An American hero

[Nono]

From the BBC:

The Washington Post has confirmed a former deputy chief of the FBI was Deep Throat, the source who leaked secrets during the Watergate scandal.
Vanity Fair magazine had reported Mark Felt admitted being the source whose identity had been secret for decades. (...)

[RickSp]

It is interesting to see the split in opinions. Most Americans view Deep Throat as a courageous, even heroic figure, a view I share. Some, especially the old Nixon era Republicans like Pat Buchanon and Chuck Colson, are calling him a "disloyal" criminal.

Easy to see why Felt felt the need to leak secretly considering the likes of these scoundrels.

[Nono]

Jeez, slimesters like Buchanon and Colson disapprove of his actions! Will wonders never cease?

[Imudman]

Do you even remember Watergate? The big deal about it wasn't the break-in; it was the cover-up. People have been making this out to be some kind of monumental treachery for far too long. It pales in comparison to what WJC did...

[Nono]

Yeah, Slick Willie the Anti-Christ.

When you say the word Watergate, people don't think of burglars, they think of subversion of the US constitution on a massive scale.

Go back to sleep.

[fedfem]

Quote by: Imudman Do you even remember Watergate? The big deal about it wasn't the break-in; it was the cover-up. People have been making this out to be some kind of monumental treachery for far too long. It pales in comparison to what WJC did...

I remember Watergate and have studied it exstensively--it was more than the break-ins or the cover-up. It pales in comparison to what this administration is doing though.

Lots of correlations though--the reelection issues, the break-ins, the wiretapping etc--

[Imudman]

Quote by: Nono Yeah, Slick Willie the Anti-Christ. When you say the word Watergate, people don't think of burglars, they think of subversion of the US constitution on a massive scale. Go back to sleep.

Zzzzz... What's that? You're right when you say that's what most people think of. But they're all wrong. The real subversion happened long before Tricky Dick was ever born. No, what happened at the Watergate was peanuts compared to selling nuclear technology to the Chicoms.

I'm no fan of GWB either...

[Mr.Vicchio]

Ya know, had his identity became public within the first three-five years, he'd be in prison for breaking the law.

[Nono]

Quote by: Imudman The real subversion happened long before Tricky Dick was ever born.

Listen Mudman, when I look around today even I miss Evil Dick. Still, Watergate is the story of a paranoid autocrat being nudged into falling on his sword by people who just couldn't accept what was so obviously wrong. Deep Throat was indispensable in this.

I'd've liked to see Kissinger strung up by his hemhorrhoids too, but one has to make do with what one gets. :)

[RickSp]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Ya know, had his identity became public within the first three-five years, he'd be in prison for breaking the law.

In the words of Patrick Henry, "If this be treason, make the most of it."

There are two few with courage today and far too many scoundrels.

[Mr.Vicchio]

Rick, that comment would only hold true if:

He had no other alternative means of divulging the info.

He had no ulterior motives.


Guess what, on both of those, the answer is he HAD a proper legal avenue, and his motive was revenge against Nixon for passing him as FBI head.

Hero? No, he was no hero.

[RickSp]

Somehow I'm not surprised Mr. V. You seem to think that loyalty to presidents who abuse the power of the office is a good thing. Just follow orders like a good Storm Tro...err American

Nixon was playing the FBI for strictly political purposes. Felt's boss was a political appointee put in office immediately before Watergate. Anyone who stepped out of line was fired. Look at Special Prosecutor Archie Cox. The FBI swooped in an sealed his office on orders of the President.

If Felt had gone "through channels" everything would have been just fine. Sure, it would. And the Easter Bunny really puts eggs on the White House lawn at Easter.

Felt did the right thing. He was and is a hero.

In the most traumatic government upheaval of the Watergate crisis, President Nixon yesterday discharged Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox and accepted the resignations of Attorney General Elliot L. Richardson and Deputy Attorney General William D. Ruckelshaus. The President also abolished the office of the special prosecutor and turned over to the Justice Department the entire responsibility for further investigation and prosecution of suspects and defendants in Watergate and related cases. Shortly after the White House announcement, FBI agents sealed off the offices of Richardson and Ruckelshaus in the Justice Department and at Cox's headquarters in an office building on K Street NW. An FBI spokesman said the agents moved in "at the request of the White House." Agents told staff members in Cox's office they would be allowed to take out only personal papers. A Justice Department official said the FBI agents and building guards at Richardson's and Ruckelshaus' offices were there "to be sure that nothing was taken out." Richardson resigned when Mr. Nixon instructed him to fire Cox and Richardson refused. When the President then asked Ruckelshaus to dismiss Cox, he refused, White House spokesman Ronald L. Ziegler said, and he was fired. Ruckelshaus said he resigned.

Nixon Forces Firing of Cox

[fedfem]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Rick, that comment would only hold true if: He had no other alternative means of divulging the info. He had no ulterior motives. Guess what, on both of those, the answer is he HAD a proper legal avenue, and his motive was revenge against Nixon for passing him as FBI head. Hero? No, he was no hero.

First of all, his role was mostly confirming and denying what the reporters uncovered.

He had no other means to alert the public to what the government was up to. Look what happened to Elsberg--back then your reputation and even your life and that of your family's was at risk with the ruffians.

[lsbskins1]

You believe his motivation was revenge for passing him over for top cop. I say his motivation was that he saw the consequence of putting a loyalist in the top cop position, knew that it was dangerous to our nation and knew that Nixon passed him over specifically so that he could subvert the power of the FBI by having a loyalist in place rather than the man most qualified for the position. One of Nixon's major objectives was the breaking of the power of what he considered on obstructionist beurocracy. He felt that the power of the executive was diminished by the promotion of men from within the various agencies and sought to break the power of the different depts by putting his own loyal men in the top positions. He sought to control the Justice Dept, State Dept, etc through appointing men such as Grey and that was necessary because he wanted to move the government towards a super-powerful Executive branch. It was all about control and power and his actions while in office are proof positive why that is dangerous and needed to be stopped. He did not use the power to further the cause of the nation, he used it to cover his own ass and to damage those who had a different vision of how the country should opperate. So, arguing that Clinton, who never came close to that kind of perversion of power, was worse than Nixon, is worse than assinine.

[Zeebadee]

Anyone that feigns friendship during the day and sneaks around at night ratting out people is no hero. He knows it too, keeping anonymous all these years because no one would ever have trusted him again, once a stoolie, always a stoolie. If he had really thought his actions were honorable, he wouldn't have kept hidden away for 30 years. Nixon would have been ousted anyway, nothing this conniving little snitch did was ever really indespensible.

[Mr.Vicchio]

I am not passing judgement ont he result of his actions, but the means and reasons.

He broke the rules, if not the laws, and his reason?

Petty, he didn't do this out of patriotism, or because he had a problem with what was happening (in 1980 he was convicted of basically the SAME DAMN THING as watergate) but he wanted revenge for being denied head of the FBI.

[RickSp]

Mr. V, even if you can only find pettiness as a justification, I have no doubt that his reasons were complex yet primarily fueled by a concern that Nixon was taking over the FBI for political purposes, as he was indeed attempting to do. The FBI used as a private police force for an imperial president.

But it doesn't at all surprise me that the conservatives call Felt names. A badge of honor, really, considering the source.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: RickSp Mr. V, even if you can only find pettiness as a justification, I have no doubt that his reasons were complex yet primarily fueled by a concern that Nixon was taking over the FBI for political purposes, as he was indeed attempting to do. The FBI used as a private police force for an imperial president. But it doesn't at all surprise me that the conservatives call Felt names. A badge of honor, really, considering the source.

A badge of honor?? Richardson and Ruckelshaus were honorable, felt was nothing more than a snake, hiding in the shadows at night, collecting his pay and keeping his chances for promotion viable. Personal ambitions and that cushy job were the reasons felt turned stool pigeon, not conscience or patriotism. That's why he hid, ashamed, for all these years. Even he knows he's a rat.

If you think felt was honorable, then I guess you wouldn't mind having someone in your organization that doesn't agree with everything you do work behind the scenes to stab you in the back.

[fedfem]

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio I am not passing judgement ont he result of his actions, but the means and reasons. He broke the rules, if not the laws, and his reason? Petty, he didn't do this out of patriotism, or because he had a problem with what was happening (in 1980 he was convicted of basically the SAME DAMN THING as watergate) but he wanted revenge for being denied head of the FBI.

So how do you feel about Joe Wilson? He spoke out publically and look what happened to him and his wife Valerie Plame...both of their careers have been sabotaged.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Zeebadee If you think felt was honorable, then I guess you wouldn't mind having someone in your organization that doesn't agree with everything you do work behind the scenes to stab you in the back.

And if the leader of the organization was involved in a crime and this was the only way to get the word out?

Pretty typical of the right - loyalty is always more important than justice.