Opinions of a Canadian

[Mathieu]

I've heard about the incinerator project in the Baie des Chaleurs , I think this is a blatant exemple of the corruption typical to many governement in Canada.

That's a shame. I wish there will be someone who will "zip his pants" as we say here and push to get a complete environnemental impact study before building this waste prcosessor ... From waste, to waste.

[Wayne Coady]

Many people would be willing to fall in line with the “no parties” concept of government.
For those of us who have already accepted the concept, for all the right reasons, there is no problem.
There are still those that cling to this party or that as their security blanket even though, most know in their own hearts that governments, historically, have been corrupt and that corruption is not confined to one particular party. Remember, “ Absolute power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. “

The consensus form of government, formed with independent representatives we know and trust to assert our views is far better than the party candidate who is chosen by the party and marketed to us as the guy who can solve all of our problems if only we ill give him and the rest of his party members the power, through a majority, to form government.
Politicians are not altruists ~ they have a good thing going for themselves and they know it ~ why else would they go through hell and high water to be elected to government ? The salaries, the perks and let’s not forget the gold plated pensions that they get if they can stick it out through the abuse and manipulate a gullible electorate into electing and re-electing them for eight years or more.

We could go on and on here with example after example of how our present system of “party plan” governments are not good for us all.

We can have more responsible, equitable and consistent government by insuring the death of the parties that currently control things. Consensus government for people by the people it is governing.

Government members we elect and control ~ not artificially created “glad handers” who are put in place by their parties to do as their party bids .
It’s time for all of us to throw off the enslavement our “party plan “ governments have kept us under over the years. Make government work for us ~ instead of US working for them.

[Mathieu]

Well you do a lot of generalization here. Parties have advantage, they bring to a higher pltaform the debates and make possible to get a clear line of tought about what the elected candidates will do . I don't know really the situation in Nova Scotia, but here in Quebec, first, people would not accept such thing. Already, there is plan to admit deputy to vote against the party line , that is already a gain in independence.
As for the salary, here the politician could usually make a lot lot more money in the private sector than in politics, there is corruption as there is in any governement who stay too longer in power or who i funded by corporate interrest. A sanitization of the rules of financing of the parties, The instoration of a real proportional with a chance for independent and small parties to get representation and the instoration of a recall law for individual deputy would already help a lot in this sense .

[Mathieu]

SVMc, your french is excellent !

Don't be too desesperate. This is still a project , and the law have not yet reach the final stage. Already many person are protesting against thsi concept and many public consultation are to come to improve the model further.

Don't forget the liberals here got 73% of insatisfaction 3 month after being elected ... They are walking on eggs , so they are now trying to listen the population more. They are the political wing of the conference board , and this was too obvious.

There is an ongoing fight agaisnt them here. And it is only begining.

[Wayne Coady]

Mathieu: Please Quebec and Nova Scotia could give an instructional training programs on party corruption, they wrote the book on it. As far as you saying Iam generalization on the stiuation, well history has it all documented. Parties are meant to function as corrupt private clubs. Self-serving clubs headed by the elite back room boys, who use the party system to pick the pockets of the Canadian taxpayer, end of discussion.

[Mathieu]

Well that's your opinion. I'm not saying the parties are not favorizing corruption. However I think there is more logic ways to work on that problem than abolishing all parties.

You again answer by generalization .

[Wayne Coady]

Mathieu: Well assuming you are right, then why hasn't it happened? All one need to do is look back 25 years to remind themselves that during this time, the tax payers saw their infrastructure dollars fall into the hands of the "few", while the governing parties of the day, cuts service we the tax paid for, while they "government" wasted "your" tax dollars, through a gun registary, scandals, HRDC and lets not forget the Mulroney time either. No my friend, my memory is long. If you wish to think that I am generalizing, then so be it. But why hasn't the corruption been removed from the party system and what is your plan to to fix this mess.
I was a Liberal for 25 years, I tried to voice my concern from within, I got my ass booted out of the party, because I was not considered a team player and to belong to a party you must be willing to be a team player and we all know that to be a team player, you need money and money buys power, but both need the party system to be able to pull off their scams,that is where we the membership get sucked in.
No Mathieu, I respect your opinion, but I have been around long enough to know this is how it works and the same rules are in every other party. I do have friends associated with the other parties and they too are reaching a point where they are saying enough is enough.
The best thing that could ever happen, is the people of Canada stop funding these parties with their money and their time.

[Willie Dent]

Hello Wayne: I agree with you and yes all parties are the same and have the same agenda, plus they serve the few. My age is 69 and I was a Conservative for 40 years, until I spoke out against the corruption in our party under Brian Mulroney.
What happened next was very upsetting, the back room players went to work on me and several other members in the party and pretty much ruined our lives.
So, Wayne you are so very right when you say , “ Absolute power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. “
Now I read as much as I can and I clip newspaper article on all parties and let me tell you, I have many articles, that tell a story of years of abusive party governments and I pray that some day soon, these political parties are either brought down or investigated for criminal fraud. But then again, the party in power controls the RCMP, Justice System and the Army, any ideas ?

[Wayne Coady]

Willie my friend, you know if we all start networking, putting our computers to use, we just might be able to encourage citizens across this great country to run as independent candidates.
Here in Nova Scotia we are looking at putting together the infrastructure where independent candidates or those interested in offering to serve can have a base, some place to network from. So far I have been to several meeting in different areas of Nova Scotia, where people are expressing interest. It is possible, to build a family of independent candidates through out Canada.
I would really like to encourage our women to consider offering to run as an independent candidate in their next provincial election. Surely there is someone out there willing to construct a website where all candidates can link to, a base camp.
Do some research in every province to find out the election rules and fees, you all will be pleased to learn that it can be done.

[Canadian]

Well, well, I have found some people who think as I do. For years I have been wanting to push for a Consensus style government using the Northwest Territories as a template.
So, how did I find out about this site, well I live in Halifax Nova Scotia and a friend who I communicate with in Alberta sent it to me and she got it from her friend in the USA, so networking is very possible. This is just great, let get building.

Just in case you are not up to speed on this area, hereis a bit of information.

Northwest Territories comprising that area of the mainland N of 60° N between Yukon Territory to the W & Nunavut to the E capital Yellowknife area 456,790 square miles (1,183,085 square kilometers)

To learn more about how their Consensus Government works, please click on the link. http://www.assembly.gov.nt.ca/VisitorInfo/...leOfGovernment/

Catch you all later and by the way Mr Coady, I am a young woman , who truly appreciates your support and encouraging women to get involved, you know ladies, this just might be the way to get around the old boys club.
Pam

[commonsense]

When I think about the idea of socialized health care, I think of the power the village shaman or medicine man held over his tribe or village in premodern times.
"Bring me two chickens, I'll wave my candle and do my dance and you'll be cured...or I'll make it rain so we all can have a harvest"

Don't get me wrong...if I get something crushed in an accident, or a limb chopped off, I want an American surgeon's admitted genious to sew it back on... but westerm medicine, all medicine for that matter, really just doesn't do anything for the internal functions of the body that just taking care of yourself and eating right can do...and that doesn't cost anything and doesn't provide any opportunity for massive system corruption.

And I'm not saying modern medicine doesn't have its world-changing miraculous discoveries... but what have you done for me lately?

However, just think of how the primitive chieftain, side-by-side with the medicine man to exploit the fears and cultivate the superstitions...along with the village griot, or story chanter whose preliterate songs around the campfire kept everyone's lineage straight, and the class pecking-order in line....all dominated the rest of the people whose efforts they lived royally off of....

Sounds like a picture of today's politicians teaming up with drug companies with socialistic principles taught in all the schools to sectionalize and hyphenate artificially invented "groups" preserving their power by promising to secure each of their "due"

There is no health-care crisis!!!!

We'd all be better off paying as we go, and practioners would be more connected to their patients. "Systems" breed parasites at all levels.

Did you know that the Western Union receipts per annum sent home to Mexico equal in dollars the amount of taxes spent on subsidizing our hardworking, underpriveleged class of immigrant labor?

This means, for one thing, that if it weren't "free" they might visit the doctor less...Second, it means that if they paid for it themselves, the national economy would be richer the doubtless 50% waste of that figure in bureaucratic waste.

[Mathieu]

What are you talking about ? Canadian board here, read the whole thread before bashing our health care. If you have different arguments than the one there, then come with it, else , it is a close subject.

[koi]

I disagree. commonsense has made a solid case against health care using a separate example. examples used in context are the backbone of any solid arguement.
You are simply unable to refute his logic and therefore are dissmissing his pot entirely.
The US does not have Health Care by the by. so, he's talking about canada ^_^

[Mathieu]

Humm, I just don't see where he was going . As for the solid argument, I 've seen better. Read the rest of the thread and come back.

[koi]

go back and re-read your strawman arguements and miss-interpriatations? and waste my time again? no thanks.

[Canadian]

For a person to assume the handle “commonsense” , you sure as hell lack what your name is suppose to mean.
In Canada a practicing physician, is still a practicing physician no matter if he or she, participates in socialized health care or not. To use the two chickens as an example of how our health care system functions is a pretty weak example. Quackery is quackery and if you are trying to leave the impression that physicians are quacks, then maybe you should thake that fight up with the College of Physicians, but the problem is not that.
The problem is a management problem, the way the funds are disbursed and that problem can only be fixed, when our elected, do a much better job policing the bureaucracy and how they squander our tax dollars.
If Canadians are ever going to correct the mess in this country, we better stop supporting these useless corrupt political parties with our time and our money.

[Mathieu]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (koi,)
go back and re-read your strawman arguements and miss-interpriatations? and waste my time again? no thanks.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

I assume that you fear to encounter something wich do not fit in your narrow and blind faith in your opinion ?
So esaier to attack me than argue huh ? Read the whole thread and come back with some arguments.

[Wayne Coady]

Here is one good example of waste of our health care dollars. A budget was cut to put in place a new health registry here in Nova Scotia and this health registry was going to link all hospitals together by way of a network of computers. I think the total number of medical institutions which were to be online were 58 and to date only 14 are online, but the budget has a slight over run of 55 million dollars.
So, if it cost 55 million to put 14 of the health care institutions online, how much will it cost to put the other 44 online?
My point is this, 14 hospitals are computerized and at the same time, we cannot afford to hire ,train one nurse or physician, because according to our political master, we have not the funds.
Commonsense which these bureaucrats seem to be lacking, must be given better instruction about what we the people want our taxes spent on , these bureaucrats must stop spending lunch time with these corporate lobbyist. The time must soon come when we the people take control, we can set up a tax boycott, something to ponder.
The health care system is suffering, only because the political party in power is starving it of funds.
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“ in Canada, it exists that there is an unequal division in the population …
those people who have power - and the will to exercise it … and those people who are like cattle

- allowing themselves to be herded in any direction, including poverty, while the powerful pick their pockets .”

[Canadian]

The greatest detractors of the movement to get rid of political parties and replace them with a real democracy in Nova Scotia are the people who are connected politically and now call the shots ... and have the most to lose if people in the province ever wise up and make a real effort to get themselves good and honest government. For example, kindly old Bill Mont in his subtle, folksy delivery said recently on the HOTLINE that," independent candidates can't be effective unless they have that party behind them" --- or words to that effect.

If we were to accept that asTRUTH ~ and we don't ~ how would Bill Mont or any other observer of the political scene, explain the fact that Canada's own Northwest Territorial Government functions quite well ~ without political parties?

One commentator, obviously ill-informed, recently argued that the NWT had a relatively small population and that a government without the direction and input of political parties would be doomed to failure in the larger context. When pressed, he could offer no rational argument to support his statements and, when it was pointed out to him that Switzerland is involved in " direct democracy" form of government, he shut up completely. There are those, including certain elements of the media, who do not want most of us to know that there is a better and far more equitable method of sustaing a stable government than this very expensive mess we now have.

Those of you who give great thought to the subject will conclude, as we did, that political parties are the root cause behind much of the bad government we have had at all levels for the past 100 years or more.AND certainly, every year at tax time, it should be more than apparent to you that the "party plan" of government is not cost effective for any of us.

Legislation rammed through to satisfy the wishes of a big party supporter or to attempt to sway public opinion by buying it with its own money ~ that eventually cost taxpayers directly and indirectly through higher taxes and decreased services. Space doesn't permit going into great detail here but, if you can't think of any and want specific examples, write to us and we can send them to you. Cynicism aside, it is more than apparent that government holds the taxpayer in slavery to provide it with a never ending supply of money to do whatever it wants. Whatever happened to the old ethic that government is a servant of the people?

ONLY the people can turn things around by getting directly involved and holding governments to account. We must stop the practice of allowing this political party or that to having exclusive domain over us all and our collective finances in the guise of "government". This is not democracy by any stretch. Think about this ~ are you satisfied with the Young Offender's Act ? Again, I'm sure many of you can think of other examples of legislation that has been foisted upon you without any consultation or input from the electorate. There are those in all parties who have as much as said that the majority of the electorate ( US) are not capable of determining how our lives should be administered. Only THEY have been given this divine right. Imagine~ here, in the twenty-first century, we are expected to live under governments and laws that haven't progressed much beyond the seventeenth century in which they were first conceived.

We have all been sold a "bill of goods" that none of us should be prepared to accept. The only people who will tell you there's nothing wrong with the system are those who profit most from the way it is constituted~ the same people who run the political parties and manipulate the public purse to their own ends.Again, a throwback to the very class-ridden societies that existed in England for the past three or four centuries ~ where you had a snobbish aristocracy at the top who expected everyone below them to pay for their high salaries and even higher life styles ~ very much as our political establishment does today.

Nova Scotia is another good example ~ almost 12 Billion dollars in debt ~ 68,000,000 of that debt was added by John Hamm's "government" in a TORY attempt to retain its position of power by convincing voters what great guys the TORIES are because they gave you a cheque for $155. Obviously , there must be gains to be made by someone in the TORY party if they are so desperate to hang on to their power at any costs - TO YOU. They are not using THEIR money. They are using YOUR money. You'll pay for it many times over through additional taxes or user fees. If the TORIES can't beat it out of your hide, THEY'LL make it up by cutting back more of the services you thought your taxes were paying for.

The LIBERALS will not do any better by you ~ they would like to convince you they'll do a better job than the TORIES ~ but all you'll get is the same old bull because they play the same game. BOTH OF THESE PARTIES PUT THIS PROVINCE ( ALL OF US ) 12 Billion Dollars IN DEBT. NOT ME ~NOT YOU ! THE PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL PARTIES DID IT ~AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO IT AS LONG AS YOU ENTRUST THEM WITH YOUR GOVERNMENT.

All political parties are capable of this thinking ~ certainly after they reach their zenith of power and become government. Truly democratic government will only be achieved in Nova Scotia, if not Canada, when the people (US) quit supporting elitists in the oligarchies ( political parties) with OUR money and especially OUR time.

[Mathieu]

As far as I know, there is political parties in Switzerland ...