Republican Party Principles=Doodley Squat

[bishop]

my mistake.. after reading your babble for the last couple pages, i forgot what this thread was supposed to be about. thanks for the reminder. :)

[PatrickHenry]

Attack Democrats all you like Zealot. I hate 'em too. THIS thread however, isn't for that. It's for defending your nuts against an independent that is kicking you into into oblivion.

Tom DeLay: Righteous Poser who thinks ethics are for other people, 'cause ANYTHING he does is honorable by definition. After all, he's a Republican Leader.

Quote by: Zealot How can you tell anyone they are slinging mud when told us all you hated Republicans and they were cheats and liars. ! read yourself!

My job on this thread is to sling mud at you slimey Republicans. Your job is to dodge the mud, not scrape it off and sling it at Democrats...

[zynner]

Quote by: rcne I would say that by winning the last two elections the Republicans have proven to be closest to the people. Voters count as people don't they?

Don't change the subject.

First, what you said is not true. The vast majority of people who are eligible to vote did NOT vote for George Bush in 2000 or 2004. The majority did not vote at all. In 2000, more voted for Gore than Bush, and the Reps have conspired with the Dems to lock out third party candidates in both elections. So, if that is your evidence to claim that the Republican Party is closest to the people, it seems to be an extremely weak one.

More important than that, you sidestepped the question posed: Do the Republicans ACTUALLY do as they claim to believe? Rather than answer THAT question, you changed the subject by claiming that the Reps are "closest" to the people. Whatever that means, it is both false and a change of subject.

Talk is cheap. DO the Reps ACTUALLY do as they claim they believe?

Nope. And you should be outraged about it. The Republican politicans just use you, making you feel all warm and fuzzy at election time, and then go about doing the OPPOSITE of what YOU really want. They just use you to get votes -- same as the Dems.

The Republican Party has turned their supporters into a bunch of dupes. You should be pissed off, but I rarely see any Rep supporter who is. All I ever see are apologists. And by refusing to insist on adherence to principle by the Reps, you end up with scandals that make you look no better than the Clinton apologists who sound EXACTLY the same as the Bush apologists.

The rest of us can see this, plain as day. It is only those who refuse to see it who cannot. Open your eyes.

~ zynner

[deedee]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I hate the Republican Party. I think of them as a party full of liars and cheats. I think they are dedicated only to what gets them elected again, so real bedrock principles are secondary to campaign financing and cynical rhetoric with no commitment further than the election. Here is what the Republican Women say about their Party: http://www.nfrw.org/republicans/principles.htm All fine sounding rhetoric, but does it really guide Republican politicians? I don't think so. Any Republican debaters, show me how this stuff really works as policy with examples from the last five years. I am calling out the Republicans on this thread and ignoring Democrats who shall be the target for my attack on another thread.

You must have hated what Abe Lincoln did for the slaves wihle preserving the Union.. Since he was the first Republican pres.

You must have hated Reagan being instrumental in tearing that Berlin wall down.

You must hate for Iraqi's to have their democracy and share freedoms while their oppressor is now behind bars thanks to W Bush.

You're really quite silly to lump all the Repubbies together.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: deedee You must have hated what Abe Lincoln did for the slaves wihle preserving the Union.. Since he was the first Republican pres.

On the contrary, my hatred for "Honest Abe" is based on other criteria. Slavery should have never been a part of the Constitutional framework because the DOI said that all men are created equal. The Framers mistake was to extend membership in the United States to any state that sanctioned human slavery. However the Emancipation Proclamation was not an ideological move by President Lincoln. It was purely pragmatic in the context of the North facing all the losses in the morass of military mistakes and defeats that characterized the first years of the War. Are you truly informed about history or a bit of a dillettante? Not problem with that. I can educate you.

But Lincoln was also a tyrant who trampled the Constitution and suspended habeas corpus for those who opposed his War. Do you support the imposition of martial law, Executive Orders, and loss of Fourth Amendment rights that Lincoln represents? Then you are no Patriot, but a statist who could easily be swept into fascism..

Quote by: deedee You must have hated Reagan being instrumental in tearing that Berlin wall down.

I also hated Reagan for other reasons. You again are misguided if you think he was the proximate cause of the failure of the European Communist systems. They were declining and failing long before President Reagan came onto the scene.

My detestation for Reagan is because of his subversion of the legitimate government in the electoral cycle (the October Surprise) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Surprise

And many other vicious and costly misdeeds while in office.

Quote by: deedee You must hate for Iraqi's to have their democracy and share freedoms while their oppressor is now behind bars thanks to W Bush.

On the contrary, my intentions toard the Iraqi people are entirely peaceful and productive. My antipathy is reserved for your leader, GW Bush, the usurper in the White House. I won't go into an extended explanation of the reasons Bush needs to be executed for his crimes, but there are many threads on this board that have that information...

Quote by: deedee You're really quite silly to lump all the Repubbies together.

Funny thing is, I don't. The rank and file, like you, deedee, are largely misinformed, misguided but goodhearted Americans who have been deceived by the politicians into thinking that the Republican Party stands for some principles. As far as I can see, their "principles" are limited to Greed and Power.

[Clarence]

Quote by: PatrickHenry As far as I can see, their "principles" are limited to Greed and Power.

word! Pat is teh rulez!

[shield772]

So you hate me? You don't even know me or my beliefs or my bedrock principles.

[shield772]

Quote by: PatrickHenry GBA, thanks for responding to my challenge. At least one Republican member is willing to engage in dialog about their Party when it is announced in a bluff and derogatory manner by a "libertarian." To clarify, I am not a Libertarian Party member, but I do find common ground with their political program in certain areas. The party I actually prefer is the Constitution Party, but I don't carry a card of theirs either and disagree on certain points of their program as well. But this thread isn't about me and my preferences. It was a rank challenge to justify how "principles" of the Republican Party are applied where the rubber meets the road, to use a cliche. I think that the Republican Party may have had some principles in the days of Dwight Eisenhower, perhaps in the days of Richard Nixon, even some in the term of Ronald Reagan. Each of those Republican presidents had significant failures during their administrations, but the Party may have had adherence to some principles in those bygone times. Is this played out by the huge corporate donations to the campaign of GW Bush by criminal conspiracies like Enron, that defrauded the citizens of California of billions? Then why are there no elected black Republicans in Congress? Why does the Party have trouble attracting Black leaders? I have plenty more ammunition for any courageous Republicans willing to brave the fusillade. Or will you all hunker in your bunkers and hope that mean PatrickHenry will go away?

So where are the black leaders in the Democratic party, there are plenty of black Republicans, and we had a Black republican in congress who was in our leadership, he resigned, and after the civil war the Republicans put the first blacks into congress.

[shield772]

Quote by: Prometheus Reps got the majority, but %51 can hardly be called a strong statement from the people. I call it the flip of a coin.

I call it a victory, which is all thats required. We won they lost now all they do is obstructionism and criticism, where are their solutions?

[shield772]

Quote by: YourTokah Let's PLURALIZE asap! Or go to a one-party or no-party pure democracy. Republican ideals are like religion - they're handed down from father to son, a little warped and twisted and rooted in individual ignorance. That son grows up and votes in George Dubya, causes a war and thousands of deaths, all because he never took the time to think about what being a "republican" usually really means.

I am a Republican from a family of Democrats (in West Virginia) when I told my family it took them a minute to decide that they loved me anyway. So that shoots that theory out of the water doesn't it.

[shield772]

Quote by: |Chris| Not so true. I am 30. Back in my younger days I never was interested in politics. I was a right wing nutjob such as yourself back in 2000. After 2003 My opinion started to change and I began to see the light. I am no longer a brainwashed kool aid drinker of the right. I am an independant minded person who sees things from both sides. I have had no influence on my departure from the right. It was my own choice. I have paid taxes since 1991. That little bit about "the old are conservative" is a stereotype.

So because I am a Republican I'm a nutjob? I think about everything and I would'nt and could'nt be a member of aparty like the Democrats who are the defenders of murderers, rapists, child molesters, and terrorists.

[Clarence]

Quote by: shield772 I am a Republican from a family of Democrats (in West Virginia) when I told my family it took them a minute to decide that they loved me anyway. So that shoots that theory out of the water doesn't it.

Your parents almost didn't love you because you're a republican? Sorry man, they sound like neo-cons.


So about them priciples of the republican party?



Maybe it's time to start a similar thread on Democrats for fairness sake.

[shield772]

Quote by: Clarence Your parents almost didn't love you because you're a republican? Sorry man, they sound like neo-cons. So about them priciples of the republican party? Maybe it's time to start a similar thread on Democrats for fairness sake.

No they were Democrats. No Conservatives there.

[shield772]

And I agree, where is That thread on the Democrats.

[Osborn F Enready]

I almost fell over in my chair laughing as I watched C-Span today.

I stumbled across this:

Panel Discussion on Future of Republican Party
Representative Jim Leach (R-IA), Representative Charles Bass (R-NH), Alexander Bolton, Senior Staff Writer for The Hill, and Gail Russell Chaddock, Senior Congressional Correspondent for Christian Science Monitor, talk about the future of the Republican Party.


One of the things that got me the most, was when I believe it was Leach, said "The biggest problem with our current age Republican Party is that we have strayed away from our Libertarian core principles...."

I would say that they should have noticed that when a group felt they should take another stab at that effort by creating the Libertarian Party, which is dedicated to preserving the rights the Republicans and Democrats have been trying to remove or regulate for the last 100 years.

Its like the proverbial wolf in sheeps clothing, comparing modern day republican platforms to the core beliefs that they claim set their foundation. The word conservative, and the word republican, should not be in the same sentence any more. If my home had a foundation with as many holes as theirs, it would have toppled a week after being built.

My question is, that after Bush and his adminstrative leaders he picked for their "leadership qualities" have led us into some of the largest debt known to man, at the hands of foreign banks, hammered generations to come with tax burden we can't even imagine yet, and led so many to war against the core beliefs you claim are in your foundation............How could you ever expect to be taken seriously again, especially concerning liberty or JUSTICE?

At least Leach had the stones to address the problem.

The party has been gutted, by the neocon authoritarian movement. Much like the Democratic Party has been gutted, by the neu-liberal wave of nanny-staters, and socialist theorists.

Until both parties realize the simple lesson, we won't have any progress in the two major parties, and the lesser evill will be harder and harder to distinguish with every passing day. Their is no such thing as a lesser evil, if both entail physical and/or economic servitude.

“Fanaticism consists of redoubling your efforts when you have forgotten your aim.”
-George Santayana

To the true core idealist republicans reading this, I say check out the Libertarian Party who stakes their existence on protecting what Republicans long ago strayed from, and now seek to regulate or abolish....... The Limited Central Government specified in the Constitution, the Rights and Protections enumerated in the Bill of Rights, and the economic freedom of a free market with regulated corporations that are regulated by the people, not the elites. Basicly, the system that built this nation with the blood of patriots and tyrants, in the quest for liberty and justice.

Thank you C-Span, for remaining one of the last vestiges for truth and a lack of bias in the wide world of media.

“This country is a one-party country. Half of it is called Republican and half is called Democrat. It doesn't make any difference. All the really good ideas belong to the Libertarians.”
-Hugh Downs, 1997

“The business of skepticism is to be dangerous. Skepticism challenges established institutions. If we teach everybody, including, say, high school students, habits of skeptical thought, they will probably not restrict their skepticism to UFOs, aspirin commercials, and 35,000-year-old channelees. Maybe they'll start asking awkward questions about economic, or social, or political, or religious institutions. Perhaps they'll challenge the opinions of those in power. Then where would we be?”
-Carl Sagan, in The Demon-Haunted World (Sagan encouraged skepticism on all these subjects - he was simply articulating why the establishment is wary of it.)

“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
-Henry Ford, a man admired by Adolf Hitler

“...all of us here at the policy-making level have had experience with directives... from the White House.... The substance of them is that we shall use our grant-making power so as to alter our life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union.”
-H. Rowan Gaither, Jr., President, Ford Foundation, to Norman Dodd, Congressional Reese Commission, 1954

“What luck for the rulers that men do not think.”
-Adolf Hitler

“You know, a long time ago being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy.”
-Charles Manson, leader of a murderous cult of entirely unskeptical followers

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Osborn F Enready To the true core idealist republicans reading this, I say check out the Libertarian Party who stakes their existence on protecting what Republicans long ago strayed from, and now seek to regulate or abolish.

I agree for those Republicans with no christian leanings. But for those who think that the Libertarians are too socially liberal, try the Constitution Party.

In any case the Republicans (pols) have turned away from their base, but attempt to keep a charade going that they are representative of the small town values they once espoused. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are big spending, mega-rich coddling, interventionist Empire builders. They need a good series of torpedoes to take that leaky ol' cruise liner to the bottom... Because in my opinion they are too far gone to change.

[Osborn F Enready]

Patrick said:
In any case the Republicans (pols) have turned away from their base, but attempt to keep a charade going that they are representative of the small town values they once espoused. Nothing could be further from the truth. They are big spending, mega-rich coddling, interventionist Empire builders. They need a good series of torpedoes to take that leaky ol' cruise liner to the bottom... Because in my opinion they are too far gone to change.

I say:
Here here! Maybe we could put Bush at the tip of those torpedoes, since he is by far the world deadliest, most fatal WMD. Give Bush the key to the party funds for both parties, and they will have a deficit no matter how much they raise!

[RickSp]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I agree for those Republicans with no christian leanings. But for those who think that the Libertarians are too socially liberal, try the Constitution Party.

The oddest thing about the Constitution Party is that their views on religion would require the abolishment of the First Amendment. They are not too happy with the idea of the seperation of Church and State. From their preamble:

The Constitution Party gratefully acknowledges the blessing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ as Creator, Preserver and Ruler of the Universe and of these United States. We hereby appeal to Him for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and the protection of His Providence as we work to restore and preserve these United States. This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been and are afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. The goal of the Constitution Party is to restore American jurisprudence to its Biblical foundations and to limit the federal government to its Constitutional boundaries.

They want a Christian Republic. Glory Jee to Besus.

[Osborn F Enready]

I'm sorry Pat, but I have to agree with Rick there.

There is to much religious dogma involved with them to be a real political party who understands a seperation of church and state, in my opinion.

I have said a thousand times how I feel about religion, but no matter how much I dislike or disagree with it, I still have no problem with the religious practicing their beliefs. When religion mixes with politics though, in this country anyway, I believe it should be avoided like the plague.

One of the reasons I abhor the two major parties for trying to shamelessly pander to the religious.

[shield772]

The Constitution does not say seperstion of church and state, there can be religion in government, we can have laws that have religious overtures we have several already, congress can't make laws regarding religion, they can not legislate religion thats it, the only thing it says.