Mercury in Vaccines Causing Autism

[RickSp]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I believe Alzheimer's may have already begun, in your case, Mr. Vicchio... Seriously, though. Why use mercury to preserve an additive to the human body? Especially for kids? In fact, the Kennedy piece notes that most vaccine makers have phased it out, due to health concerns...

Preservatives became common after a dozen Australian kids died from vaccines that had gone bad.

In January 1928, in the early stages of an immunization campaign against diphtheria, Dr. Ewing George Thomson, Medical Officer of Health of Bundaberg, began the injection of children with toxin-antitoxin mixture. The material was taken from an India-rubber-capped bottle containing 10 mL of TAM. On the 17th, 20th, 21, and 24th January, Dr. Thomson injected subcutaneously a total of 21 children without ill effect. On the 27th a further 21 children were injected…Of these children …eleven died on the 28th and one on the 29th. (Wilson 1967) This disaster was investigated by a Royal Commission and the final sentence in the summary of their findings reads as follows: The consideration of all possible evidence concerning the deaths at Bundeberg points to the injection of living staphylococci as the cause of the fatalities. From this experience, the Royal Commission recommended that biological products in which the growth of a pathogenic organism is possible should not be issued in containers for repeated use unless there is a sufficient concentration of antiseptic (preservative) to inhibit bacterial growth. The U.S. requirement for preservatives in multi-dose vaccines was incorporated into the CFR in January 1968, although many biological products had contained preservatives, including thimerosal, prior to this date. Specifically, the CFR states: Products in multi-dose containers shall contain a preservative, except that a preservative need not be added to Yellow Fever Vaccine; Polio-virus Vaccine, Live Oral; viral vaccine labeled for use with the jet injector; dried vaccines when the accompanying diluent contains a preservative; or to an Allergenic Product in 50 percent or more volume (v/v) glycerin. [21 CFR 610.15(a)] The CFR also requires that the preservative used …[s]hall be sufficiently non-toxic so that the amount present in the recommended dose of the product will not be toxic to the recipient, and in combination used it shall not denature the specific substance in the product to result in a decrease below the minimal acceptable potency within the dating period when stored at the recommended temperature. [21 CFR 610.15(a)]

Mercury (Thimerosal) in Vaccines FDA report

[PatrickHenry]

I am not saying people shouldn't be immunized. But to use mercury as a preservative after convincing evidence of neurotoxicity is pretty bad for business, unless you have gov regulators and pols to cover for you. What do you say on this Rick? You like what the Feds are doing here?

How about legislation to limit lawsuits? Is that up your alley, "libertarian" RickSP?

[RickSp]

Quote by: PatrickHenry I am not saying people shouldn't be immunized. But to use mercury as a preservative after convincing evidence of neurotoxicity is pretty bad for business, unless you have gov regulators and pols to cover for you. What do you say on this Rick? You like what the Feds are doing here? How about legislation to limit lawsuits? Is that up your alley, "libertarian" RickSP?

Given that multiple studies, whether you care to acknowldege them or not has found no evidence of ties between autism and themerisol, and given that thimerisol hasn't been used in pediatric vaccines for the past 5 years what great conspiracy are you raving about now?

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: RickSp what great conspiracy are you raving about now?

Did you read the lead off article, Rick?

Try the ad posted at the top of your screen in this thread: http://www.generationrescue.org/

I am discussing, not raving, about a coverup. One written for a mainstream magazine by Robert Kennedy, Jr. A coverup by USG bureaucrats and politicians that has been immensely profitable for Big Pharma.

What would it ake to convince you of links between Thimerosal and autism? An autistic child or grandchild in your own family? You sound like a lobbyist for the pharmaceutical munufacturers...

[RickSp]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Did you read the lead off article, Rick?

I did and I do not understand how Kennedy's statements can be so far from the basic facts that I know. I have read the ingredients in my kid's vaccines for example. Mercury free.

I do know of parents who have stopped vaccinating their kids because they are panicked by the sort of tale told by Kennedy, who is a lawyer, if I am not mistaken. I've seen it in my kid's school and it is happening all over thecountry. Not long ago in trendy new-age Boulder, Colorado a bunch of kids came down with whooping cough, a childhood killer virtually eradicated, at least until parents stop vaccinating their kids.
Bucking the Herd

And as an "oh by the way", forget about preservatives, the vaccines themselves pose serious risks to kids, just no where near as high as the risk of not getting vaccinated.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: PatrickHenry What would it ake to convince you of links between Thimerosal and autism? An autistic child or grandchild in your own family?

One, JUST ONE, empirical, double-blind scientific experiment, the results of which are published in a peer-reviewed medical or scientific journal, that establishes the links.

Until you come up with one, there is no point in talking about a cover-up or anything else because you can't cover up something that doesn't exist.

Have fun searching for that which does not exist.

[Lou Minotti]

http://www.healingedge.net/store/autism_to_court.html

Developed 75 years ago by Eli Lilly & Co., thimerosal has been used in vaccines since the 1930s and was the main ingredient in Merthiolate, an antiseptic daubed on millions of skinned knees before it was taken off the market 20 years ago. Medical literature includes reports of thimerosal poisoning at a sufficient dose — along with advice to curb its use. Perhaps most alarming was a 1977 report on the thimerosal-linked deaths of 10 babies in Canada . According to the article in Archives of Disease in Childhood, the antiseptic had been used to treat exomphalos, a type of umbilical hernia. Tissue and blood tests revealed high mercury levels in the dead infants. Moreover, the authors said, it "is extremely unlikely" that babies who survive the treatment "escape neurological damage, which may be subtle." Mercurial antiseptics should be tightly restricted or banned from hospitals, they wrote, "as the fact that mercury readily penetrates intact membranes and is highly toxic seems to have been forgotten." However, thimerosal remained the most popular of several preservatives used by vaccine makers to avoid the risk of bacteria from repeated needle insertions into multi-dose vials. Vaccines also come in single-dose vials or disposable syringes that do not require preservative. But doctors and clinics traditionally preferred multi-dose vials because they were cheaper and easier to store. No one would have cared but for this confluence of trends: autism rates were rising, while more mercury was being injected into kids. The CDC sets the country's immunization schedule, which, in effect, has the force of law, since in many places children can't enter day care or school or qualify for public assistance unless their shots are up to date. Mercury exposure increased markedly in 1991, when the CDC added hepatitis B and Haemophilus influenza type b, or Hib, vaccines to the schedule.

since in many places children can't enter day care or school or qualify for public assistance unless their shots are up to date.

This is actually not true.

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: tivodan1116 One, JUST ONE, empirical, double-blind scientific experiment, the results of which are published in a peer-reviewed medical or scientific journal, that establishes the links. Until you come up with one, there is no point in talking about a cover-up or anything else because you can't cover up something that doesn't exist. Have fun searching for that which does not exist.

So tivodan, you have expert knowledge of your own that autism is NOT linked to mercury? Because researchers have made the opposite allegations. I am not a medical researcher, but here is a webpage from a US National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine hearing on the issue. Those who had no conflicts of interest were unanimous that there is a link between autism and vaccines.
http://www.universityofhealth.net/NAS/NAS%20Roster.htm

Yet the document they released denied the link:

The Institute’s report used two studies from the February hearing evidently discounting the some other 200 studies presented by some of the finest scientific pools in the world. Many scientists and critics alike are outraged and condemn the IOM report as not only flawed but also riddled with conflicts of interest. Last month in the face of angry parents, shocked scientists and a scathing congressional report from a 3-year investigation stating otherwise, Chairperson Dr. Marie McCormick issued the latest report from the Institute of Medicine’s Immunization Safety Review Committee (ISRC) from a daylong hearing held February 9, 2004. The report as stated by IOM Committee Chair, Marie McCormick, “The overwhelming evidence from several well-designed studies indicates that childhood vaccines are not associated with autism.”

The coverup is in the quid pro quo that exists to profit Big Pharma. Shills with medical degrees get megabucks to gloss over health issues. Then when the debates occur on the web, there is cover for those who refuse to see the serious nature of the issues, like you, tivodan. Vaccinations, yes. Thimerosal, no.

[castille]

Hey PatrickHenry, here's another source for you proving that...vegetables are evil! (you're always asking me for sources right?)

http://pw1.netcom.com/~rogermw/vegetable/veg2.html

[RickSp]

A look at the conflict between parents convinced that thimerosal causes autism and the researchers who say there is no correlation. From today's NY Times.

On Autism's Cause, It's Parents vs. Research

A study by the World Health Organization, for example, examined the health records of 109,863 children born in Britain from 1988 to 1997 and found that children who had received the most thimerosal in vaccines had the lowest incidence of developmental problems like autism. Another study examined the records of 467,450 Danish children born from 1990 to 1996. It found that after 1992, when the country's only thimerosal-containing vaccine was replaced by one free of the preservative, autism rates rose rather than fell. In one of the most comprehensive studies, a 2003 report by C.D.C. scientists examined the medical records of more than 125,000 children born in the United States from 1991 to 1999. It found no difference in autism rates among children exposed to various amounts of thimerosal.

The article is worth reading, even if there is no "Big Pharma conspiracy" lurking in the wings.

[tivodan1116]

Quote by: PatrickHenry So tivodan, you have expert knowledge of your own that autism is NOT linked to mercury? Because researchers have made the opposite allegations. I am not a medical researcher, but here is a webpage from a US National Academy of Sciences, Institute of Medicine hearing on the issue. Those who had no conflicts of interest were unanimous that there is a link between autism and vaccines. http://www.universityofhealth.net/NAS/NAS%20Roster.htm

hahaha, you almost got me there.... I almost believed that link you provided, until I checked out what that website actually is. It's an anti-vaccine, alternative "medicine" website! Gee, a group like that would have no reason whatsoever to have bias that vaccines are dangerous. Funny, you fault me for linking a columnist who happens to freelance for foxnews.com, and then you point everyone to websites which aren't even reputable enough to hire a decent webpage designer. Furthermore, reading the site does not provide any scientific data regarding a connection between autism and thimerosal. What it does provide is evidence that doctors are as much subject to fallacies of belief and unfounded anecdotal evidence as the rest of us. This site is a poll of merely 15 doctors who bothered to gather at an "Immunization Safety Review" which already biases the pool of opinion, because doctors who believe immunizations are safe have no reason to attend such an occasion.

Still, my challenge stands: Submit to this board an original source of ONE, JUST ONE scientific study proving even a slight correlation between thimerosal and autism. Since you need help determining what that constitutes, here's what it is not:
-Informal polling of small groups of doctors who may or may not have studied the topic.
-Quotes from supposed "experts"
-Publications of anti-vaccine organizations

Yet the document they released denied the link: The coverup is in the quid pro quo that exists to profit Big Pharma. Shills with medical degrees get megabucks to gloss over health issues. Then when the debates occur on the web, there is cover for those who refuse to see the serious nature of the issues, like you, tivodan. Vaccinations, yes. Thimerosal, no.

And thus, exposing your own bias... The fact that you call the pharmaceutical industry "Big Pharma" and say that my request for one scientific study is "cover" shows that you are the type of person that thinks if 3 people share a table at a restaurant it's a conspiracy. Quite simple: No Link=Nothing to Cover Up. Call me when you have the facts. Of course, by the time you can get those the phone will have been replaced with telepathy implants, but still...

[RickSp]

The New York Times article from this weekend commented on the irrational conspirator's view that science and the facts don't count. Thimerersol's removal from vaccines in Scandinavia in the 90s did nothing to slow the rate of autism in those countries. Still some go on about "Big Pharma". Scientific data should never be allowed to interfere with the conspiracy.

In "Evidence of Harm," a book published earlier this year that is sympathetic to the notion that thimerosal causes autism, the author, David Kirby, wrote that the thimerosal theory would stand or fall within the next year or two. Because autism is usually diagnosed sometime between a child's third and fourth birthdays and thimerosal was largely removed from childhood vaccines in 2001, the incidence of autism should fall this year, he said. No such decline followed thimerosal's removal from vaccines during the 1990's in Denmark, Sweden or Canada, researchers say. But the debate over autism and vaccines is not likely to end soon. "It doesn't seem to matter what the studies and the data show," said Ms. Ehresmann, the Minnesota immunization official. "And that's really scary for us because if science doesn't count, how do we make decisions? How do we communicate with parents?"

[PatrickHenry]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/condi...ism.debate.ap/
or truthout: http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/062905HA.shtml

Debate over vaccines and autism continues Parents, scientists disagree over vaccine-autism link

[RickSp]

The question I find to be interesting is - if mercury is causally related to autism, (which hasn't been firmly established) and if some autistic children have ben found to have high levels of mercury in their system, where did the mercury come from?

The New York Times noted that when thimerosal was used in vaccines "the amount of ethyl mercury included in each childhood vaccine was once roughly equal to the amount of methyl mercury found in the average tuna sandwich." Ethyl mercury is considered less dangerous than methyly mercury. Today the mercury from the trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines is "about what is found in an infant's daily supply of breast milk."

If some kids are showing high levels of mercury it can't be coming from vaccinations. There just wasn't enough mercury in thermerosal.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: Trotsky I really think that one of these crackpots should have to see their child get full blown measles, and just let them witness the damage that their scare-mongering has done. MMR has saved millions of childrens from the horrors of full blown measles. I would love to know where the authors of that article got their information regarding the mercury. Since most vaccines are produced by bio-engineering and no chemical processes are involved at all.....where does the mercury come from? Also where did these people get the link with mercury and autism from? This is same kinda shit that in the society and rights debate regarding the Pharmaceutical industry started by Mia.

crackpots

So everyone who is concerned with the use of Thimerosal, used as a preservative and anti-bacterial agent in serum, is a crackpot? You also missed the main thrust of the column that it's not anti-innoculation. Hopefully you're just a poor reader. But then you say...

and just let them witness the damage that their scare-mongering has done.

and...

the horrors of full blown measles

Anyone reading these words will know just who is doing the "scare mongering."


:rolleyes: BTW, your gravatar fits your rhetorical style very well.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: RickSp The question I find to be interesting is - if mercury is causally related to autism, (which hasn't been firmly established) and if some autistic children have ben found to have high levels of mercury in their system, where did the mercury come from? The New York Times noted that when thimerosal was used in vaccines "the amount of ethyl mercury included in each childhood vaccine was once roughly equal to the amount of methyl mercury found in the average tuna sandwich." Ethyl mercury is considered less dangerous than methyly mercury. Today the mercury from the trace amounts of thimerosal in vaccines is "about what is found in an infant's daily supply of breast milk." If some kids are showing high levels of mercury it can't be coming from vaccinations. There just wasn't enough mercury in thermerosal.

Hopefully we will be joined soon by folks who can answer some of these questions better than I can. I have invited some to join the debate.

In my research for the column I noted that Thimerosal was added as a preservative... anti-bacterial agent. From what I remember it was to do with amongst other things, multiple usage/punctures of the bottle.

If you count only one innoculation, and not the many, many injections young children get, yes, one might say in most cases the level is low... unless it is the final dosage from the bottle. Thimerosal, according to the sources I read, bonds with aluminum and the bottom of the bottle could be quite toxic.

I have seen many claims here that just don't fit my research and experience. Some claimed that the government warned us. Does anyone else remember the massive warnings? I don't. Some claim results of studies have been uneven. When looking at any study one must ask, "Who sponsored the study?" Or, "Who paid for it?" Another study I remember used as part of their base very, very young children. The diagnosis of autism usually happens latter than that.

Hold on folks. Hopefully in the next few days we'll have more folks joining the conversation. Depends upon how soon they register.

[Ken Carman]

Wow, two threads on the same topic. Was this just happenstance? I was busy commenting here and not realizing it was a different thread. Seems it might help to combine the two...

[PatrickHenry]

Looks like you are the one who didn't search for a topic before creating a new one. Then I called your attention to this one in the thread you started, you checked it out and started writing here!

No problem for me if you wanna let this one lie dormant. I said about all I have to say anyhow.

Just to clarify: I am in favor of immunization for children, but think the coverup on mercury causing autism can be attributed to a collusion between government and Big Pharma. Or maybe not!

But I know damn good and well that there is a lot of nefarious crap going on which is profitable for the elite, hazardous for the rest of us and advancing a tyrannical agenda. An agenda that may include illness, death and depopulation for the serfs.

[Ken Carman]

Not long ago in trendy new-age Boulder, Colorado a bunch of kids came down with whooping cough, a childhood killer virtually eradicated, at least until parents stop vaccinating their kids.

-Rick

Funny how this keeps coming up over and over, no matter how many times sincere activists try to focus the discussion back on Thimerosal and vaccine safety. The attempt to paint every activist concerned with this issue as anti-vaccine zealots to me says a lot about too many of those who debate said activists. What it says isn't very good.

[Ken Carman]

Quote by: PatrickHenry Looks like you are the one who didn't search for a topic before creating a new one. Then I called your attention to this one in the thread you started, you checked it out and started writing here! No problem for me if you wanna let this one lie dormant. I said about all I have to say anyhow. Just to clarify: I am in favor of immunization for children, but think the coverup on mercury causing autism can be attributed to a collusion between government and Big Pharma. Or maybe not! But I know damn good and well that there is a lot of nefarious crap going on which is profitable for the elite, hazardous for the rest of us and advancing a tyrannical agenda. An agenda that may include illness, death and depopulation for the serfs.

Re: go dormant. Either way.

No, I didn't search. Unfortunately this 98 driven old Gateway is a stubborn beastie, and when I can do the amount of work I did yesterday, I'm happy. Adding such a search might have dumped more important goals and sucked my column into Rod Serling-ville. I almost lost it once because the editor's server crashed... and had to re-edit it. ERG!

Nefarious? Yes. For instance, you may notice earlier that someone posted that a relative was a nurse. If I remember the post right, the poster went on to claim the medical community was annoyed at the anti-vaccine crowd. They have every right to be... but that is NOT what, and mostly who, we are talking about here. BTW, I'll meet that nurse with my brother-in-law, a P.A. So the point... was?

My column next week will be about how we argue such issues. Debate has become a senseless tossing of accusations and name-calling pointed at each other rather than the topic in general. It's not "debate," it's WWF, and serves no one.

"If I remember the post right..."

Yeah, I could go check. But I do that first I might be rewarded with, "This program has performed an illegal..." or some such nonsense, and wind up flushing everything into some electronic version of a septic tank. I don't know about you, but I'm not going in there to try to fish it out. :eek: