Opinions of a Canadian

[Canadian]

Mathieu: I stand corrected, fingers moving faster than brain, I did know that. Switzerland has political parties, but they function under a consensus government. I did correct the post, thank you again.

[Mathieu]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Canadian,)
Mathieu: I stand corrected, fingers moving faster than brain, I did know that. Switzerland has political parties, but they function under a consensus government. I did correct the post, thank you again.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Yeah, exactly, And I think this is what make the "charm of this system. There an independence of the deputy while there is still place for the party and they play a positive role... Well nowhere there is perfection, but here is a good compromise between the supporter of both system .

[Willie Dent]

[/quote]
Yeah, exactly, And I think this is what make the "charm of this system. There an independence of the deputy while there is still place for the party and they play a positive role... Well nowhere there is perfection, but here is a good compromise between the supporter of both system .

Mathieu: If compromise is what it takes to reform this present political mess we have here in Canada, and we can get a Consensus style Government like they have in Switzerland and that is also open to independent candidates being involved, plus recall and PR, then it is worth a try.

But, restrictions would have to be placed on the way political parties operate within the frame work of government. Parties, cannot have the same powers they have today in Canada, they must be new rules of accountability put in place, if parties are not required to change there present habits.

[Wayne Coady]

Hi Willie and Mathieu:
This is taken from a news site out of Switzerland:
" Demands by the rightwing People’s Party for a second seat in the cabinet could put Switzerland’s system of consensus at risk."
The story can be found here: http://www.swissinfo.org/sen/swissinfo.htm...051&sid=4359148

I have found that it is impossible to compromise one inch with the party system, as you will read in the article, the right winged political elements of a party will do anything they can to achive total control over the people and the finances of a country.
Therefore I have no room or time for the party structure anymore as we all have before us many documented examples of party corruption, lies and deceit

Good Night all

[Mia]

Yes, the "free" health care in the US is horrible. Horrifying, actually. My mother had to go to the county hospital - ugh. There was actual blood on the floor that no one bothered to clean up in the many hours we were there. I had to literally fight other people to get her seen for a breathing attack that could take her life. The other people had pain and I certainly wanted them to get seen quickly, but her life was on the line.

The people who don't have healthy family member in there watching and fighting are in worse shape. Unnecessary treatments, repeat treatments, leaving with no treatments...very scary. Very third world.

It was disgusting, but that experience has taught me to keep health insurance no matter what, and if there was a way to get it for her, I would.

[SVMc]

Mia, Koi and Commonsense,

I think that Mathieu, Bayou and myself have posted around 8 pages of considered debate on the health care system laregly in response to Jackney Sneeb. I think it's a good debate and am willing to participate so long as the three of you take the time to read through the 8 pages, and then offer arguments. Posting vague analogies and personalized schisms that cannot be varified, quanitified or discussed in a productive manner to either side of the debate wastes everyones time who wants a thoughtout discussion.

Wayne Cody, William Dent, Mathieu and Canadian,

Wow, excellent debate. My question as always is pragmatic. I'm a huge supporter of PR systems. I'm a member of Fair Vote Canada a group that is trying to get proviences and the federal government to at least consider changing the electoral system. I know there is a active chapter in Halifax, has anyone in that region heard of FVC? Here's the website if not Fair Vote Canada

I think changing the voting system is a first step not a final step. I guess my biggest question is how can direct democracy work on a large scale? I'm always troubled by this. I mean I agree with everything said about the corruption of parties, but I'm wondering how people would envision forming elections that are still constituonally and issue representative without the formation of formal parties?

[Evil Baby]

I was in the debate with Jackney Sneeb about health care but unfortunetly I had to go for a bit and now I'm lost and well really I'm too lazy to read all the post at the moment.


I would love to see the electorial system changed. Maybe other parties would get a real voice.

[Mia]

Well, excuse me. I was responding to a very early post in here that said we can get care here for free if we need to with a real-life example of how it's not so great. I think it's quite relevant to those comparing the two systems.

If you don't like someone's post, you can just ignore it. They get the point what they said wasn't interesting without being scolded for posting it to begin with.

[koi]

ignoring a post in a debate is... utterly foolish. I apologize if this seems like a person attack, but by ignoring and information provided in defence of an opinion would, in any court of law (and I mean this literally) be grounds to hold a retrial. at least in canada.
"All parties involved in a trial have the right to judgment made a person or persons who have heard all evidence given"

How is a debate any different than this? we are defending our positions, which will be judged?

SVMc, I very much dissagree. While we may understand your points of opinion we have looked at facts and followed our internal need for freedom and come to a different conclussion. Because it goes against that which mother government teaches, many recoil in fear and loathing. They don't not see how they could live without their chains, they have become part of the system and do not think they could exist outside of it.

I am reminded of The ShawShank Redemption and the use of the term "instituionalized"

[SVMc]

Evil Baby - Sorry I did miss you in that debate, quick update is Jack left and we transitioned from Health Care into electoral reform and from that into the possibility of eliminating parties from the system because of what is perceived as rampant corruption.

Mia - Sorry that probably was pretty harsh to someones first post on this thread, if you read through we had a number of ppl. that would post one liners that universalized health care is bad.... without any back up. We've discussed this at length. It's one of those debates that will probably never be settled. I'm far from thinking our system is perfect. I just think it's better than a free market solution. For my points as to why I think it's better and the problems I see in our system they are back there. I don't mean to shut you down.

Koi - disagree with what in particular? What are your conclusions? And on what subject?

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Because it goes against that which mother government teaches, many recoil in fear and loathing. They don't not see how they could live without their chains, they have become part of the system and do not think they could exist outside of it.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Does this refer to people not being able to conceive of a new voting system? A political system without parties? Or a private health care system?

[koi]

everything. the entire teaching of the libertarian/anarcho-capitalist doctrine

[Mia]

SVMc,

Thanks.