Volconvo is a debate forum for the discussion of political, religious, and news-based topics.

mlingley · Feb 20, 2004, 12:30 am

Maintaining the United State's huge military machine is not cheap. Every year the U.S. spends hundreds of billions of dollars on the military ($346,500,000,000). Since 1948 the U.S. has spent more than $15 trillion to build up its military might. Just how much is $15,000,000,000,000 worth? It adds up to more than the cumulative monetary value of all human-made wealth in the U.S! In other words, the government has spent more on the military over the last four decades than the value of all the factories, machinery, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, airports, railroads, power plants, office buildings, shopping centers, schools, hospitals, hotels, houses, etc., in this country put together!!

During the Cold War the U.S. had a serious military competitor in the U.S.S.R. Today the U.S. maintains a huge war machine despite the lack on of any serious competition. The U.S. militar budget is now larger than the next 15 biggest spenders put together. It makes up a full 36% of total global military spending. I guess being the world cop and all, we do have certain responsibilities.

If this shocks you, you should read "Addicted to War" by Joel Andreas.

Jackney Sneeb · Feb 20, 2004, 12:44 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,)
:shocked:
Maintaining the United State's huge military machine is not cheap. Every year the U.S. spends hundreds of billions of dollars on the military ($346,500,000,000). Since 1948 the U.S. has spent more than $15 trillion to build up its military might. Just how much is $15,000,000,000,000 worth? It adds up to more than the cumulative monetary value of all human-made wealth in the U.S! In other words, the government has spent more on the military over the last four decades than the value of all the factories, machinery, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, airports, railroads, power plants, office buildings, shopping centers, schools, hospitals, hotels, houses, etc., in this country put together!!

If this shocks you, you should read "Addicted to War" by Joel Andreas.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
If it doesn't, you should read "There's No Government Like No Government" by Jackney Sneeb.

--Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 01:35 am

"Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins."
-Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789.

Standing armies have always been the grand engine of oppression and why the founders sought to destroy the seed of tyranny, giant standing armies.

"You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941

Giant standing armies are not for defense but to control the world.

Evil Baby · Feb 20, 2004, 02:15 am

Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy

http://costofwar.com/

Jackney Sneeb · Feb 20, 2004, 06:49 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)
Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy

http://costofwar.com/<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Why does it matter what the US decides to spend its loot on? Most of it was stolen to begin with. Suppose the freelance thieves - the ones state-worshippers believe can't steal, because of their belief in "government" - collectively robbed everyone of $100,000,000,000; what would be the point of saying, "If only they didn't waste the money on drugs, cigarettes, and whores. Look how much they might have spent on shoes for their kids, taking them to Disneyland, and buying them nice birthday gifts!" How relevant is that to the real problem of thievery?

--Jackney Sneeb

IronYuppie · Feb 20, 2004, 12:04 pm

The price is enormous; so are the stakes and the potential rewards. There are many important (and some not so) programs that our tax dollars fund; the most important to me is national defense. Not just for what it does to protect my country, but what it does to protect free societies around the globe. What would Europe be like now if we had not spent so many trillions to defeat the USSR? Under what rule would Canada exist if not for the shield of military might from their neighbors. Of course many of them revile us for protecting them.

Unfortunately these things are unappreciated by many around the World. What if the anti-US, anti-military people got their wish and the US armed forces vanished? What if the air force really had to have a bakesale to buy their next B-1? These people don’t realize that could bring in the second great dark age. There are currently 17 military conflicts going on around the World (unfortunately most of those involving muslim extremists). Try to imagine that x10; try to imagine China and N. Korea given free reign to act in the World how they wish. You anti-military people are so short sighted and can’t see the absolute vital need for a strong military force dedicated to preserving safety and freedom for as many as possible. If you had your way free society would be a thing of the past.

mlingley · Feb 20, 2004, 12:21 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (IronYuppie,)
The price is enormous; so are the stakes and the potential rewards. There are many important (and some not so) programs that our tax dollars fund; the most important to me is national defense. Not just for what it does to protect my country, but what it does to protect free societies around the globe. What would Europe be like now if we had not spent so many trillions to defeat the USSR? Under what rule would Canada exist if not for the shield of military might from their neighbors. Of course many of them revile us for protecting them.

Unfortunately these things are unappreciated by many around the World. What if the anti-US, anti-military people got their wish and the US armed forces vanished? What if the air force really had to have a bakesale to buy their next B-1? These people don’t realize that could bring in the second great dark age. There are currently 17 military conflicts going on around the World (unfortunately most of those involving muslim extremists). Try to imagine that x10; try to imagine China and N. Korea given free reign to act in the World how they wish. You anti-military people are so short sighted and can’t see the absolute vital need for a strong military force dedicated to preserving safety and freedom for as many as possible. If you had your way free society would be a thing of the past.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

If the U.S. military was for defensive purpose only I'd have no problem. I'm not against the military, I'm against the huge size of our military spending. If we spent a fraction of what we spend on military on things like alternative sources of energy.. like windmills, or solar power.. we'd have clean, free energy forever. How are our national intrests at risk in the mid-east.. when they are half a world away. There not.. we're not protecting our citizens by being camped out all over the world, we're protecting corporations who profit from these regions. If anything the U.S. is breading hatred of the United States by putting military bases in Muslim countries. Just think about it, how would you feel if Saudi Arabia or Afganhistan had a military base outside of Washington D.C.?

IronYuppie · Feb 20, 2004, 12:33 pm

mlingley:

I think if they had a base near the Continental US it wouldn't last more than a day, we'd of course quickly blow the **** out of it :) . The thing is, they are hell-bent on destroying the Infidels and turning the World into an Islamic Utopia. We are hell-bent on protecting ourselves and making sure their vision of the future never comes to fruition. Which would you prefer, that we sit back and relax in the cool breeze of our windmills and let Islamo-fascism spread arounbd the globe like a cancer? Or actually spend the needed money on the military so we can prevent that?

mlingley · Feb 20, 2004, 12:58 pm

These "Islamo-Fascist" aren't trying to spread around the globe.. they live in the mideast. This idea of preemption is going to just lead to more hatred and more "terrorism".
If they were spreading around the globe.. overthrowing governments and oppressing other people in other countries then we'd have a problem.. until then, we need to just let them be.

IronYuppie · Feb 20, 2004, 02:31 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,)
These "Islamo-Fascist" aren't trying to spread around the globe.. they live in the mideast. This idea of preemption is going to just lead to more hatred and more "terrorism".
If they were spreading around the globe.. overthrowing governments and oppressing other people in other countries then we'd have a problem.. until then, we need to just let them be.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

They’re not just confined to the Middle East anymore. Islamic wars are the primary source of conflict in the world and have been so since the 80’s. Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kashmir, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, the Middle East, Sudan and Nigeria are just some of the places where violence exists between muslims and non-muslims. The extremists just can’t seem to get along with their neighbors anywhere and resort to the brutalist of violence to advance their cause. We cant “just let them be” any more, these groups will use any weapon they can against people that oppose them. If we do nothing we open ourselves to annihilation.

Impenitent · Feb 20, 2004, 02:39 pm

how much do your life and your freedom cost?

hint: they aren't free...

Evil Baby · Feb 20, 2004, 05:57 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)
Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy

http://costofwar.com/<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Why does it matter what the US decides to spend its loot on? Most of it was stolen to begin with. Suppose the freelance thieves - the ones state-worshippers believe can't steal, because of their belief in "government" - collectively robbed everyone of $100,000,000,000; what would be the point of saying, "If only they didn't waste the money on drugs, cigarettes, and whores. Look how much they might have spent on shoes for their kids, taking them to Disneyland, and buying them nice birthday gifts!" How relevant is that to the real problem of thievery?

--Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.

Evil Baby · Feb 20, 2004, 06:00 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (IronYuppie,)
mlingley:

I think if they had a base near the Continental US it wouldn't last more than a day, we'd of course quickly blow the **** out of it :) . The thing is, they are hell-bent on destroying the Infidels and turning the World into an Islamic Utopia. We are hell-bent on protecting ourselves and making sure their vision of the future never comes to fruition. Which would you prefer, that we sit back and relax in the cool breeze of our windmills and let Islamo-fascism spread arounbd the globe like a cancer? Or actually spend the needed money on the military so we can prevent that?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Or maybe Nations will just fight back, people will revolt. How much of a hold did the Catholic Church have on the world not so long ago? They were all fanatics compared to what we are today, that's not to say they didn't change.

Personally I think it would be money better spent to bring the standard of living up and increase education. I think education is the best weapon against this kind of evil.

Jackney Sneeb · Feb 20, 2004, 06:01 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)
I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice.

--Jackney Sneeb

Evil Baby · Feb 20, 2004, 06:24 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)
I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice.

--Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

That would be because there is not enough of a demand for that alternative or somebody would run on that premis. How many people in this world lust for power, and what more powerful position is there then the US president?

Comrade · Feb 20, 2004, 09:50 pm

Stupid people, money pumped into defense industries eventually finds its way back to consumers.

I don't think you people really appreciate how ungodly rich we are in the first place. Sure thirteen trillion dollars is a lot, but thats SIXTY years of the richest country in the world. Add up the money the government has wasted on less important things.

I'm sorry if you people are opposed to America using its army to secure democracy abroad (and if you wanna whine about oil, fine, oil, oil is what keeps this country running, stupids. Any threat to our oil supply is a threat against America), but that is regressing back into almost a Maginot mentality. If there's one thing that has been proven over and over by history, defense and reactionary decisions are not going to protect you.

Every time there has been a crisis involving one of America's enemies, it was because people who hate America thought America would not be able to effectively strike back. It is through all this money that we have kept our nation able to respond effectively.

Wake up. Having a big, powerful military is important. Even more so than that is having a big powerful military that others KNOW is big and powerful. And we are a rich enough country to afford it. America is RICH. 90% of the wealth of this country is controlled by 10% of the people, and yet, WE LIVE VERY WELL. Think about it.

I think more of you are intimidated by the big numbers than anything else.

We could also raise money to "feed the poor" or whatever by raising taxes, or eliminating the state government of some small state. Why don't we do that? For the same reason we don't get rid of our military.

Anyways, bye.

eburchelli · Feb 20, 2004, 09:57 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (STRATIOTES,)
["You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

This statement has nothing to do with standing armies. It relates to the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution and the right of law abiding citizens to bear arms.

The founding fathers were fearful of a standing army. That was one of two reasons for the 2nd Amendment. It gave the citizen militia (every able bodied male) the right to own weapons and be instantly available for defense of the nation.

Our founding fathers never envisioned that the US would someday fight on foreign shores. The idea was to protect ours from foreign invaders. We've come a long way, baby. We not only cruise the world looking for fights, but we open our borders to anyone.

Evil Baby · Feb 20, 2004, 10:02 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Comrade,)
Stupid people, money pumped into defense industries eventually finds its way back to consumers.

I don't think you people really appreciate how ungodly rich we are in the first place. Sure thirteen trillion dollars is a lot, but thats SIXTY years of the richest country in the world. Add up the money the government has wasted on less important things.

I'm sorry if you people are opposed to America using its army to secure democracy abroad (and if you wanna whine about oil, fine, oil, oil is what keeps this country running, stupids. Any threat to our oil supply is a threat against America), but that is regressing back into almost a Maginot mentality. If there's one thing that has been proven over and over by history, defense and reactionary decisions are not going to protect you.

Every time there has been a crisis involving one of America's enemies, it was because people who hate America thought America would not be able to effectively strike back. It is through all this money that we have kept our nation able to respond effectively.

Wake up. Having a big, powerful military is important. Even more so than that is having a big powerful military that others KNOW is big and powerful. And we are a rich enough country to afford it. America is RICH. 90% of the wealth of this country is controlled by 10% of the people, and yet, WE LIVE VERY WELL. Think about it.

I think more of you are intimidated by the big numbers than anything else.

We could also raise money to "feed the poor" or whatever by raising taxes, or eliminating the state government of some small state. Why don't we do that? For the same reason we don't get rid of our military.

Anyways, bye.<hr size="1" /></blockquote>

Yes, because that money couldn't be spent on better things like cleaning your cities. Have you been to Buffalo lately? The place is dirty as hell. By spending that money elsewhere it still enables the money to go into the economy.

I don't think anybody here has an issue with the US having the largest army in the world but that fact is the US spends $360 million + on its millitary whereas the closest nation to that, Russia spends $60 million. Last time I checked Russia was an ally and had far greater issues to deal with besides the US.

Jackney Sneeb · Feb 20, 2004, 10:16 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)

I don't think anybody here has an issue with the US having the largest army in the world . . .<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
I do.

--Jackney Sneeb

Jackney Sneeb · Feb 20, 2004, 10:28 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,)
<blockquote>Quote:<hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,)

What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice.

--Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
That would be because there is not enough of a demand for that alternative or somebody would run on that premis. How many people in this world lust for power, and what more powerful position is there then the US president?<hr size="1" /></blockquote>
Nice wishful thinking. No, it's because there is only one ruling party. It is composed of two rival factions separated only by partisan rhetoric. When it comes down to actually making war, enforcing laws, the leaders of the two parties get together and generally do it consistent with what is good for politicians themselves, their friends, their corporate patrons, the bureaucracy, and their party faithful. They have no inclination whatsoever to bow to the wishes of the people, and when the vote goes against the interests of the rulers, they just get a judge to reverse the election, or simply ignore it. They will tolerate no serious alternative to their policy of mass extortion, war, and corruption.

--Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 12:44 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
Jackney Sneeb Igneous Magma Posts: 240	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,) :shocked: Maintaining the United State's huge military machine is not cheap. Every year the U.S. spends hundreds of billions of dollars on the military ($346,500,000,000). Since 1948 the U.S. has spent more than $15 trillion to build up its military might. Just how much is $15,000,000,000,000 worth? It adds up to more than the cumulative monetary value of all human-made wealth in the U.S! In other words, the government has spent more on the military over the last four decades than the value of all the factories, machinery, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, airports, railroads, power plants, office buildings, shopping centers, schools, hospitals, hotels, houses, etc., in this country put together!! If this shocks you, you should read "Addicted to War" by Joel Andreas.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> If it doesn't, you should read "There's No Government Like No Government" by Jackney Sneeb. --Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 06:49 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Jackney Sneeb Igneous Magma Posts: 240	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy http://costofwar.com/<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Why does it matter what the US decides to spend its loot on? Most of it was stolen to begin with. Suppose the freelance thieves - the ones state-worshippers believe can't steal, because of their belief in "government" - collectively robbed everyone of $100,000,000,000; what would be the point of saying, "If only they didn't waste the money on drugs, cigarettes, and whores. Look how much they might have spent on shoes for their kids, taking them to Disneyland, and buying them nice birthday gifts!" How relevant is that to the real problem of thievery? --Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 12:21 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
mlingley Molten Ash Posts: 120	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (IronYuppie,) The price is enormous; so are the stakes and the potential rewards. There are many important (and some not so) programs that our tax dollars fund; the most important to me is national defense. Not just for what it does to protect my country, but what it does to protect free societies around the globe. What would Europe be like now if we had not spent so many trillions to defeat the USSR? Under what rule would Canada exist if not for the shield of military might from their neighbors. Of course many of them revile us for protecting them. Unfortunately these things are unappreciated by many around the World. What if the anti-US, anti-military people got their wish and the US armed forces vanished? What if the air force really had to have a bakesale to buy their next B-1? These people don’t realize that could bring in the second great dark age. There are currently 17 military conflicts going on around the World (unfortunately most of those involving muslim extremists). Try to imagine that x10; try to imagine China and N. Korea given free reign to act in the World how they wish. You anti-military people are so short sighted and can’t see the absolute vital need for a strong military force dedicated to preserving safety and freedom for as many as possible. If you had your way free society would be a thing of the past.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> If the U.S. military was for defensive purpose only I'd have no problem. I'm not against the military, I'm against the huge size of our military spending. If we spent a fraction of what we spend on military on things like alternative sources of energy.. like windmills, or solar power.. we'd have clean, free energy forever. How are our national intrests at risk in the mid-east.. when they are half a world away. There not.. we're not protecting our citizens by being camped out all over the world, we're protecting corporations who profit from these regions. If anything the U.S. is breading hatred of the United States by putting military bases in Muslim countries. Just think about it, how would you feel if Saudi Arabia or Afganhistan had a military base outside of Washington D.C.?

Feb 20, 2004, 02:31 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
IronYuppie Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (mlingley,) These "Islamo-Fascist" aren't trying to spread around the globe.. they live in the mideast. This idea of preemption is going to just lead to more hatred and more "terrorism". If they were spreading around the globe.. overthrowing governments and oppressing other people in other countries then we'd have a problem.. until then, we need to just let them be.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> They’re not just confined to the Middle East anymore. Islamic wars are the primary source of conflict in the world and have been so since the 80’s. Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, Chechnya, Azerbaijan, Tajikistan, Kashmir, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, the Middle East, Sudan and Nigeria are just some of the places where violence exists between muslims and non-muslims. The extremists just can’t seem to get along with their neighbors anywhere and resort to the brutalist of violence to advance their cause. We cant “just let them be” any more, these groups will use any weapon they can against people that oppose them. If we do nothing we open ourselves to annihilation.

Feb 20, 2004, 02:39 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
Impenitent Hot Lava Posts: 1,859	how much do your life and your freedom cost? hint: they aren't free... "I really like this jacket, but the sleeves are much too long..." insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results...

Feb 20, 2004, 12:30 am	#1 (permalink) (top)
mlingley Molten Ash Posts: 120	Maintaining the United State's huge military machine is not cheap. Every year the U.S. spends hundreds of billions of dollars on the military ($346,500,000,000). Since 1948 the U.S. has spent more than $15 trillion to build up its military might. Just how much is $15,000,000,000,000 worth? It adds up to more than the cumulative monetary value of all human-made wealth in the U.S! In other words, the government has spent more on the military over the last four decades than the value of all the factories, machinery, roads, bridges, water and sewage systems, airports, railroads, power plants, office buildings, shopping centers, schools, hospitals, hotels, houses, etc., in this country put together!! During the Cold War the U.S. had a serious military competitor in the U.S.S.R. Today the U.S. maintains a huge war machine despite the lack on of any serious competition. The U.S. militar budget is now larger than the next 15 biggest spenders put together. It makes up a full 36% of total global military spending. I guess being the world cop and all, we do have certain responsibilities. If this shocks you, you should read "Addicted to War" by Joel Andreas.

Feb 20, 2004, 01:35 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
STRATIOTES Guest Posts: n/a	"Whenever governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins." -Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment, I Annals of Congress at 750, August 17, 1789. Standing armies have always been the grand engine of oppression and why the founders sought to destroy the seed of tyranny, giant standing armies. "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941 Giant standing armies are not for defense but to control the world.

Feb 20, 2004, 02:15 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Evil Baby Igneous Magma Posts: 313	Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy http://costofwar.com/

Feb 20, 2004, 12:04 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
IronYuppie Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	The price is enormous; so are the stakes and the potential rewards. There are many important (and some not so) programs that our tax dollars fund; the most important to me is national defense. Not just for what it does to protect my country, but what it does to protect free societies around the globe. What would Europe be like now if we had not spent so many trillions to defeat the USSR? Under what rule would Canada exist if not for the shield of military might from their neighbors. Of course many of them revile us for protecting them. Unfortunately these things are unappreciated by many around the World. What if the anti-US, anti-military people got their wish and the US armed forces vanished? What if the air force really had to have a bakesale to buy their next B-1? These people don’t realize that could bring in the second great dark age. There are currently 17 military conflicts going on around the World (unfortunately most of those involving muslim extremists). Try to imagine that x10; try to imagine China and N. Korea given free reign to act in the World how they wish. You anti-military people are so short sighted and can’t see the absolute vital need for a strong military force dedicated to preserving safety and freedom for as many as possible. If you had your way free society would be a thing of the past.

Feb 20, 2004, 12:33 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
IronYuppie Sedimentary Rock Posts: 9	mlingley: I think if they had a base near the Continental US it wouldn't last more than a day, we'd of course quickly blow the **** out of it :) . The thing is, they are hell-bent on destroying the Infidels and turning the World into an Islamic Utopia. We are hell-bent on protecting ourselves and making sure their vision of the future never comes to fruition. Which would you prefer, that we sit back and relax in the cool breeze of our windmills and let Islamo-fascism spread arounbd the globe like a cancer? Or actually spend the needed money on the military so we can prevent that?

Feb 20, 2004, 12:58 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
mlingley Molten Ash Posts: 120	These "Islamo-Fascist" aren't trying to spread around the globe.. they live in the mideast. This idea of preemption is going to just lead to more hatred and more "terrorism". If they were spreading around the globe.. overthrowing governments and oppressing other people in other countries then we'd have a problem.. until then, we need to just let them be.

Feb 20, 2004, 05:57 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Evil Baby Igneous Magma Posts: 313	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) Here is a picture of what the Iraq war is costing. Go there and click on the links to see how much of other things the US could buy http://costofwar.com/<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Why does it matter what the US decides to spend its loot on? Most of it was stolen to begin with. Suppose the freelance thieves - the ones state-worshippers believe can't steal, because of their belief in "government" - collectively robbed everyone of $100,000,000,000; what would be the point of saying, "If only they didn't waste the money on drugs, cigarettes, and whores. Look how much they might have spent on shoes for their kids, taking them to Disneyland, and buying them nice birthday gifts!" How relevant is that to the real problem of thievery? --Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.

Feb 20, 2004, 06:00 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Evil Baby Igneous Magma Posts: 313	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (IronYuppie,) mlingley: I think if they had a base near the Continental US it wouldn't last more than a day, we'd of course quickly blow the **** out of it :) . The thing is, they are hell-bent on destroying the Infidels and turning the World into an Islamic Utopia. We are hell-bent on protecting ourselves and making sure their vision of the future never comes to fruition. Which would you prefer, that we sit back and relax in the cool breeze of our windmills and let Islamo-fascism spread arounbd the globe like a cancer? Or actually spend the needed money on the military so we can prevent that?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Or maybe Nations will just fight back, people will revolt. How much of a hold did the Catholic Church have on the world not so long ago? They were all fanatics compared to what we are today, that's not to say they didn't change. Personally I think it would be money better spent to bring the standard of living up and increase education. I think education is the best weapon against this kind of evil.

Feb 20, 2004, 06:01 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Jackney Sneeb Igneous Magma Posts: 240	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice. --Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 06:24 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Evil Baby Igneous Magma Posts: 313	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) I really don't care what the US spends its money on, I was just putting the link up for the hell of it. Obviously the people in the US have a different view of what their money should be spent on compared to other nations or they vote for an alternative.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice. --Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That would be because there is not enough of a demand for that alternative or somebody would run on that premis. How many people in this world lust for power, and what more powerful position is there then the US president?

Feb 20, 2004, 09:50 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
Comrade Hot Lava Location: Texas Posts: 1,229	Stupid people, money pumped into defense industries eventually finds its way back to consumers. I don't think you people really appreciate how ungodly rich we are in the first place. Sure thirteen trillion dollars is a lot, but thats SIXTY years of the richest country in the world. Add up the money the government has wasted on less important things. I'm sorry if you people are opposed to America using its army to secure democracy abroad (and if you wanna whine about oil, fine, oil, oil is what keeps this country running, stupids. Any threat to our oil supply is a threat against America), but that is regressing back into almost a Maginot mentality. If there's one thing that has been proven over and over by history, defense and reactionary decisions are not going to protect you. Every time there has been a crisis involving one of America's enemies, it was because people who hate America thought America would not be able to effectively strike back. It is through all this money that we have kept our nation able to respond effectively. Wake up. Having a big, powerful military is important. Even more so than that is having a big powerful military that others KNOW is big and powerful. And we are a rich enough country to afford it. America is RICH. 90% of the wealth of this country is controlled by 10% of the people, and yet, WE LIVE VERY WELL. Think about it. I think more of you are intimidated by the big numbers than anything else. We could also raise money to "feed the poor" or whatever by raising taxes, or eliminating the state government of some small state. Why don't we do that? For the same reason we don't get rid of our military. Anyways, bye. Oh, it's really too bad, isn't it? -- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050121/480/watw10701210224 Hahaha, that's funny. Liberals are so silly!

Feb 20, 2004, 09:57 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
eburchelli Molten Ash Posts: 106	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (STRATIOTES,) ["You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." --Japanese Admiral Yamamoto, 1941<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> This statement has nothing to do with standing armies. It relates to the 2nd Amendment of our Constitution and the right of law abiding citizens to bear arms. The founding fathers were fearful of a standing army. That was one of two reasons for the 2nd Amendment. It gave the citizen militia (every able bodied male) the right to own weapons and be instantly available for defense of the nation. Our founding fathers never envisioned that the US would someday fight on foreign shores. The idea was to protect ours from foreign invaders. We've come a long way, baby. We not only cruise the world looking for fights, but we open our borders to anyone.

Feb 20, 2004, 10:02 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Evil Baby Igneous Magma Posts: 313	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Comrade,) Stupid people, money pumped into defense industries eventually finds its way back to consumers. I don't think you people really appreciate how ungodly rich we are in the first place. Sure thirteen trillion dollars is a lot, but thats SIXTY years of the richest country in the world. Add up the money the government has wasted on less important things. I'm sorry if you people are opposed to America using its army to secure democracy abroad (and if you wanna whine about oil, fine, oil, oil is what keeps this country running, stupids. Any threat to our oil supply is a threat against America), but that is regressing back into almost a Maginot mentality. If there's one thing that has been proven over and over by history, defense and reactionary decisions are not going to protect you. Every time there has been a crisis involving one of America's enemies, it was because people who hate America thought America would not be able to effectively strike back. It is through all this money that we have kept our nation able to respond effectively. Wake up. Having a big, powerful military is important. Even more so than that is having a big powerful military that others KNOW is big and powerful. And we are a rich enough country to afford it. America is RICH. 90% of the wealth of this country is controlled by 10% of the people, and yet, WE LIVE VERY WELL. Think about it. I think more of you are intimidated by the big numbers than anything else. We could also raise money to "feed the poor" or whatever by raising taxes, or eliminating the state government of some small state. Why don't we do that? For the same reason we don't get rid of our military. Anyways, bye.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Yes, because that money couldn't be spent on better things like cleaning your cities. Have you been to Buffalo lately? The place is dirty as hell. By spending that money elsewhere it still enables the money to go into the economy. I don't think anybody here has an issue with the US having the largest army in the world but that fact is the US spends $360 million + on its millitary whereas the closest nation to that, Russia spends $60 million. Last time I checked Russia was an ally and had far greater issues to deal with besides the US.

Feb 20, 2004, 10:16 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Jackney Sneeb Igneous Magma Posts: 240	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) I don't think anybody here has an issue with the US having the largest army in the world . . .<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> I do. --Jackney Sneeb

Feb 20, 2004, 10:28 pm	#20 (permalink) (top)
Jackney Sneeb Igneous Magma Posts: 240	</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Evil Baby,) </span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Jackney Sneeb,) What alternative? No one running for office is offering them a choice. --Jackney Sneeb<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> That would be because there is not enough of a demand for that alternative or somebody would run on that premis. How many people in this world lust for power, and what more powerful position is there then the US president?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'> Nice wishful thinking. No, it's because there is only one ruling party. It is composed of two rival factions separated only by partisan rhetoric. When it comes down to actually making war, enforcing laws, the leaders of the two parties get together and generally do it consistent with what is good for politicians themselves, their friends, their corporate patrons, the bureaucracy, and their party faithful. They have no inclination whatsoever to bow to the wishes of the people, and when the vote goes against the interests of the rulers, they just get a judge to reverse the election, or simply ignore it. They will tolerate no serious alternative to their policy of mass extortion, war, and corruption. --Jackney Sneeb