Don't we need higher taxes nowadays?

[tman_ndsu08]

Any amount is too much in principle.

[Lou Minotti]

It makes perfect sense... ok, lets say you make 15 dollars an hour... a year you would make 35,000 dollars a year approximately. this woud put you in the "under 40,000 section"....the tax is then 10$ a year. only 10$ a year.

What are you talking about? I make much less then $35,000 per year and pay much more then $10 per year. MUCH more. What makes "perfect sense" here?

[castille]

One simple question about raising taxes: How can we be sure the government is going to use the money efficiently?

[Samildanach]

You mean you don't call the Iraq war efficent use of tax payers dollars...lol

[Agent007]

Before raising taxes, we should ensure that government revenue is appropriated properly. The federal government spends money on welfare programs like those for substance abuse treatment, when this money could be spent on something else. If there is nothing else, it should never have come out of our piggybanks. However, if the government's spending is stretched too much, then higher taxes are needed, especially for the treatment of the national debt.

[Leopard]

I love this:

So how about $2.00 a year for anyone earning 12,000 or under. $10.00 a year for anyone earning more then 12 but under 40 thousand a year. And $50.00 bucks a year for those with larger incomes then already noted. With millions of people involved that would add up to enough to fund schools, fire and police departments, and social services. But of course that is just and estimation which is not based any figures about amounts that I was able to totally reseach.

then later, this gem...

It makes perfect sense... ok, lets say you make 15 dollars an hour... a year you would make 35,000 dollars a year approximately. this woud put you in the "under 40,000 section"....the tax is then 10$ a year. only 10$ a year.

With a population of 300mil and perhaps 20% of that being children, that leaves about 240 million folks. If everyone paid $10 that would amount to a whole 2.4 billion.... a drop in the bucket and not enough to accomplish anything, ESPECIALLY anything done by inefficient government!

Here is a question for you, Technosoul:
Take any one part of the things you want to fix, lets say 'better education'. Why not have all the people in a neighborhood or community get together that want to and just pay whatever they think is proper to fund the education for their children? The parents obviously value their own child's education, right? I am sure they would be willing to 'chip in' quite alot, as long as they didn't have to pay the standard forced property taxes which usually fund the public education. In that way they could also have control over 'what' was being taught to their children. Get the government out of the loop altogether. Same for fire departments and any of the other things you want to fix.

[Zeebadee]

With a population of 300 million, and about 300 billion dollars spent on the Iraq war, that works out to $1000 for every one of us. And that's just for Bush's war. Tell us more how $10 each is gonna save the country.

[iamhaneef]

i don't really think higher taxes is required for most people. I thinnk a better redistribution of taxes is needed. Why should average joe raking in 50,000 a year pay 25,000 in taxes when 50 cent gets 4,000,000 a year and he doensn't have to pay 2,000,000 in taxes.

How much do rappers/rockers/pop-stars and those celebrity types pay in taxes? Probably not enough.

[Leopard]

Quote by: iamhaneef i don't really think higher taxes is required for most people. I thinnk a better redistribution of taxes is needed. Why should average joe raking in 50,000 a year pay 25,000 in taxes when 50 cent gets 4,000,000 a year and he doensn't have to pay 2,000,000 in taxes. How much do rappers/rockers/pop-stars and those celebrity types pay in taxes? Probably not enough.

you are joking, right? 50 cent doesn't 'get' his income, he earns it by applying his talents and skills... people pay him because they value his labor, whatever it happens to be.

What are taxes anyways? Supposedly they are an effort to collect from citizens the cost of their government which protects them and their rights and perhaps provides some services. So, since we all supposedly are protected equally, then we should all pay equally. Take the population, divide it into the government budget, and that is the cost to each citizen for the protection of government. I think it comes to about $10k per year per adult person. If you don't pay, then you get exported until you do. Now THAT is a truely fair tax, its commonly called a head tax.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Leopard Take the population, divide it into the government budget, and that is the cost to each citizen for the protection of government. I think it comes to about $10k per year per adult person.

Actually, a person that has or makes more money is in a better position to enjoy the standard of life in the U.S. much more than someone making less. Those with money have access to better education, housing, health care, etc. Everything costs money in this society, those that can afford the best maybe ought to pay a bit more than us schmucks barely scraping by.

[iamhaneef]

so what are we doing that makes that head tax not work. Most families still end up paying alot of taxes. That head tax must suck on homeless. Way to make the bourgeoisie more apparent. Get rid of the poor so there is only a middle class and upper class in america that owns the world. Whoops, i didn't just say that.

[Leopard]

That has nothing to do with government. Government exists to protect our rights, which are equal, provide some sort of legal system, and mostly to provide some sort of national defense.

The fact that one person earns more and thus can spend more money has nothing to do with government - it is their own talents, luck, labor, etc, that brought this condition about.

Why do you say that 'those that can afford the best' ought to pay for those schmucks that can only manage to scrape by? Do the productive people have some obligation to take care of unproductive people? We 'schmucks' actually already greatly benefit from having those productive persons around: the reason they have money is because us schmucks really like whatever it is they do for us, from providing us with goods cheaper or better than the next guy, or by entertaining us, or whatever. Now you propose to steal their rightfully earned money and labor? I thought we outlawed slavery in this country...

[Leopard]

Quote by: iamhaneef so what are we doing that makes that head tax not work. Most families still end up paying alot of taxes. That head tax must suck on homeless. Way to make the bourgeoisie more apparent. Get rid of the poor so there is only a middle class and upper class in america that owns the world. Whoops, i didn't just say that.

actually, the reason I suggest a head tax at all is because it really makes apparent how expensive our government is, especially considering what we each get for our money. If we did go to a 'head tax', the first thing that would happen is a direct reduction in the size of government and people would be very wary of how their tax money was spent by government.

I propose that a government serves a purpose to its citizens, the same purpose described in the Declaration:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,–That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

the government is meant to secure our rights (not priviledges, mind you) and each of us benefit equally from this as we all have equal rights. A rich person has the same exact right not to be murdered as a poor person, everyone has the same right to trade or try to improve their lives in some way, etc.

It is NOT the purpose of government to provide healthcare, or education, or food, or housing, or all the other things that are the responsibility of each person to earn and enjoy.

I don't understand what you are talking about when you say "Get rid of the poor so there is only a middle class and upper class in america that owns the world." - everyone, rich or poor, benefit from interaction with the other. Its one of the really neat things about a thing described as 'division of labor' and is the primary reason that people join together and create cities and societies. Anyways, the 'rich' can become 'poor' very easily just the same as the poor become rich. We are not stuck in any sort of economic condition except by the choices we make - some folks just don't think that the effort is worth it to become 'rich' and some people have desire to improve their condition no matter what effort it takes - its not a zero-sum game, everyone can increase their own standard of living if they wanted to.

[kubedawg]

Well, here's my take on the whole higher taxes thing. It sucks! And here's why. I am paying taxes for a lot of things these days, things I didn't even know where my money was going.

I'd rather have donations to schools and medical facilites and all other kinds of things so at least I know exactly where my money is going. Sure I don't have a choice but to pay taxes, but if the law changed stating I could give to whatever kind of place whether it be to fund welfare, or anything else, a certain amount of money, equivelent to the amount of money I'm paying currently for taxes.

Sure, when I have children I'd love to put them in a great school system with updated technology, good teachers, and an overall good school, but I also think the schools need to take it up a notch by charging a certain annual fee for all public schools, not a large fee, but I seriously believe it would make for a quicker and more efficient way for the schools to make money and become good quality school systems.

Now on the other hand, there are some issues at hand that need to be discussed, like welfare, for instance. Personally I see no need for it. People make screwed up decisions, and end up broke as a joke, in debt, 25/50/100k in debt, even more, and some people live in shitty houses/apartments, living with family, friends and so on not doing anything productive with their lives.

Sure people hate to work, yes, some develop careers and love their jobs, and to those people, I commend for doing a great job. But, if you are dealt a shitty hand, I still believe you should have to work for your money, instead of me paying my HARD earned taxes to someone who doesn't care.

Now, I may sound a bit like im geralizing this whole welfare thing to make it seem like a bad thing, and it is for the most part. It doesn't work well. There needs to be another way for people to make their livings. And it's called the job section in the classified ad's.

For the druggies, and the drunks, that are regretting everything they did wrong, they need to get off their asses, and forget the past, and make the best of their lives instead of living a piss poor life.

But, I cannot change the way people think, however, bu the government probably can.

Every minute of every day many people are trying to get new laws passed, and lower taxes, and it's one big cluster****, but our government can only handle a few things at once. And it's our ideas and beliefs that made these taxes higher. If you think it's not our beliefs, then whya re taxes increasing? somebody must have said something, and I can garun-damn-tee you that it started with a regular citezin as an idea, that sounded good at the time, and a lot of people understood what it was all about, and unfortunately, some people are downright stupid, and sadly most of america agree with this stuff, and here, the majority rules.

[Libertarian]

Quote by: kubedawg Well, here's my take on the whole higher taxes thing. It sucks! And here's why. I am paying taxes for a lot of things these days, things I didn't even know where my money was going. I'd rather have donations to schools and medical facilites and all other kinds of things so at least I know exactly where my money is going. Sure I don't have a choice but to pay taxes, but if the law changed stating I could give to whatever kind of place whether it be to fund welfare, or anything else, a certain amount of money, equivelent to the amount of money I'm paying currently for taxes.

The idea of giving your money equal to the amount of taxes, where ever you want, is a very novel idea. But this would lead to people only funding things that is what they want. The taxes are for the greater good of America and many times things would not get funding as needed if we choose where we give our money. I feel that change, and a lot of change, is needed in our tax system, but the idea of doniating taxes is giving responisbility to people who cannot even handle the responsibility they have currently.

[Leopard]

wow! a 'libertarian' who talks about the 'greater good' - what is this greater good? Isn't america made up of a whole bunch of individuals, and each person is the best determiner of what constitutes 'good' to them? Is it 'good' for the muslim american to be forced to fund an invasion of places he considers holy? Does the catholic consider it 'good' to help fund abortions? How about a homeschooling parent, is it 'good' for them to be forced to help pay for the education of others at government schools? Is it good for me to pay for roads that I never use, or the healthcare for irresponsible people?

People seem to be able to figure out for themselves which charities to donate to just fine. They also are able to feed and clothe themselves and generally make 'good' decisions. When they make mistakes, they tend to learn from them, and not repeat them in the future.

Are you of the mind that people are generally stupid? I take it by your post that you know where and how they should spend their money - how did you come by this information? You state that 'many things would not get funding as needed', what determines if something is 'needed' or not? If people do not recognize this need then I would say that it really isn't needed.

[Libertarian]

There are many programs that do need funding. And many times only congress has the information to base the decision on. This can occur b/c of classified data or the extinsive time that they spend on public policy. And the greater good is what democracy is about. Yes I do believe that the government should have a smaller role in many day-to-day activities, but the taxes are one thing that a) should be lowered so as such people have money to spend where they want and b) have the money that the government get accountable to the people. And the people elect the congressmen and women to decide the 'tough' decisions, and money is one of the hot topics in todays society.

[Leopard]

Classified data? Like... welfare? or national healthcare? Medicare/Medicaid? Tariffs? Highways?Education? these things have classified data? I will give you a pass on National Defense, sure, but all the other things?

Question: Do you believe that the War in Iraq is a 'defensive' war? Is it making us safer? Of course we would be 'safer' if we killed every other human on the planet except those in our own country, thats obviously not what I mean.

[Zeebadee]

Quote by: Leopard The fact that one person earns more and thus can spend more money has nothing to do with government - it is their own talents, luck, labor, etc, that brought this condition about. Why do you say that 'those that can afford the best' ought to pay for those schmucks that can only manage to scrape by? Do the productive people have some obligation to take care of unproductive people?

You seem to laboring under the assumption that just because a person is rich he's more productive. There are many ways to be rich without providing any productivity at all. And anybody that believes that "our rights, which are equal", that rich and poor are treated alike by society, the legal system, or any other scale you choose to apply really is a schmuck.

[Libertarian]

Quote by: Leopard Classified data? Like... welfare? or national healthcare? Medicare/Medicaid? Tariffs? Highways?Education? these things have classified data? I will give you a pass on National Defense, sure, but all the other things?

But when persons cannot get all the information, congress lives to get that info. Most people to not have the time or rescorces to figure out each place that needs funding. There is also many places that most people do not know get funding and that need it. Congress complies and votes on the funding as there jobs. That is why they are elected. We are a representitive democracy and not a true democracy. We have this system to help the country keep its self on its feet. Not just to fund one or two aspects of it.