Remember during the election? Bush was stupid, Kerry smart in college?

[Mr.Vicchio]

During last year's presidential campaign, John F. Kerry was the candidate often portrayed as intellectual and complex, while George W. Bush was the populist who mangled his sentences. But newly released records show that Bush and Kerry had a virtually identical grade average at Yale University four decades ago. In 1999, The New Yorker published a transcript indicating that Bush had received a cumulative score of 77 for his first three years at Yale and a roughly similar average under a non-numerical rating system during his senior year. Kerry, who graduated two years before Bush, got a cumulative 76 for his four years, according to a transcript that Kerry sent to the Navy when he was applying for officer training school. He received four D's in his freshman year out of 10 courses, but improved his average in later years. The grade transcript, which Kerry has always declined to release, was included in his Navy record. During the campaign the Globe sought Kerry's naval records, but he refused to waive privacy restrictions for the full file. Late last month, Kerry gave the Navy permission to send the documents to the Globe. Kerry appeared to be responding to critics who suspected that there might be damaging information in the file about his activities in Vietnam. The military and medical records, however, appear identical to what Kerry has already released. This marks the first time Kerry's grades have been publicly reported. The transcript shows that Kerry's freshman-year average was 71. He scored a 61 in geology, a 63 and 68 in two history classes, and a 69 in political science. His top score was a 79, in another political science course. Another of his strongest efforts, a 77, came in French class. http://www.boston.com/news/nation/wa...tudent?mode=PF

ROFL, now we learn the truth, Kerry was nothing special, D student at best.

Unbiased Media my ass.

[IndieC]

Yeah... right. You know, at uni, in case you didn't know, the first year is worth practically nothing. Its there so you can get to know the place and have fun! Not work. overall, he got 76! A first-class degree. I think anyone who has gone to university will agree that the first year is the year you have a laugh, get drunk, go to parties, and don't work, because you're making new friends. If you're a serious student who still wants to have a life, and have fun, work begins in the second year. Real work anyway... The only guys who gets As in their freshman years are either geniuses, or the gifted, who work all the time and don't have fun.

You're argument, therefore, if one can call it that, has no relevance whatsoever, and is disproved by your own article.

[rcne]

Mr V, I just read the same thing - so much for 'I'm an intellectual and you're a Dumb=xxx' from 'This Land is Your Land' video clip during the election.

Now we know why Kerry didn't want his transcripts released.

And yet he managed to beat out Dean - go figure.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I just thought it was intersteing to point out that's all.

Kerry was touted as some sort of Collegiate intellectual when in reality, he wasn't.

[tinybear]

Ha! I can't believe this. You mean we were asked to choose from two D students to be our President? Hey, where are the A students of their year?

[Athena]

Quote by: tinybear Ha! I can't believe this. You mean we were asked to choose from two D students to be our President? Hey, where are the A students of their year?

You are making too much of the grades. Eisenhower was also a poor student. A C grade meant average and we had no problem with graduates being C students. Research showed C students were more likely to succeed and it was assumed this meant because they had more well rounded lives. I was a working mother the last time I attended college, and it is ridiculous to compare the grades of working people supporting families in more than finanacial ways, with students who do not have to work and are free of family responsibility.

Besides education for technology is about a narrow range of intelligence anyway. Don't make such a big deal out of grades. And for darn sure, those grades have nothing to do with wisdom and character. Well, unless you factor in, it is much easier to get good grades by selling out, than by having intigrity and being an independent thinker. Then those good grades could be a sign of character defects. And genius! I have known a few, and boy, did they have personality problems! They are not good presidential material.

[belverron]

Eisenhower was a war hero president, so I'm not sure that's the best comparison. I didn't think Bush was stupid. Not the brightest crayon in the box, but not stupid. 1200 on his SAT, I think. It's just that horrendous thing he does when he opens his mouth. The President in this country may be more than the figurehead he was at first, but he still has to make us look good.

[tinybear]

President Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar.

[Pooeypants]

So what are we debating here? Has anyone ever claimed the media was unbiased? I mean c'mon, the last election campaign was all negative, both sides took dirty swipes at each other.

[belverron]

Well, Fox News is Fair and Balanced, right?

[tinybear]

But this topic raises an interesting question: does someone with good grades make a better President than someone with lousy grades? What do you think?

[belverron]

Quote by: tinybear But this topic raises an interesting question: does someone with good grades make a better President than someone with lousy grades? What do you think?

I don't think I'd make that generalization.

[Agent007]

Academic qualifications do not necessarily translate into the proper qualifications for the U.S. presidential office. Someone who studies books all of the time may not be good in diplomatic relations, even if he or she is reading political science books; that is, he or she might only know theoretical and abstract knowledge rather than practical and pragmatic knowledge. Conversely, a socialite who does not read any books may not be qualified for helping run the internal state government smoothly.

[Sonart]

Quote by: Mr.Viichio Unbiased Media my ass.

Making blanket accusations again, are we, Mr.V? Was the 'Media' responsible for this, or simply Kerry supporters?

Quote by: Mr.Viichio I just thought it was interesting to point out that's all.

It was pointed out by 'the liberal media' long ago. Was there some compelling reason to bring it back up now?

Quote by: Mr.Viichio Kerry was touted as some sort of Collegiate intellectual when in reality, he wasn't.

I don't recall that Einstein was a particulary good student either. More likely it was pointed out that as the man he is today, and as an informed political thinker, Kerry is more intellectual than Bush, something I have little reason to doubt.

I'm not saying that Bush is dumb, just not given to intellectual pursuits... reading, writing, study, introspection, etc.
.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Kerry's so bright he lost the election, enough said on his intelligence


Ehm, the KERRY crowd touted Mr. Kerry as a great student, he never released that info, and the MEDIA that was going ape shit to find dirt on Bush never looked into Kerry's grades.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Kerry's so bright he lost the election, enough said on his intelligence Ehm, the KERRY crowd touted Mr. Kerry as a great student, he never released that info, and the MEDIA that was going ape shit to find dirt on Bush never looked into Kerry's grades.

I suppose it makes you feel very good to be able to point out that the opposition candidate was just as dumb as your own. If Kerry had released his records in time for the campaign, Bush could have run on a platform of "See? Your guy is stupid too!" I don't recall anybody claiming that Kerry was a great student, but at least he did hide his ignorance better than Mr. Bush did. BTW, Bush is still mangling sentences.

[asterix404]

If anyone can pull out of a a d average in his first year in 3 to a high c I am very impressed. 4 d's and a c is a 1.2 normally... to raise that to a 2.7 is amaising. Hell I have a 2.7 and am finding it damn hard to break a 3. Also how does loosing an election have anything to do with intelegance.... or being a good presedent? Nixon was a scum bag and yet beet out the compatition twice, in fact the second time around was a total land slide... I mean... Clinton beet out the incumbant, Bush Sr in fact. I think there are a lot more thigns having to do with Kerry loosing then just intelegance. Also kerry does come off the much better speaker, also he writes his own stuff... something Bush jr. can hardly be said to do. Every time he speaks something that isn't written he ignors the question and stutters and mubmles and makes horrid mistakes. Not saying that intel is based on how well someone can speak... I have a minor speach problem, but am not that stupid, in fact I am not stupid at all...

[The Analog Kid]

Oh the irony.

The "dolt" beat the smart guys (Kerry/Gore) in the past 2 elections when in fact the "dolt" had better grades than both nuanced candidates.
I love it.

[Chris the Chees]

Quote by: IndieC Yeah... right. You know, at uni, in case you didn't know, the first year is worth practically nothing. Its there so you can get to know the place and have fun! Not work. overall, he got 76! A first-class degree. I think anyone who has gone to university will agree that the first year is the year you have a laugh, get drunk, go to parties, and don't work, because you're making new friends. If you're a serious student who still wants to have a life, and have fun, work begins in the second year. Real work anyway... The only guys who gets As in their freshman years are either geniuses, or the gifted, who work all the time and don't have fun. You're argument, therefore, if one can call it that, has no relevance whatsoever, and is disproved by your own article.

In America they have a different grading system. Kerry only got the equivelant of a c.

Kerry's so bright he lost the election, enough said on his intelligence

Nope, i disagree, enough said on his ability to deflect a smear campaign from neo-cons.

[tinybear]

Good grades doesn't necessarily mean the person is smart. However, I've yet to see a dumb person get good grades.