Best Recruiter for AlQaeda

[RickSp]

Sir Ivor Roberts, Britain's Ambassador to Italy, declared last September that the "best recruiting sergeant for al-Qaeda" was none other than the U.S. President, George W. Bush. With the American election entering its final furlongs, he added, "If anyone is ready to celebrate the eventual re-election of Bush, it is al-Qaeda." The remarks, made at an off-the-record conference, were leaked in the Italian press, and Sir Ivor, facing the displeasure of his Foreign Office masters for committing the sin of candor, disowned the comments. But now, as the soot settles in the London Underground, the words hang again in the air. Invading Iraq, however noble the U.S. believed its intentions, provided the best possible confirmation of the jihadist claims and spurred many of Europe's alienated Muslims to adopt the Islamist cause as their own. The evidence is available in the elaborate underground railroad that has brought hundreds of European Muslims to the fight in Iraq. And the notion that the West would enhance its security by occupying Iraq has proved utterly illusory. Coalition forces in Iraq face daily attacks from jihadists not because Saddam Hussein had trained a cadre of terrorists--we know there was no pre-existing relationship between Baghdad and al-Qaeda--but because the U.S. invasion brought the targets into the proximity of the killers.

Why Iraq Has Made Us Less Safe ...

Is Sir Ivor Roberts right? Is George Bush the "best recruiting sergeant for al-Qaeda"?

[bishop]

it's foolhardy to scapegoat the war in iraq as the reason why the madrid and london bombings occurred (as the author suggests). if the war in iraq never happened, there would still be islamic terrorism - and said terrorists would have other "reasons" to justify their attacks. we could withdraw all of our forces and they'd pick another reason to kill us. also, keep in mind that the people staging the attacks in western countries are primarily takfiris, and very well educated ones at that - an important distinction to be made. they are far from your average run of the mill jihadist.

but that characterization aside, i don't see how it can be refuted that bush's war in iraq has helped the al qaeda movement and organization.. those who survive the war will be battle hardened, well trained and will move around the world to plan attacks against us. without bush's war, the threat of thousands of battle hardened terrorists wouldn't exist as it does today.

[Jack]

Is George Bush the "best recruiting sergeant for al-Qaeda"?

He's certainly not doing a very good job of that for his own military. I see where enlistments are still below goals.

[Osborn F Enready]

I don't think he could make sergeant in the boy scouts, but he is a good recruiter for the terrorists.

He can't get his own people to enlist because they smell liars like spoiled liver thats been in the sun all day.

[tinybear]

Islamic terrorists and Al Qaeda existed long before George W. Bush was in the White House.

The stated objectives of Islamic terrorists are:

-To evict "westerners" from the muslim world

-To destroy Israel and, by implication, exterminate all Jews

-To reconquer those portions of Europe previously under muslim rule

-And ultimately to conquer the balance of the planet

Whoever defends terrorists; argues that they are freedom fighters; minimizes their threat; rejoices when allied soldiers are killed; or blames the West for the war, supports those objectives.

[Forseti]

If we were to pull out of Iraq at the moment they’re would be no doubt in my mind that we would dramatically increase the amount of terrorists coming out of the middle east but as it is we are there to stay and if you think we will ever leave you are terribly wrong. (Take Japan and Germany as examples.) We will bring in rich American investors and drill that place till its dry. Which is not necessarily a bad thing sense that will bring a economic stability to the country they haven’t achieved in some time. In other words more money, less social strife, less social strife fewer Jihadists coming out of Iraq.
At the moment Bush may be creating jihadists but in the long run when the Iraqis are fat and happy they wont care enough take up arms against western nations

[Nono]

Quote by: Forseti At the moment Bush may be creating jihadists but in the long run when the Iraqis are fat and happy they wont care enough take up arms against western nations

Yeah but their kids will. This fallacious argument used to be made re the Saudis, and guess who pulled off 911? Bush and Blair have opened a pandora's box, the fools.

[Matt W]

Especially seeing as 'our' bombers would appear to be home-grown - 2nd/3rd Gen Pakistanis. Let's think, what has our government done to radicalise our own people? Let me think...

[tinybear]

Why blame your government? Hey, I hear that that's a sport in Britain called "Paki bashing". Is that true?

[Matt W]

Paki bashing is stereotyping and being racist, tb.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Forseti If we were to pull out of Iraq at the moment they’re would be no doubt in my mind that we would dramatically increase the amount of terrorists coming out of the middle east but as it is we are there to stay and if you think we will ever leave you are terribly wrong. (Take Japan and Germany as examples.) We will bring in rich American investors and drill that place till its dry. Which is not necessarily a bad thing sense that will bring a economic stability to the country they haven’t achieved in some time. In other words more money, less social strife, less social strife fewer Jihadists coming out of Iraq. At the moment Bush may be creating jihadists but in the long run when the Iraqis are fat and happy they wont care enough take up arms against western nations

Gee, I hope you're right. I don't know though. But I do agree that a pullout is the worst thing to do at the moment. Not to mention being extremely irresponsible.

[Trotsky]

Quote by: Matt W Paki bashing is stereotyping and being racist, tb.

I thought Paki-bashing was as it sounds.....bashing Paki's....it most certainly is in Bradford, Croydon and Birmingham.

And before people get on their high horses, saying Paki is not racist, same as saying Turkmeni, or Uzbeki or Tajiki.

We've got a nice little Paki shop up the road from us, run by a nice auld boy, tight money grabbing bastard is how I'd describe him (he's a very efficient buisnessman!), but he's honest and fair and I've never had a problem with him, in fact the only people who've given me any sorta of grief since I've moved here (or any time I came to visit family) have been knuckle-dragging-Stella-swilling-dole-drawing-bulldog-tattooed "English" twats (I say english very loosely, cause I think Chav scum have evolved their own nation) and a small minority of blacks.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Forseti If we were to pull out of Iraq at the moment they’re would be no doubt in my mind that we would dramatically increase the amount of terrorists coming out of the middle east but as it is we are there to stay and if you think we will ever leave you are terribly wrong. (Take Japan and Germany as examples.) We will bring in rich American investors and drill that place till its dry. Which is not necessarily a bad thing sense that will bring a economic stability to the country they haven’t achieved in some time. In other words more money, less social strife, less social strife fewer Jihadists coming out of Iraq. At the moment Bush may be creating jihadists but in the long run when the Iraqis are fat and happy they wont care enough take up arms against western nations

Simple minded imperialism has a very low success rate. To suggest that the perpetual occupation of the heart of Islam, specificially the site of the last Caliphate of Mohammed, with the intent to "drill that place till it is dry" is a good way to bring peace and stability to the region, is merely mindbogglingly dim.

[Samildanach]

You dont think a fat jihadist can bomb a bus? If anything it gives them more places to hide bombs.

[ibm]

Quote by: Forseti If we were to pull out of Iraq at the moment they’re would be no doubt in my mind that we would dramatically increase the amount of terrorists coming out of the middle east but as it is we are there to stay and if you think we will ever leave you are terribly wrong. (Take Japan and Germany as examples.) We will bring in rich American investors and drill that place till its dry. Which is not necessarily a bad thing sense that will bring a economic stability to the country they haven’t achieved in some time. In other words more money, less social strife, less social strife fewer Jihadists coming out of Iraq. At the moment Bush may be creating jihadists but in the long run when the Iraqis are fat and happy they wont care enough take up arms against western nations

raid, rob, and kill - all are just and s/b legalized.

is that what you're saying?

[Badger]

Quote by: Trotsky I thought Paki-bashing was as it sounds.....bashing Paki's....it most certainly is in Bradford, Croydon and Birmingham. And before people get on their high horses, saying Paki is not racist, same as saying Turkmeni, or Uzbeki or Tajiki. We've got a nice little Paki shop up the road from us, run by a nice auld boy, tight money grabbing bastard is how I'd describe him (he's a very efficient buisnessman!), but he's honest and fair and I've never had a problem with him, in fact the only people who've given me any sorta of grief since I've moved here (or any time I came to visit family) have been knuckle-dragging-Stella-swilling-dole-drawing-bulldog-tattooed "English" twats (I say english very loosely, cause I think Chav scum have evolved their own nation) and a small minority of blacks.

I notice you're very careful to talk about a "minority of blacks" but don't have a problem with slagging the English working class generally...very "politically correct". :rolleyes:

Why the name by the way? You seem very far from a Trotskyite.

[Badger]

Quote by: tinybear Islamic terrorists and Al Qaeda existed long before George W. Bush was in the White House.

...but what they have become is a result of the US supporting them when it suited...I don't think the US were complaining when they were driving the Soviets out of Afghanistan - they were too busy selling them arms .

The stated objectives of Islamic terrorists are: -To evict "westerners" from the muslim world -To destroy Israel and, by implication, exterminate all Jews -To reconquer those portions of Europe previously under muslim rule -And ultimately to conquer the balance of the planet Whoever defends terrorists; argues that they are freedom fighters; minimizes their threat; rejoices when allied soldiers are killed; or blames the West for the war, supports those objectives.

"Islamic terrorists"? Where are the stated aims of "Islamic terrorists"? Please provide a source...

[ibm]

Quote by: tinybear Islamic terrorists and Al Qaeda existed long before George W. Bush was in the White House. The stated objectives of Islamic terrorists are: -To evict "westerners" from the muslim world -To destroy Israel and, by implication, exterminate all Jews -To reconquer those portions of Europe previously under muslim rule -And ultimately to conquer the balance of the planet

really? can you provide sources where they explicitly stated such goals? “And ultimately to conquer the balance of the planet”? sounds like a made-up rhetoric to me.

Quote by: tinybear Whoever defends terrorists; argues that they are freedom fighters; minimizes their threat; rejoices when allied soldiers are killed; or blames the West for the war, supports those objectives.

no one is “defending” the terrorists. no one on this forum has been saying they are “freedom fighters”. and you made it up again by saying some are supporting their goals.

[tinybear]

http://www.internationalwallofprayer...k-Gabriel.html

[Trotsky]

Quote by: Badger I notice you're very careful to talk about a "minority of blacks" but don't have a problem with slagging the English working class generally...very "politically correct". :rolleyes: Why the name by the way? You seem very far from a Trotskyite.

Chavs ain't working class mate, I live in a working class area....people who actually work, my next door neighbour cleans floors in Sainsburys at night while her husband is a brickie....working class people, decent honest working class english people...not dole-drawing fake burbery wearing scumbags. The old boy across the road, 42 years in the army, his wife (63) works in the post office beside my favourite Paki shop....17 times in the last 3 months we've had the police call to our house asking had we seen anything going on there, windows etc were being smashed in. 3 weeks ago, the door bell on our house rang, 4 lads and 2 girls outside, I got kicked in the bollox (I pissed blood for two days) cause I answered the door and and was called an Irish cunt, We also had 2 windows put through. Made a formal complaint to the police, identified two of the youths cause of tattoos they had, week later I was leaving to go to the gym and their Dads were waiting for me outside the house, I don't think I've heard anything remotely like the bile they projected in my direction. So don't get all sanctimonius, I have no problems with working class people, my dad worked his balls off and my mother worked two jobs to put my sister and I through Uni. Don't get so high and mighty, and as for my comment on the problems I've had with black youths...well I've had less hassle with black and asian youths than I've had with your "working class" english boyos.