The Bali Bombers

[Section 8]

Fallen Angel if you kill a murderer than your are just as guilty. Why cause suffering to two familys instead of one. So in your opinion we should just kill the poor right. I mean it is cheaper. Also are you saying that if someone who is a highly insane psycopath thinks that G-D told him to brutally kill and rape fifty women, and he does, we should just kill him and be done with it. Or should we give him intense therapy and medication, and hopefully turn him into a normal member of society. The problem with you is that instead of confronting and fixing a problem you just say to hell with it and delay. You know full well though that the problem will just come back and bite you in the ass. Oh well people like you are usually never convinced so I'll just leave it alone for now.

Have fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by Section 8@09-23-2003 07:52 PM Fallen Angel if you kill a murderer than your are just as guilty. Why cause suffering to two familys instead of one. So in your opinion we should just kill the poor right. I mean it is cheaper. Also are you saying that if someone who is a highly insane psycopath thinks that G-D told him to brutally kill and rape  fifty women, and he does, we should just kill him and be done with it. Or should we give him intense therapy and medication, and hopefully turn him into a normal member of society. The problem with you is that instead of confronting and fixing a problem you just say to hell with it and delay. You know full well though that the problem will just come back and bite you in the ass. Oh well people like you are usually never convinced so I'll just leave it alone for now. Have fun Shalom

Sorry, but I can't agree with one thing you said here, if we kill a murderer we are just as bad, right?
Can you digress further on this simple statement, don't you think that maybe, just maybe the killer has already caused enough suffering in his own family, and their quite happy to see him go?
Given that alot of murders committed are within the family in the first place, or are your thoughts of compassion just nothing but mindless leftwing ludicrousy.
Why should someone be given the chance to be a well functioning member of society, when to repeat again for you, he gave no such chance to his victims.
Your naivety in thinking that we should handle killers with kidgloves whether they are poor or rich( you came right out of left field with that one) serves no purpose for society.
If you want to show your a compassionate person, then how about giving abit more of your time and thought for their victims.
But of course this would'nt be controversial enough for you.

[Section 8]

This is a direct quote from Social Work Speaks sixth edition Nation Association of Social Workers Policy Statements:

Abolition of the Death Penalty
There is no evidence that the death penalty serves as a deterrent to violent crime. In fact the recent increase in homicides in the United States has occured despite the reinstitution of capital punishment in most states. The abolition of the death penalty would bring the United States' penal system in line with those of other modern industrialized societies. As it is currently used, the death penalty violates the constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. In addition, the equal application of the death penalty deprives many people of color and low-income people of the Fourteenth Amendment's gurantee of "equal protection under law."
End quote

Also FA the comment about the poor was used because you said murdering prisoners would save money.

Have Fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

There not being murdered Section 8, they are being executed, a subtle difference there.
And my thoughts on Capital punishments effect on crime are in your other topic on this matter already.

[G. Adams]

Capital punishment is murder. Ahem. Just because the state sanctions it doesn't justify it.

I'll digress on his behalf till he replies. The killer kills someone. The state kills someone. Where's the difference?

Why do people kill in the first place? In the majority of cases, its either provocation or mental illness. Can you be executed because of an illness, or because someone else put you into a position where they would get themselves killed? When the police kill someone in such circumstances its called suicide by cop, but theres no difference. If the state is killing someone for an illness, isn't that involuntary euthanasia?

All the bullshit about satisfying the victims family is worthless. We have a justice sytem to stop such vengeance killings in the first place. And if a family is so distraught by the loss of someone that they need the killer executed, they should do it themselves, and then face the consequences of their actions.

[Section 8]

I already have another topic on this so I'll make it brief. The United States is the only first world ccountry that allows the murder of children and the mentally retarded by the state.

Have Fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by G. Adams@09-24-2003 09:48 AM I'll digress on his behalf till he replies.  The killer kills someone.  The state kills someone.  Where's the difference?

Whats the difference, the difference is the Killer is alunatic making up his own rules as he goes, the State gets rid of these people(?) so the above does'nt happen again, at least not by the same person.
Do you people, who so passionately defend every nutcase who goes beserk, really think you have the right to tell the majority of society who don't, repeat in case you missed it, don't agree at all, with your gutless and simple minded view on criminal punishment.

[Section 8]

Once again you're acting like the only people who kill are psychos hell bent on destruction. I hate to tell you that this is not the case. So what happens if a mentally retarted person kills someone for x reason and you sentence him to die. The system allows this. How about you give the psycopaths deep therapy and medication in order to help them with their problems. Which they obviously have many. Then you can give them a high school education, and they can earn a college one two. Then you would have a functioning member of society.

Have Fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

How about we just put them to sleep instead, it would be more humane.

[Section 8]

Okay how is reabilitating someone to be a functional member of society a bad thing. Murder is never humane.

Have Fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

Its not murder, if we see an animal in pain ie; we put it down, but if a human is so miserable because of mental illness and the baggage society has given him/her to carry as well we let them live and suffer more and sometimes this causes other innocent people to suffer as well, ie; being attacked and maybe even killed, so why not do them a favour and put them to sleep, so they can go to a better place faster.

[Section 8]

FA, not all mentally ill people truly want to die, by curing the people we are also releaving them of the "pain" but they survive.

People aren't expendable government is
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by Section 8@10-02-2003 12:30 AM FA, not all mentally ill people truly want to die, by curing the people we are also releaving them of the "pain" but they survive. People aren't expendable government is Shalom

If you cure them, thats abit risky I think, for most pscychotic criminals, and thats what were talking about here remember, not the mentally ill in general, which you tried nicely to steer this debate into, there is no cure, I think they have crossed lines in their head they can not come back from, they and the public are better off if they are put to sleep and given peace.

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by RebelWithanAK@09-22-2003 01:49 AM You can't save the dead. No matter how many of your enemies you kill, the dead ain't getting any less dead. There's no point in the unnecessary and often reciprocal bloodshed. You fail, utterly miserably I might add, to realize that in your system, your enemy is you.

Your serious arent you?
The dead they have killed are of course dead, yes your spot on there, brilliant observation that one.
The enemy is me you say, I thought the knife wielding nutcase was?
Do you live in reality, Rebel with an AK, or on a Uni campus.

[Section 8]

FA, your the needle weilding executioner. Who's worse. All your commiting is a reckless vandetta on the murderer. If they're in prison for life then they most likely will not be murdering anyone else. You're just as guilty as they're.

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by Section 8@10-02-2003 10:20 AM FA, your the needle weilding executioner. Who's worse. All your commiting is a reckless vandetta on the murderer. If they're in prison for life then they most likely will not be murdering anyone else. You're just as guilty as they're.

Needle?
A rope is cheaper, for about the tenth time Section 8, removing a mass murderer, or just a murderer from society, does not make me as bad as them.
This is such twisted logic, its almost childish how you and AK reason.
How about this hypothetical, we are all on a jury that votes for the Death penalty, a demented lunatic has raped and killed a child, but you hamstring it at the last moment, on a diminished responsibility reason.
He was bought up by his father who beat and raped him, he now has psychological problems because of the years of horror he went through. The guy gets life instead, but on an appeal gets out 15 years later, and two years after that rapes and murders a little girl.
Should you be just as guilty for her death?
Don't just dismiss it as a scenario, learn about the importance of taking some responsibility.

[Section 8]

Or how about he successfully completes treatment and when he wins an appeal he leaves prison and becomes a normal member of society. And Removing people is the same thing as murder.

[Fallen Angel]

Hello, sidestep, you did'nt even attempt to answer that properly, it was my scenario, not yours, my terms ok, not yours.
Do you really think in your wildest fantasys that someone who rapes and murders little girls is ever going to be normal.
You need a big reality check.
Murder is not the same as Capital punishment, a responsible person knows the difference, you sir, are an idealist, not a realist.

[Section 8]

This is from dictionary.com
2. To destroy; to put an end to.

Does that answer your question.
And yes, they have treatment programs for pedophiles, but in the US they're losing all of the good prison rehab treatments, and replacing them with useless pieces of shit. The worst is that they're now going to try to convert people to fundamenalist Christianity.
*shudder*

Have Fun
Shalom

[Fallen Angel]

Originally posted by Section 8@10-03-2003 10:43 AM This is from dictionary.com 2. To destroy; to put an end to. Does that answer your question. And yes, they have treatment programs for pedophiles, but in the US they're losing all of the good prison rehab treatments, and replacing them with useless pieces of shit. The worst is that they're now going to try to convert people to fundamenalist Christianity. *shudder* Have Fun Shalom

Fundementalist Christianity?
Is there a Jihad going on I don't know about to convert the world by force to Christianity?
Your dictionary quote was very sad, and had no relevance to the subject at all.