Africa Demands....

[tinybear]

So your solution is to keep on lining the corrupt pockets of African dictators?

[Matt W]

Again with the stereotyping. :rolleyes:

My solution isn't to ignore those who aren't corrupt and suffering just because of a few dictators.

[Osborn F Enready]

My solution is to cut the world OFF from U.S. aid dollars, until we get our own nest clean.

[Matt W]

Whilst I appreciate your isolationist stance, Osbourn, what do you propose for Africa, not America?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: Matt W My solution isn't to ignore those who aren't corrupt and suffering just because of a few dictators.

This guy has been busy in Zambia, salvaging children orphaned by AIDS:



http://www.pbs.org/opb/thenewheroes/meet/zulu.html

Moses Zulu is a dynamic 40-year-old with a winning smile and extraordinary determination. In 1990 Zulu opened Children's Town to serve Zambian children orphaned by the AIDS epidemic and other causes. He is devoted to helping these orphans find their way in life. The program has grown from a handful of children living in tent shelters to almost 300 children and a staff of 22 living in six different houses. The grounds include a primary school and a community center. Zulu's vision includes a plan to make Children's Town self sustaining. Zulu offers hope and inspiration to his young charges. "At our core," he says, "we enable our children to have dreams, to believe in themselves and to take responsibility for their lives." What Does Children's Town Do? According to UNICEF, by the end of 2004, nearly one million children were AIDS orphans. Many come from rural areas and, after their parents' deaths, they are force to flee to African cities, where their only means of survival may be working as a street vendor, or resorting to crime or prostitution — behavior that brings an extremely high risk of contracting AIDS and other illnesses. In Zambia's capital, Lusaka, alone, it is estimated that there are more than 75,000 AIDS orphans For these children, basic needs are unaffordable luxuries. They have no childhood, no time to play, no future. They are overwhelmed by chronic illness, lack of shelter and frequent abuse by adults. Children's Town is a residential education and vocational training institution in the African village of Malambanyama, Zambia, designed to give some of these children basic life skills and hope for the future. Each child goes through a five-year program in which they are taught life skills, responsibility, values and self-care. They graduate with vocational training in agriculture or crafts and business management, as well as a ninth-grade diploma. Children's Town has trained more than 90 students in agriculture, 50 in business and 400 in agribusiness. They are socialized, taught academic subjects like reading and math, and given practical skills like running a farm and doing carpentry. Children also attend counseling sessions and steel band rehearsal and interact with the local community at least once a week. Although the future looks bleak for many African children, Moses Zulu's Children's Town provides an oasis of hope and a vitally important example for how poor countries with high numbers of orphans can respond with humanity and compassion to the next generation of the AIDS crisis.

There are many others doing good work in Africa. Why do governments ALWAYS go for the big bucks, high profile projects that don't actually reach the grass roots of helping people in need?

http://www.humana.org/TextPage.asp?M...MenuItemID=138

[lsbskins1]

I am now convinced that tinybear is not at all interested in what is right, but only in what is convient to and good for what she/he (not sure which) preceives as our interests. Everything is a cold calculation. And if something does not fit within the preproscibed world-view, rationalize or dismiss, but never truely engage the issue...

Racism- Not my fault, why should I pay? Fuck 'em if they can't throw off oppression that lasted until the late 60's and become just as addept at manipulating the system as we "real" Americans are.

Homosexuals- Weirdos who's existance makes me uncomfortable so they should have enough respect for me to stay in the closet where they belong. Their rights don't matter as much as mine because might makes right and the might of numbers is behind me.

Terrorism- Caused by the fact that those nasty A-Rabs are by their very nature evil and worth only the energy it takes to smote them.

I will not argue with or respond anymore to someone who so clearly has a different set of value norms than my own. It is as futile as asking water not to be wet. I will grant that water has no choice but to be wet, and one must choose to be that closed minded and obstinate, but once that choice has been made and defended, unless God comes down from the heavens and instucts tinybear to change, tinybear will remain my philosophical opposite.

[Nono]

Not that I would dream of standing up for tiny, and I think you've put the cuddly little thing's views in a nutshell, Isb. But Africa has been a terrible sinkhole for aid money channelled through governments (with the honourable exceptions of Botswana and company).

But there are a hell of a lot of good organizations working in Africa on down-to-earth projects that give locals a stake in their success and continuation. These organizations -- some run by the (scream, shudder) United Nations, others by lefty do-gooders and still others by Christan do-gooders -- are worthy of our tax money. They really do a lot with it.

[tinybear]

I think my views on various issues have been grossly misunderstood. I'm a misunderstood little bear.

[Matt W]

Not in the slightest.

[Samildanach]

The fact is whatever is in the history books we have a moral obligation to help our fellow humans.
All that is left to decide is how.

[Badger]

Quote by: tinybear Yep. Africa DEMANDS seats on the Security Council and more cash, plus erasure of debts. Not 'ask'. Demand. By KHALED AL-DEEB, Associated Press Writer Tue Jul 5, 5:14 PM ET SIRTE, Libya - African leaders, ending a two-day summit Tuesday, said they want two permanent seats on the U.N. Security Council and asked the international community to fulfill pledges to help their continent battle poverty. The declaration by the African Union summit comes ahead of Wednesday's Group of Eight industrialized nations meeting in Scotland and amid growing international calls for the world's richest nations to do more to help Africa combat poverty and encourage development. Some 47 African heads of state were joined by U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, Arab League leader Amr Moussa and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. It was the highest-level conference held in Libya since the one-time pariah state returned from the international cold after agreeing to compensate relatives of victims from several bombings linked to Tripoli. The declaration passed Tuesday sent a plea to the G-8 summit to fulfill past promises made to help Africa end poverty and increase development and investment. It also said two African countries should be given permanent seats on the Security Council and five non-permanent seats. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050705/...african_summit So, what do you think, folks? Shall we give in to their DEMANDS or what?

What are you raving about?

We've imposed policies which have absolutely DEVASTATED Africa for our own benefit.

AFRICANS WORK FOR NEXT TO NOTHING SO WE CAN GROW RICHER.

[tinybear]

Africans work for next to nothing so their corrupt and dictatorial rulers can live in luxury and every few years or so they get raped, maimed and murdered. Yeah, and guess who is demanding more aid from the west? Yep. Those corrupt dictatorial African rulers. Gee, shall we give in to their demands, ya think?

[Nono]

Sadly, an African seat or two on the SC would probably change absolutely nothing for the average African. Still, it isn't every day the UN undergoes this sort of change so it isn't surprising that demands are being made. After all, tiny, what do you think all the fuss has been about between the Chinese and Japanese recently? The Chinese are sitting pretty at the UN -- they're on the SC but don't pay for anything. The Japanese, on the other hand, pay bigtime and aren't on the SC.

This is politics.

[Badger]

Quote by: tinybear Africans work for next to nothing so their corrupt and dictatorial rulers can live in luxury and every few years or so they get raped, maimed and murdered. Yeah, and guess who is demanding more aid from the west? Yep. Those corrupt dictatorial African rulers. Gee, shall we give in to their demands, ya think?

So you're saying Western economic policy has not ravaged Africa :rolleyes: ?

If so, you're denying accepted fact.

Yes, corrupt African leaders are a problem. The West is partly responsible for that situation. BUT...it's only part of the problem.

Africa is subject to an economic trap - a trap which ensures we benefit from the toils of starving Africans. We force Africans to buy OUR goods while refusing to allow them access to our markets. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM. Free trade? There's no such thing!

[Badger]

Quote by: tinybear Africans work for next to nothing so their corrupt and dictatorial rulers can live in luxury and every few years or so they get raped, maimed and murdered. Yeah, and guess who is demanding more aid from the west? Yep. Those corrupt dictatorial African rulers. Gee, shall we give in to their demands, ya think?

So what do you suggest as a solution to the African problem?

[castille]

There is no realistic Utopian solution.

[tinybear]

Quote by: Badger So what do you suggest as a solution to the African problem?

Let the UN organisations enter the corrupt African nations and take charge of poverty relief, giving food and education directly to those in need and without going through the government. Yes, that would be interfering with the countries' sovereignty. But tough. Take it or leave it.

[mr.perfecto]

The UN peacekeepers would probably just use it as an excuse to rape.

[tinybear]

Those are the UN soldiers. The UN relief workers are a different kettle of fish.

[Matt W]

UN Organisations and other charities do that already, tb, in several cases. There's simply not enough to go round right now - though the $50bn pledged by the G8 should help.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4666769.stm