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joegvb · Feb 20, 2004, 11:36 am

Do you think Mel Gibson was right in making the controversial movie the passion? Or is it just a thing to get attention?

I think the media has blown the whole thing way out of proportion. And the fact that nobody would help produce the movie is another thing. I think everyone should go see the movie, even if you disagree with the whole Christianity thing.

Since he had to pay a studio to help produce the movie it shows just how much Mr. Gibson is behind his movie. I don?t think he is anti-Semitic. He just had the guts to produce a very controversial film.

GO MEL!

more from me later,

JOE

kharmajunkie · Feb 20, 2004, 11:50 am

You're giving Mel Gibson way too much credit. He's a Christian (Catholic) in a country that has a Christian majority. Since when does it take guts to be part of the majority. I'm sick of the new
"American martyr" complex. If you're part of the majority, you can't claim to be oppressed. Everyone from the Bushite's to the tree huggers feel the need to be looked upon as oppressed; so they can give
a "we shall overcome" speech of their own. I don't buy it. I'll go see the movie because it looks like a good film; not because a billion
Christians see this as "gospel".

RebelWithanAK · Feb 20, 2004, 11:52 am

Well...

1) The movie is gorier than any other Mel Gibson movie to date... and that's pretty damned hard to do. For one sentence, ie: 'Jesus was put on the cross', we have to sit through over 40 minutes of bleeding and all sorts of nasty shit. It's an R rated movie, and people are bringing their kids to see it.

2) Mel Gibson is a "traditionalist Catholic," which means, among other things, that he does not agree with the Catholic church's forgiving the Jews for selling Christ out. In the movie, the Jews and Arabs are portrayed as some pretty evil fucks, while Pontius Pilate, the rep from the actual occupying powers is portrayed as someone trying to "save" Jesus.

3) No church endorsed the movie, especially not the Catholic church.

We already have interesting movies about biblical times. We don't need this shit.

mlingley · Feb 20, 2004, 02:13 pm

Did you guys hear about the actor who plays Jesus getting struck by lightning during the making of this film? That's kind of bizarre.

Also the assistant director got struck by lightning TWICE!
Makes you wonder.

I think the movie looks good.. I've already bought tickets.

Impenitent · Feb 20, 2004, 03:25 pm

none as realistic as this one... if the bible story is considered real that is...

**Pooeypants** · Feb 20, 2004, 06:24 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,)
Did you guys hear about the actor who plays Jesus getting struck by lightning during the making of this film? That's kind of bizarre.

Also the assistant director got struck by lightning TWICE!
Makes you wonder.

I think the movie looks good.. I've already bought tickets.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
You think the sky fairy is trying to tell us something?

Sodfather · Feb 20, 2004, 10:55 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,)
In the movie, the Jews and Arabs are portrayed as some pretty evil fucks, while Pontius Pilate, the rep from the actual occupying powers is portrayed as someone trying to "save" Jesus.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Man...

What the fuck did you expect, Arabs and Jews giving the man flowers as he carried his cross? They were the cause of Chirst's crucifixion. It wasn't Pilate who wanted to sentence Christ: he gave the people the choice of Barabas or Jesus, he begged Christ to talk and prove his innocence; the only reason Pilate sentenced Christ was out of fear of the people and disobeying their demands. Pilate's actions were pushed solely by the Jews and their council (Pharisees or Saducees or something else, I forget).

As for the film, I believe it will be great. I mean, going as far as to have characters speaking their native tongues like Latin and Arabic tells me that Mel is serious, and also leads be to believe that the movie takes historical accuracy into consideration greatly.

terstorm · Feb 21, 2004, 03:43 am

I'm going to see it to see what all the fuss is about, and maybe laugh at some fundamentalists.

kharmajunkie · Feb 21, 2004, 10:53 am

I find it funny that on the news it showed parents taking their grammar school age children in to see the movie. The same people that
complained that Janet Jackson and "tittiegate" damaged society's children somehow think it isn't damaging to take their kids to an R rated movie that is filled with violence and torture. All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades.

Bragar · Feb 21, 2004, 03:52 pm

K...

"I find it funny that on the news it showed parents taking their grammar school age children in to see the movie. The same people that
complained that Janet Jackson and "tittiegate" damaged society's children somehow think it isn't damaging to take their kids to an R rated movie that is filled with violence and torture. All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades."

How do you know that the parents taking their kids to this movie even watched the Super Bowl? I get annoyed with people who believe they have it all figured out. You've blast these people because you're sure they are the same folks condeming the Jackson titty fiasco. You haven't a clue what these people think!

"All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades. "

Not much has changed with some people believing that they're part of the enlightened few that can see into the hearts and minds of others. I guess it really isn't any of your damn business what motivates these people to take their children to the movie. Is it?

Laugh at fundamentalists? You wouldn't even know who to look for!

terstorm · Feb 21, 2004, 06:02 pm

way to take the high road there bragar. I believe that's an example of "argument by superiority"

At any rate, like most other movies based on the life of christ, the fervor and controversy over it won't pan out and people will go "what was the big deal?" The Christians will still love it. Non-Christians will find it blashpemous to their beliefs or superstition.

What i meant by "laugh at some fundamentalists" is that I was going to laugh at those making such a big deal out of it. The movie is probably just entertaining. The people making the big deal out of it are even more entertaining.

kharmajunkie · Feb 21, 2004, 08:01 pm

Bragar, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about me. I'm not making it my business as to what movie parents take their kids to; I'm just commenting on it; And don't play dumb. You know that just about every year the Super Bowl is the highest rated show of the year so it's a pretty safe bet that you would get a large cross section of people at the movie who also watched the game. Granted, it wasn't just fundamentalist's that complained. A lot of Democrats/liberals did too. But let's be honest, the religious right jumped on the bandwagon first and yelled the loudest.
Be annoyed with me all you want but I'm not anti-religion, I just dislike the representation of the various Gods of this world down here.

RebelWithanAK · Feb 22, 2004, 12:43 pm

You fail to see the irony in his defending a politician (who's job is to be on top of sociopolitical waves, and who's personally known as one who's been twisting facts or outright lying to turn things to his advantage) against scientists (who are not necessarily on top of sociopolitical waves, but might actually be doing *gasp* actual research to benefit mankind!)

Given a choice, I'd much sooner trust the scientist from an independant research institute who tells me that we're doomed than the politician in the chemical industry's pocket who tells me that's a load of bullshit.

Impenitent · Feb 22, 2004, 01:05 pm

"Given a choice, I'd much sooner trust the scientist from an independant research institute who tells me that we're doomed..."

that is your prejudice and closed mindedness... looking for doom...

have a nice day...

kharmajunkie · Feb 22, 2004, 03:06 pm

Oh and braggar, you tell me it's not my business to question what motivates these parents to take their younger children to see a violent film. It can run both ways though. Various politicians, media personalities and activists are constantly hiding behind "the nations children" when they see something they don't like or that offends them. We're always hearing about how they want to help kids by cleaning up tv, radio, video games and the internet. They're just exploiting kids for personal/political gain when they do that though.
When I find something offensive coming from various media/entertainment outlets I just avoid it or change the channel. That's the American way; not whining and hiding behind disingenuous
feelings for the kids. That's why I brought that up. Watch Fox news today for an hour. You'll see a story about "the passion" and an interview with Mancow Muller, a Chicago shock jock. He was fined $21,ooo by the FCC for a song lyric he aired in 2001. They're reasoning: he does morning drive and kids can hear it. I think Mancow
is a no talent that plays conservative on the radio in an attempt to be different but he doesn't deserve to pay five figures because some jaggoff was listening to an adult oriented radio show with his kid in the car and then complained to the FCC. If you don't see a cultural hypocrisy there then you just don't want to. Let parents raise their children; not the government.

Down with the FCC. A bunch of censorship gurus with expense accounts
that we're flipping the bill for.

ArtyP · Feb 24, 2004, 05:46 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (kharmajunkie,)
You're giving Mel Gibson way too much credit. He's a Christian (Catholic) in a country that has a Christian majority.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

If Mel Gibson has guts, it has nothing to do with being a Christian in a "Christian" country.

It has to do with being openly Christian in the Liberal dominated movie industry. As a conservative its practically impossible for me to even say the word "Jew" without being called a Nazi but I'll run the risk anyway and point out that also flirting with accusations of anti-semitism, in an industry in which Jewish people have always been highly represented is another risk.

Now having paid good money to see Beyond the Thunderdome I have no particular warmth towards Mel Gibson, but I think you were being unfair with the way in which you dismissed the potentially negative career implications for him.

The idea that being openly "Christian" in today's America is a cakewalk in every context just does not hold up to any scrutiny whatever I am afraid.

sdcinder · Feb 24, 2004, 09:55 pm

I have seen it and I have children in middle school and elementary school. NO, they are NOT going to see this movie. They are not ready to be traumatized like that.

I recommend you go though, if you think you can handle it. I almost couldn't and I lived through the Hellraiser fiasco!

ceg · Feb 24, 2004, 11:42 pm

For Christians who found this gory fiction moving, all the more power to them.

For the rest, just keep repeating, "It's only a movie, It's only a movie."

joegvb · Feb 26, 2004, 10:11 am

It was very depective. But hey, was the cross a very pleasent site to see when it happended 2000 years ago. No it was a heartbreaking and very upsetting site thing to see. Thus the movie its very moving and unpleasent at times.

On a scale from 1 to 10 i give it a 13.

More from me later,

JOE

hondacivic21218 · Feb 26, 2004, 02:17 pm

He has his own, very specific religious belief and enough money to make and promote a movie, "Passion" to try push it on masses of people. Since he knows all religion is based on emotions, his movie cleverly plays on the publics emotions to get them to accept his religion. If he's not writhing with envy, Herr Goebbels in his grave is smiling with pride.

P.S. Where's John Lenon when we need him!

Feb 20, 2004, 11:36 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
joegvb Molten Ash Location: Somewhere (as we all are) Posts: 40	Do you think Mel Gibson was right in making the controversial movie the passion? Or is it just a thing to get attention? I think the media has blown the whole thing way out of proportion. And the fact that nobody would help produce the movie is another thing. I think everyone should go see the movie, even if you disagree with the whole Christianity thing. Since he had to pay a studio to help produce the movie it shows just how much Mr. Gibson is behind his movie. I don?t think he is anti-Semitic. He just had the guts to produce a very controversial film. GO MEL! more from me later, JOE Those Who Admit Defeat and Failure are Unfit to Command.

Feb 20, 2004, 11:50 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	You're giving Mel Gibson way too much credit. He's a Christian (Catholic) in a country that has a Christian majority. Since when does it take guts to be part of the majority. I'm sick of the new "American martyr" complex. If you're part of the majority, you can't claim to be oppressed. Everyone from the Bushite's to the tree huggers feel the need to be looked upon as oppressed; so they can give a "we shall overcome" speech of their own. I don't buy it. I'll go see the movie because it looks like a good film; not because a billion Christians see this as "gospel". Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 20, 2004, 11:52 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	Well... 1) The movie is gorier than any other Mel Gibson movie to date... and that's pretty damned hard to do. For one sentence, ie: 'Jesus was put on the cross', we have to sit through over 40 minutes of bleeding and all sorts of nasty shit. It's an R rated movie, and people are bringing their kids to see it. 2) Mel Gibson is a "traditionalist Catholic," which means, among other things, that he does not agree with the Catholic church's forgiving the Jews for selling Christ out. In the movie, the Jews and Arabs are portrayed as some pretty evil fucks, while Pontius Pilate, the rep from the actual occupying powers is portrayed as someone trying to "save" Jesus. 3) No church endorsed the movie, especially not the Catholic church. We already have interesting movies about biblical times. We don't need this shit. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Feb 20, 2004, 03:25 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	none as realistic as this one... if the bible story is considered real that is... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 20, 2004, 06:24 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,609	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,) Did you guys hear about the actor who plays Jesus getting struck by lightning during the making of this film? That's kind of bizarre. Also the assistant director got struck by lightning TWICE! Makes you wonder. I think the movie looks good.. I've already bought tickets.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> You think the sky fairy is trying to tell us something? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

Feb 20, 2004, 02:13 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
mlingley Molten Ash Posts: 120	Did you guys hear about the actor who plays Jesus getting struck by lightning during the making of this film? That's kind of bizarre. Also the assistant director got struck by lightning TWICE! Makes you wonder. I think the movie looks good.. I've already bought tickets.

Feb 20, 2004, 10:55 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
Sodfather Igneous Magma Posts: 327	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (RebelWithanAK,) In the movie, the Jews and Arabs are portrayed as some pretty evil fucks, while Pontius Pilate, the rep from the actual* occupying powers is portrayed as someone trying to "save" Jesus.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Man... What the fuck did you expect, Arabs and Jews giving the man flowers as he carried his cross? They were the cause of Chirst's crucifixion. It wasn't* Pilate who wanted to sentence Christ: he gave the people the choice of Barabas or Jesus, he begged Christ to talk and prove his innocence; the only reason Pilate sentenced Christ was out of fear of the people and disobeying their demands. Pilate's actions were pushed solely by the Jews and their council (Pharisees or Saducees or something else, I forget). As for the film, I believe it will be great. I mean, going as far as to have characters speaking their native tongues like Latin and Arabic tells me that Mel is serious, and also leads be to believe that the movie takes historical accuracy into consideration greatly.

Feb 21, 2004, 03:43 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
terstorm Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 60	I'm going to see it to see what all the fuss is about, and maybe laugh at some fundamentalists. <span style='color:blue'>Things Fall Apart---the centre cannot hold</span> Storm

Feb 21, 2004, 10:53 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	I find it funny that on the news it showed parents taking their grammar school age children in to see the movie. The same people that complained that Janet Jackson and "tittiegate" damaged society's children somehow think it isn't damaging to take their kids to an R rated movie that is filled with violence and torture. All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 21, 2004, 03:52 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Bragar Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	K... "I find it funny that on the news it showed parents taking their grammar school age children in to see the movie. The same people that complained that Janet Jackson and "tittiegate" damaged society's children somehow think it isn't damaging to take their kids to an R rated movie that is filled with violence and torture. All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades." How do you know that the parents taking their kids to this movie even watched the Super Bowl? I get annoyed with people who believe they have it all figured out. You've blast these people because you're sure they are the same folks condeming the Jackson titty fiasco. You haven't a clue what these people think! "All's good in the name of Christianity; apparently not much has changed since the Crusades. " Not much has changed with some people believing that they're part of the enlightened few that can see into the hearts and minds of others. I guess it really isn't any of your damn business what motivates these people to take their children to the movie. Is it? Laugh at fundamentalists? You wouldn't even know who to look for!

Feb 21, 2004, 06:02 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
terstorm Molten Ash Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 60	way to take the high road there bragar. I believe that's an example of "argument by superiority" At any rate, like most other movies based on the life of christ, the fervor and controversy over it won't pan out and people will go "what was the big deal?" The Christians will still love it. Non-Christians will find it blashpemous to their beliefs or superstition. What i meant by "laugh at some fundamentalists" is that I was going to laugh at those making such a big deal out of it. The movie is probably just entertaining. The people making the big deal out of it are even more entertaining. <span style='color:blue'>Things Fall Apart---the centre cannot hold</span> Storm

Feb 21, 2004, 08:01 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	Bragar, you seem to be making a lot of assumptions about me. I'm not making it my business as to what movie parents take their kids to; I'm just commenting on it; And don't play dumb. You know that just about every year the Super Bowl is the highest rated show of the year so it's a pretty safe bet that you would get a large cross section of people at the movie who also watched the game. Granted, it wasn't just fundamentalist's that complained. A lot of Democrats/liberals did too. But let's be honest, the religious right jumped on the bandwagon first and yelled the loudest. Be annoyed with me all you want but I'm not anti-religion, I just dislike the representation of the various Gods of this world down here. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 22, 2004, 12:43 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
RebelWithanAK Igneous Magma Location: New York City Posts: 739	You fail to see the irony in his defending a politician (who's job is to be on top of sociopolitical waves, and who's personally known as one who's been twisting facts or outright lying to turn things to his advantage) against scientists (who are not necessarily on top of sociopolitical waves, but might actually be doing gasp actual research to benefit mankind!) Given a choice, I'd much sooner trust the scientist from an independant research institute who tells me that we're doomed than the politician in the chemical industry's pocket who tells me that's a load of bullshit. . . . whenever any government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles and organizing its powers in such forms as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Feb 22, 2004, 01:05 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	"Given a choice, I'd much sooner trust the scientist from an independant research institute who tells me that we're doomed..." that is your prejudice and closed mindedness... looking for doom... have a nice day... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 22, 2004, 03:06 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
kharmajunkie year of the monkey Location: Milwaukee, Wi Posts: 663	Oh and braggar, you tell me it's not my business to question what motivates these parents to take their younger children to see a violent film. It can run both ways though. Various politicians, media personalities and activists are constantly hiding behind "the nations children" when they see something they don't like or that offends them. We're always hearing about how they want to help kids by cleaning up tv, radio, video games and the internet. They're just exploiting kids for personal/political gain when they do that though. When I find something offensive coming from various media/entertainment outlets I just avoid it or change the channel. That's the American way; not whining and hiding behind disingenuous feelings for the kids. That's why I brought that up. Watch Fox news today for an hour. You'll see a story about "the passion" and an interview with Mancow Muller, a Chicago shock jock. He was fined $21,ooo by the FCC for a song lyric he aired in 2001. They're reasoning: he does morning drive and kids can hear it. I think Mancow is a no talent that plays conservative on the radio in an attempt to be different but he doesn't deserve to pay five figures because some jaggoff was listening to an adult oriented radio show with his kid in the car and then complained to the FCC. If you don't see a cultural hypocrisy there then you just don't want to. Let parents raise their children; not the government. Down with the FCC. A bunch of censorship gurus with expense accounts that we're flipping the bill for. Sanity is the playground of the unimaginative. anonomous Words we say, never seem to live up to the ones inside our heads. Chris Cornell

Feb 24, 2004, 05:46 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
ArtyP Sedimentary Rock Posts: 21	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (kharmajunkie,) You're giving Mel Gibson way too much credit. He's a Christian (Catholic) in a country that has a Christian majority.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> If Mel Gibson has guts, it has nothing to do with being a Christian in a "Christian" country. It has to do with being openly Christian in the Liberal dominated movie industry. As a conservative its practically impossible for me to even say the word "Jew" without being called a Nazi but I'll run the risk anyway and point out that also flirting with accusations of anti-semitism, in an industry in which Jewish people have always been highly represented is another risk. Now having paid good money to see Beyond the Thunderdome I have no particular warmth towards Mel Gibson, but I think you were being unfair with the way in which you dismissed the potentially negative career implications for him. The idea that being openly "Christian" in today's America is a cakewalk in every context just does not hold up to any scrutiny whatever I am afraid. Arty P is Telling it like it is... at http://RedWhiteAndRight.blogspot.com

Feb 24, 2004, 09:55 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
sdcinder Molten Ash Location: South Dakota Posts: 26	I have seen it and I have children in middle school and elementary school. NO, they are NOT going to see this movie. They are not ready to be traumatized like that. I recommend you go though, if you think you can handle it. I almost couldn't and I lived through the Hellraiser fiasco! C. Bogue "There's room for all God's creatures, right next to the fried taters!"

Feb 24, 2004, 11:42 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
ceg Sedimentary Rock Posts: 13	For Christians who found this gory fiction moving, all the more power to them. For the rest, just keep repeating, "It's only a movie, It's only a movie."

Feb 26, 2004, 10:11 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
joegvb Molten Ash Location: Somewhere (as we all are) Posts: 40	It was very depective. But hey, was the cross a very pleasent site to see when it happended 2000 years ago. No it was a heartbreaking and very upsetting site thing to see. Thus the movie its very moving and unpleasent at times. On a scale from 1 to 10 i give it a 13. More from me later, JOE Those Who Admit Defeat and Failure are Unfit to Command.

Feb 26, 2004, 02:17 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
hondacivic21218 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 12	He has his own, very specific religious belief and enough money to make and promote a movie, "Passion" to try push it on masses of people. Since he knows all religion is based on emotions, his movie cleverly plays on the publics emotions to get them to accept his religion. If he's not writhing with envy, Herr Goebbels in his grave is smiling with pride. P.S. Where's John Lenon when we need him!