Is Howard Dean Good For the Democrat Party?

[The Analog Kid]

In recent months DNC Chairman Howard Dean has made a multitude of distasteful rhetorical comments regarding conservatives and Republicans.

A few of them:


"Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives."

Dean told a forum of journalists and minority leaders Monday that Republicans are "not very friendly to different kinds of people, they are a pretty monolithic party ... it's pretty much a white, Christian party."

You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here."

"dark, difficult and dishonest vision the Republican Party offers for America."

"Moderate Republicans can't stand these people (conservatives), because they're intolerant. They don't think tolerance is a virtue," Dean said, adding: "I'm not going to have these right-wingers throw away our right to be tolerant."

And concluding his backyard speech with a litany of Democratic values, he added: "This is a struggle of good and evil. And we're the good."


This one is classic. Dean apparently wants to afford OBL more rights than to Tom Delay.

"There's corruption at the highest level of the Republican Party, and they're going to have to face up to that one of these days, because the law is closing in on Tom DeLay," Dean said in a telephone interview before heading to an appearance today in Phoenix.
"I think he's guilty . . . of taking trips paid for by lobbyists, and of campaign-finance violations during his manipulation of the Texas election process," Dean said.

In winter 03 Dean said:
"I've resisted pronouncing a sentence before guilt is found," Dean said during the 2004 Democratic primary campaign. "I still have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials."





Even Democrats like Joe Biden, Bill Richardson, Nancy Pelosi, have started backing away from Dean and his rhetoric.

Should the spokesman for the Democrat party be engaging in the same kind of rhetoric one would expect to see from a columnist or talk show host?
Is this kind of rhetoric good?
Is he doing more harm for the Democrat cause than good?

[Digital Man]

I think he's great for the Dem's....seems to represent all the fringe elements rather well. And he's good for the rest of us too...provides great laughs and super duper soundbites

[belverron]

I agree with several of those quotes, especially this one:
"Moderate Republicans can't stand these people (conservatives), because they're intolerant. They don't think tolerance is a virtue," Dean said, adding: "I'm not going to have these right-wingers throw away our right to be tolerant."

"Conservatives" doesn't belong in parentheses there, though. It's "the Rapture Right." The "moderate Republicans" he's talking about are the true conservatives, the ones I'm more capable of respecting. Hell, if they were the controlling influence in the Republican party I might vote for them as often as not.

This quote's the only one that bugs me: "This is a struggle of good and evil. And we're the good."

[lsbskins1]

Analog-

I notice you cover yourself by implying that it is perfectly acceptable for Rush and Sean and Ann and Bill to say any nasty thing they want about Democrats. I have heard conservative commentators call Democrats insane, evil, and many other things.

He is in a partisan position. He is trying to draw clear lines and give people clear choices. Do you think that all the republican leader's public statements would carry the same consistency you seek if we were to compare their public pronouncements over Bill Clinton's use of force on the "Asprin Factory" and Bush's use of force in Iraq? Why don't you bemoan conservatives as unamerican when they are(were) negitive towards the anti-terrorism policies of Clinton. You want to have it both ways and you can't.

Every day, Rush Limbaugh calls the Minority Leader "Dirty Harry" and this does not offend you.
Every day Sean Hannity implies to his listeners that if you disagree with the Presidents policies on the war, then you must hate the soldiers in the field and this does not strike you as wrong.
The rhetoric that comes from your side of the asile is not noble. Imagine the howls that would erupt if a liberal wrote a book titled "Why Consevatives Hate The Founding Fathers and Want to Destroy Your Country By Destroying Your Freedom". But nobody cares that Coulter wrote a book titled "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism" or that she blames the deaths of millions of Cambodians on Mark Felt.

You do not fool me. You are not offended by the nature of Dean's remarks, you are offended that he is making negitive comments about what you believe.

[The Analog Kid]

I agree with several of those quotes, especially this one:

That really isn't the point of this thread. The point is that is he good for growing the Democrat party? Are his statements going to draw people away from Republicans or are they just more divisive?

I thought I made it clear with the thread title.

notice you cover yourself by implying that it is perfectly acceptable for Rush and Sean and Ann and Bill to say any nasty thing they want about Democrats. I have heard conservative commentators call Democrats insane, evil, and many other things.

Actually, I expect those kinds of comments coming from all of the above. I also expect more nutty comments to come from the moonbats at Err America.
None of them bother me, thats what they do. I am not a fan of Political Correctness. I am asking if he's good for the party and their hopes of outreach.

He is in a partisan position.

You don't say?

He is trying to draw clear lines and give people clear choices.

Not really. Drawing clear lines is far different from saying that "republicans have never worked an honest day in their life".
Is he saying that Democrats are the only people who do work honest days?
Can his statement be supported by facts?
Drawing lines is being honest and stating: "We stand for higher taxes Republicans stand for lower taxes. We stand for socialized medicine, Republicans stand for privatization of medicine. We stand for gay marriage, Republicans stand for traditional marriage." You get the point.

No friend, the lines he is drawing are divisive and rhetorical, mostly in error. But, we're not going to get sidetracked here. Lets get back on topic. Is he good for the Democrat party?

The issue is whether his divisive rhetoric is good for the Democrat party and their ability to expand, grow and appeal to Red State voters.
I expect most Democrats to all nod their heads in agreement with Dean, whether or not the statements are valid or completely moonbatish. What I am attempting to find out is whether people feel him and his rhetoric is good for growing the party.
Thats the topic. Please get back on track. If you cannot, don't bother posting anymore in this thread.

Do you think that all the republican leader's public statements would carry the same consistency you seek if we were to compare their public pronouncements over Bill Clinton's use of force on the "Asprin Factory" and Bush's use of force in Iraq?

Why are you attempting to make me the issue here?
Is this your way of defending Dean?

Why don't you bemoan conservatives as unamerican when they are(were) negitive towards the anti-terrorism policies of Clinton. You want to have it both ways and you can't.

Actually, I challenge you to post similar statements by elected republican leaders where they play the race, religion, or class card. Where these leaders denounce all Democrats as not worked an honest day in their life, where they call democrats evil and Republicans good, where they've said "I hate Democrats".
Dean has made all these comments in reference to Republicans.

Every day, Rush Limbaugh calls the Minority Leader "Dirty Harry" and this does not offend you.

No. Not at all. Rush is not the RNC Chairman though, he's a talk show host. Do you not grasp the difference?

Every day Sean Hannity implies to his listeners that if you disagree with the Presidents policies on the war, then you must hate the soldiers in the field and this does not strike you as wrong.

Implies? Seeing how most leftists at this site manage to twist everything stated by righties at this site I have much doubt in the validity of your statement. Show me a specific qoute.

The rhetoric that comes from your side of the asile is not noble. Imagine the howls that would erupt if a liberal wrote a book titled "Why Consevatives Hate The Founding Fathers and Want to Destroy Your Country By Destroying Your Freedom". But nobody cares that Coulter wrote a book titled "Treason: Liberal Treachery from the Cold War to the War on Terrorism" or that she blames the deaths of millions of Cambodians on Mark Felt.

Coulter is not the RNC Chairwoman. She's a columnist. Do you realize the difference?

You do not fool me.

I wasn't aware that I was trying to fool anyone. I thought I was clear in asking whether Dean is good for the Democrat party.

You are not offended by the nature of Dean's remarks, you are offended that he is making negitive comments about what you believe.

Wow. You truly are lost here. As I stated earlier, you do a masterful job at twisting peoples words. Do you do it intentionally or is there some other reason for it? When did I state I was offended by Deans remarks? Please cite the exact quote where I stated that I was offended by deans remarks.

I thought I was clear in asking whether his rhetoric is good for the Democrat party and their hopes of growing their party.

No. Im not offended at all by Deans remarks. I can handle non-PC remarks from either side. I think Dean is a circus clown, all he needs is the big red nose that honks. Im glad he's the DNC Chairman as it's my opinion he's not a good spokesman for growing the Democrat party.

Get back on topic. As DNC Chairman Is Dean good for the Democrat party? Their image? Is he a good spokeman for outreaching to red state voters? Are his comments indicative of someone who wants to reach out to red states and grow the Democrat party?
If you cannot answer these questions and only want to derail the thread, please refrain from posting any more in this thread.

[belverron]

They could probably do better, but if we put him up against Bush in terms of who's the better spokesman....

[moustache]

Hes the best thing thats happened to us republicans in the last few weeks. All he can do is make ignorant comments that have no facts behind them. He is just proving to me that he is a complete moron.

Its funny how he has to resort to comments like this, ""Well, Republicans, I guess, can do that because a lot of them have never made an honest living in their lives."

Intelligent debate by Howard Dean? not anymore.

[belverron]

He probably was just looking for a laugh with those. That was my assumption. Bush made that comment that was in Fahrenheit 9/11, "Some people call you the elites; I call you my base." That was blown out of proportion in 9/11 just like you're doing with Dean's quotes, I'd imagine.

[moustache]

when dean was asked about it, he didnt say it was a joke...and he didnt apologize...therefore im guessing he meant what he said....

[belverron]

I also think there's a kernel of truth behind his jokes. That's why they're funny.

[moustache]

So you think republicans have never made an honest living?

[tinybear]

Here's my question: Do you think personal injury lawyers make an honest living?

[moustache]

Quote by: tinybear Here's my question: Do you think personal injury lawyers make an honest living?

hmmm maybe like 20% of the time. So what about you tinybear, do you think republicans havent made an honest living?

[cheesenuggett]

Quote by: belverron I also think there's a kernel of truth behind his jokes. That's why they're funny.

hah, i actually enjoy dean, debates would have turned into boxing fights for sure if he made it

i dont think he represents democrats very well though, he is just as ignorant as those as he asccuses of being ignorant

[tinybear]

Quote by: moustache hmmm maybe like 20% of the time. So what about you tinybear, do you think republicans havent made an honest living?

Difficult to answer this question without generalizing. So I won't. :)

[moustache]

well, obviously there are some republicans who havent made an honest days living, but there are some democrats, communists, fascists, etc. who also havent made an honest living. What Dean said was just ignorant.

And he still refuses to apologize.

[belverron]

Perhaps, but I believe he was referring to people with "old money" who've never had to make it for themselves. And I don't see how it couldn't be a joke.

[tinybear]

He was just tongue in cheek, I suspect. It's just like I was tongue in cheek about the personal injury lawyers or used car salesmen...etc I don't think he should be taken seriously on that one. That said, he's not a very good spokesman for the Democrats. When you're in that position, you shouldn't make comments like that; not even in jest.

[moustache]

Quote by: tinybear That said, he's not a very good spokesman for the Democrats. When you're in that position, you shouldn't make comments like that; not even in jest.

yea, I can live with that explanation.

[belverron]

Tinybear the conciliator ^.^