Are you poor?

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
There may be a better way to handle these matters rather than the current one. But with the way it is currently set up, I am no theif if I ever need to use one of the services currently being supported by my tax dollars. <hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

Of course there is a better way: responsibility, charity, and voluntary assistance. To take the known stolen goods as your own makes you as much a theif as the one who first deprives the rightful owner of the property. No amount of "feeling" will get around this simple fact.

[Mathieu]

Keep your tax-theft lamentation in the thread of that name .

I will certainly not respond to your false claims, logically flawed arguments, and absurd accusations in this thread, if you will simply cease making them in the first place. Short of that, I would again suggest reading the etiquette section at least once, and then perhaps refrain from trying to dictate that others cannot behave peacefully, civilly, honestly, and intellectually.

[Mathieu]

well the firdt post of this thread is

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
Just curious, anyone here really poor?

I don't mean "middle class poor". Thats when you can afford luxuries such as computers, televisions, a roof, and a microwave.

I'm talking about real poverty - malnutrition, begging, hunger, living in a dumpster.

Its just that everyone in here seems to say they're pretty poor, I expect at least 50% to be living in poverty.
<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

And the etiquette say
</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
When you start a topic or a discussion within a topic, first take the time to respond to the people addressing you - before going off to opinionate galore elsewhere.

When you are in an active discussion, don't make general observations no-one can find out to whom or what they are directed. In case of doubt just list the particular people, posts or phrases you have an issue with.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

[Mia]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Lightbearer,)


Of course there is a better way: responsibility, charity, and voluntary assistance. To take the known stolen goods as your own makes you as much a theif as the one who first deprives the rightful owner of the property. No amount of "feeling" will get around this simple fact.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>


OK - so if tomorrow a bomb went off and killed your entire family and everyone you knew and you lost your job and your health insurance and every dime you had in the bank and you were too injured or ill to work and had no means of coming up with $10,000 for the operation you needed you would NOT walk into the public hospital and get it even if it meant you would die?

No matter my desires I would not hold a gun to the head of an innocent person and take their property, their labor, and essentially a part of their life from them. Nor would I add cowardice to the absence of integrity and self respect by getting another to hold that gun for me.

Is there no line that you will not cross? Would you cause another to be raped just to get another pop tart?

[castille]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mia,)

OK - so if tomorrow a bomb went off and killed your entire family and everyone you knew and you lost your job and your health insurance and every dime you had in the bank and you were too injured or ill to work and had no means of coming up with $10,000 for the operation you needed you would NOT walk into the public hospital and get it even if it meant you would die?<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

No, I don't take charity.

Also, I have private insurance, so that covers it.

Additionally, I can't lose my job, because I happen to own my job.

Also, since I also do some work online, if I end up being shot by a Triad because I didn't pay protection and lose my legs, then I would find some online business to start.

And of course, in the circumstance that the Triads decide my arms should also go (haha bastars), I'd buy voice-activated software to do business.

Also if we go to war with America and turn the world into nuclear holocauste, well there won't be no charity, and all those people dependent on welfare would die.


Matheau, in response to your inquiry, I felt everyone was going off track, so I stated my reason for listing this thread to try and keep everyone back onto track (then those two guys started talking about their personal dispute)

[Mia]

I don't believe either of you! I think you'd take the operation. No point in arguing it. You can say 100 times you wouldn't and not convince me you'd die instead.

I didn't include every possible scenario, but I think you see the point is I was trying to draw a picture that whatever your circumstances are, the hypothetical was meant to be that somehow all other means are stripped from you in some manner.

I think you would take the operation to save your life.

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by
I don't believe either of you! I think you'd take the operation. No point in arguing it. You can say 100 times you wouldn't and not convince me you'd die instead.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

And this demonstrates the difference between those who live their lives intentionally, authentically, with integrity and principal, and those who do not live the examined life.

Where you gleefully take the lives, livelihood, and labor of others for any whim, there are those of us who hold others as valuable individuals who are in the sole possession and have the sole right to their own lives.

Whether you chose to hold baseless false beliefs is of no concern to me, after all those false and amazingly arrogant beliefs have no bearing on reality and will never change the facts.

I do however agree that there is no point in arguing against you, at least not until you are willing to abide by the only common ground available to us: reason and reality.

[Mia]

Whatever you say.

[Henry-Finland]

So, I am poor, but I am rich.
With poor, I mean that I have not so much money, neither I or my wife has a job.
With rich, I mean that I do not have to worry.

Let me begin from the beginning:
- I and my wife live now in Finland. I am a Finnish citizen, she is Russian.
- She has not got a working permit in Finland yet.

We live in a flat, in an older house, with a garden and a sauna. The flat is about 100 square meters (I think about 1100 sq feet).
- The government gives me money for unemployment.
- The town hall, has according to the law see to that we have food, shelter etc.

My budget looks like this:
- The government gives me about 500 Euros (600 dollars)+ pays 80% of my rent.
- The City hall has top see to that I have an income of about 760 Euros, which means that it pays additional 260 Euros = (300 dollars +)
- they also pays my heating, water and electricity, gives fire-wood for the sauna etc.

If I get sick this year, I have to pay about 30 USD, whatever is the cause of my sickness. That covers everything the whole calendar year, lying in hospital, tests, X-rays etc.
- The dentist is free, but I have to wait about one year, except if I have something urgent.
- Education costs me mostly nothing. If I get an education for unemployed, I get 10 dollars extra each day. (For the bus or food and such).

When my wife gets a working permit, she gets an education in the Finnish language, and also her daughter gets it. Both gets about 600 USD per month + 8 USD per studying day.
_______________________________

I call this FREEDOM from worrying! And in this sense, to have all these rights, I feel rich!
_______________________________

Our future:
- within a year, my wife and I will both put up a firm:
- I will work with desining and doing ergonomic furniture from birch.
- She will sew at home. Dresses for women. The daughter, Natascha will continue studying.
_______________________________

So who pays for this all? The tax-payers!

So;
Finland is a republic with 200 representatives in our parliment.
We have a majority rule, except for socializing. For socializing there needs to be a 5/6 majority. This will never be.
But,
There is a majority that has made all the laws that guarantees that "nobody is left behind and even the poor gets a living".

Nobody "steals" anything. It is just majority rule, a parliment that is making laws etc.
It is called 'democracy'.

Yes, and we have internet-connections in all libraries (which also tourists are allowed to use). Also all schools has from first class (6-7 years old pupils) computers, maybe 5 - 7 computers per class-room.

Anyhow, after one year I begin to pay 'my debts', as i call it, to the community. Paying taxes again.
I would like to change the 'system' of unemployed a little bit, and therefore I write to some politicians.
And organize votings for those that are 'with us' in these question, and agitate against those meatheads that are against us .

Anyhow, I am poor, but I live in a rich country that gives guaranees to everyone. So I am rich!

Henry

P.S. Shall I send You a 'Green Card' application?
(Some fucking propagandists sent me one from USA. Whatta joke!)

[Mia]

you're right you are better off there!

[Kyran]

</span><blockquote><span class="smallfont">Quote:</span><hr size="1" />Originally Posted by (Mia,)
My mother is not "living off" anyone - she receives health care. You think she deserves death and Kyran thinks she deserves imprisonment for this.<hr size="1" /></blockquote><span class='postcolor'>

You've got me wrong on this one. When did I say that about your mother? I don't know if a judge ordered her to collect a check or if she went and signed up of her own volition at the age of 21.

You still bring up an excellent argument! I didn't think of this before. If you are forced to pay $100 for "Social Program X" and can that $100 back from the government, then there is no theft. Also, if you want your mother to get your $100 taxmoney I fully agree and would oppose any legal action taken thereof. Wouldn't you rather just give her that money yourself though? Is there any particular reason you want it to through the government?

Your mother must be very nice for you to want to help her. I'm glad that you brought this up because I wouldn't be able to respond otherwise. This will go back into my social programs thread; I do change my mind when I'm proven wrong.

[Write Winger]

Poverty is picking the runway gravel out of your gruel after a UN airdrop.