it is a form of descrimination or favoritism, which goes against the concept that all men are viewed equal under the eyes of the law.

I am not saying I support any type of socialist ideal.

I think the people T-Man are referring to are people who embrace socialist principles.

The wealthy by far pay most of the taxes and use the least of the services.
Most wealth is not inherited in this country, but was mostly earned in the current generation.
Most took great risks financially and work outrageous hours a week and employ people.

I'm sure the wealthy don't mind paying a tax, but I think they also do mind the attituded of some that are jealous of their assets. They do mind the politics of class warfare.

One of the Ten Commandments is "Thou shall not covet thy neighbor's goods", so in communism, socialism and class warfare where they covet another's goods, that is a sin!

The poor pay no income tax.

GodBlessAmerica · Aug 20, 2005, 06:20 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Gorgo

Most people think that the wealthy have the right to use the government to make the lower classes pay for the upper classes services.

While they do that, I would agree that government has to attempt to correct the problems that ensue.

Hi Gorgo,

In the United States, the wealthy by far pay the lion's share of all the taxes and the poor pay zero income tax.

Most of the wealth in this country was earned in one generation by special individuals who worked their butt off and probably took risks in starting a business and going through the hell of employing people.

The government has no business redistributing wealth, that is communism.

I can't think of any upper class services the poor pay for. Please make a nice list for us please of examples, because it seems like a total fabrication that logic can't justify.

I know the top 10% of earners pay some rediculous portion of all the income tax. Like some 75-90%.
How the wealthy can be paying far more than they use and still have the poor paying for their serviced doesn't make sense to me. :-)

rez · Aug 20, 2005, 07:15 pm

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

In the United States, the wealthy by far pay the lion's share of all the taxes and the poor pay zero income tax.

The U.S. has the socialist progressive tax system in which those would make 100k a year have to pay 30% in taxes and those that make 10k a year have to pay 3% in taxes.

Quote:

Most of the wealth in this country was earned in one generation by special individuals who worked their butt off and probably took risks in starting a business and going through the hell of employing people.

Yeah, very special individuals who knew how to lie, cheat, and steal while working their butt off.

Quote:

I can't think of any upper class services the poor pay for. Please make a nice list for us please of examples, because it seems like a total fabrication that logic can't justify.

well, without the poor there would be no rich, therefore, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

Quote:

I know the top 10% of earners pay some rediculous portion of all the income tax. Like some 75-90%.
How the wealthy can be paying far more than they use and still have the poor paying for their serviced doesn't make sense to me. :-)

remember: 100k = 30% taxes 10k = 3%......so it is fairly even if you ask me....

Here is GodBlessAmericas logic in a nutshell:::::::: "God bless America and nobody else"

tman_ndsu08 · Aug 20, 2005, 07:54 pm

How is it fair that a person who makes $100K a year pays $30K taxes while a person who makes $10K only pays $300?!

Vee · Aug 20, 2005, 08:20 pm

I think there's no such thing as democracy so it doesn't matter what I think

RVonse · Aug 21, 2005, 12:02 am

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

The wealthy by far pay most of the taxes and use the least of the services..

Do you have a source for this statement? I would have thought the middle class paid more.

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

Most wealth is not inherited in this country, but was mostly earned in the current generation...

Considering all the billions held by the Rockefeller, Dupoint, Wall, etc families I find that very hard to believe. Can you support your statement with a source?

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

Most took great risks financially and work outrageous hours a week and employ people....

Most were born into wealth.

RVonse · Aug 21, 2005, 12:12 am

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

Hi Gorgo,

I can't think of any upper class services the poor pay for. Please make a nice list for us please of examples, because it seems like a total fabrication that logic can't justify.

)

You've got to be kidding. There is nothing but special interest pork going through Congress right now. Who do you think pays for all that crap. The people who make less than 200K/year are the ones getting screwed for it, thats who. If I made a list of all the useless pork put through Congress by upper class lobbies, this thread would be over 100 pages in length. But the biggest services the rich are ripping everyone off right now is with healthcare. They have seen to it that illegal aliens can come to America and use our hospitals free of charge. Its the middle class people that end up with most of the bill.

There is more upper class welfare than poor welfare in America these days.

belverron · Aug 21, 2005, 12:20 am

The upper class does account for the majority of the tax revenue.

Quote:

Quote by: GodBlessAmerica

Most wealth is not inherited in this country, but was mostly earned in the current generation...

Source, please. Bill Gates may account for most of our country's wealth, but he's still only one case

No whining about the fairness of the progressive income tax. If you're paying 30%, you can afford to. I don't know if I think there's a better way, but it'll suffice as far as I'm concerned.

lsbskins1 · Aug 21, 2005, 12:40 am

The lowest 20% make on average 14900.00 a year, pay about 5% of their incomes in taxes and therefore live off of 14155.00 a year. The middle 20%, 51500.00 a year, 20% in taxes, live off of 41200.00 a year and the top 20% average 182700.00 a year, pay 25% in taxes and live off of 137025.00 a year. Which group would you rather belong to, percentage difference in tax rates or no? Percentage of total tax burden is almost an irrelavant statistic. The question is who lives better. Who can afford to have their tax rates go up? Even if the top 20 paid twice as much in taxes as they do, they would still make more than more than 3 times as much as the bottom 20. That is the relavant issue here.

lsbskins1 · Aug 21, 2005, 12:48 am

Oh, and the top 20% control 50 of the nations aggragate income as well, so their tax burden is not that skewed.

lsbskins1 · Aug 21, 2005, 12:56 am

A progressive tax is not class warfare. Rich people drive on the roads, are protected by the same army, and often send their kids to the same schools. They get social security checks when they reach 65 or 62, depending on choice, have their bank deposits protected up to what FDIC covers, get the same police and fire protection, same water, same CIA, same Medicare,etc. So what if they don't get welfare payments. Neither does anyone in the top four fiths. Give me a friggin break, please.

bishop · Aug 21, 2005, 01:18 am

the lower class makes these demands on the upper class because the upper class controls government which screws the lower and middle classes.

GodBlessAmerica · Aug 21, 2005, 01:31 am

Rez, here in CA if you make money, your tax between the Federal and State comes in close to 48%.

If you earn a million, you pay maybe over $400,000 in taxes.

If you earn $15,000, you maybe between the Federal and State you may pay at most 5% or $750.

The person paying the $400,000 is paying a lot of tax, and though they mostly don't mind, they could do without the BS class warfare attitude.

Osborn F Enready · Aug 21, 2005, 10:13 am

My opinion, abolish the IRS, cut down federal government to its bare essentials for national security WHICH MEANS DEFENSE, and not invasion money for pet wars like Iraq, remove all unconstitutional government agencies, and laws.

tman_ndsu08 · Aug 21, 2005, 12:03 pm

LOL!

I love how the liberal spinmasters of this board have done a flip flop on the topic and basically made up a complete lie that the upper class take money from the lower class!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!

If these projects are so dispicable, THEN WHY NOT END TAXES?!

Obviously you lower class morons are getting screwed over by these taxes, so why not end them?!

Aug 20, 2005, 01:42 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	The upper class vs. the lower class It seems to me that there are some people here who think that the lower class have a right to use the government to make the upper class pay for the lower class' services. I think that's the biggest flaw of government. Anyone else?

Aug 20, 2005, 02:12 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	It seems to me that classism is another ism. If one group seeks and gains an unfair, unjust advantage in law to significantly affect the rights of the other group, it is a form of descrimination or favoritism, which goes against the concept that all men are viewed equal under the eyes of the law. I am not saying I support any type of socialist ideal. I think the people T-Man are referring to are people who embrace socialist principles. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Aug 20, 2005, 08:20 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Vee Igneous Magma Posts: 353	I think there's no such thing as democracy so it doesn't matter what I think Australian Parliamentary Simulator Aussies: Welcome to the Rudd Regime Yanks: Welcome to Hell Now Purgatory. Others: G'day mate.

Aug 21, 2005, 12:40 am	#14 (permalink) (top)
lsbskins1 Redskins Rule Location: South-Western Virginia Posts: 2,451	The lowest 20% make on average 14900.00 a year, pay about 5% of their incomes in taxes and therefore live off of 14155.00 a year. The middle 20%, 51500.00 a year, 20% in taxes, live off of 41200.00 a year and the top 20% average 182700.00 a year, pay 25% in taxes and live off of 137025.00 a year. Which group would you rather belong to, percentage difference in tax rates or no? Percentage of total tax burden is almost an irrelavant statistic. The question is who lives better. Who can afford to have their tax rates go up? Even if the top 20 paid twice as much in taxes as they do, they would still make more than more than 3 times as much as the bottom 20. That is the relavant issue here. All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard - Tell me, could that be you? John Kay

Aug 21, 2005, 12:48 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
lsbskins1 Redskins Rule Location: South-Western Virginia Posts: 2,451	Oh, and the top 20% control 50 of the nations aggragate income as well, so their tax burden is not that skewed. All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard - Tell me, could that be you? John Kay

Aug 20, 2005, 07:54 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	How is it fair that a person who makes $100K a year pays $30K taxes while a person who makes $10K only pays $300?!

Aug 21, 2005, 12:56 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
lsbskins1 Redskins Rule Location: South-Western Virginia Posts: 2,451	A progressive tax is not class warfare. Rich people drive on the roads, are protected by the same army, and often send their kids to the same schools. They get social security checks when they reach 65 or 62, depending on choice, have their bank deposits protected up to what FDIC covers, get the same police and fire protection, same water, same CIA, same Medicare,etc. So what if they don't get welfare payments. Neither does anyone in the top four fiths. Give me a friggin break, please. All I see when I look down, something jumpin' on the ground, Scratchin' dirt, cluckin' in the barnyard - Tell me, could that be you? John Kay

Aug 21, 2005, 01:18 am	#17 (permalink) (top)
bishop moderat-e/o-r Location: boston Posts: 11,184	the lower class makes these demands on the upper class because the upper class controls government which screws the lower and middle classes. hope for america... http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

Aug 21, 2005, 01:31 am	#18 (permalink) (top)
GodBlessAmerica Look Stuff Up Posts: 810	Rez, here in CA if you make money, your tax between the Federal and State comes in close to 48%. If you earn a million, you pay maybe over $400,000 in taxes. If you earn $15,000, you maybe between the Federal and State you may pay at most 5% or $750. The person paying the $400,000 is paying a lot of tax, and though they mostly don't mind, they could do without the BS class warfare attitude.

Aug 21, 2005, 10:13 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,873	My opinion, abolish the IRS, cut down federal government to its bare essentials for national security WHICH MEANS DEFENSE, and not invasion money for pet wars like Iraq, remove all unconstitutional government agencies, and laws. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

Aug 21, 2005, 12:03 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	LOL! I love how the liberal spinmasters of this board have done a flip flop on the topic and basically made up a complete lie that the upper class take money from the lower class! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!! If these projects are so dispicable, THEN WHY NOT END TAXES?! Obviously you lower class morons are getting screwed over by these taxes, so why not end them?!