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RickSp · Jun 1, 2005, 05:49 pm

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Quote by: moustache

I am aware that David Kay went over to the other side. But the fact is the statements that he put out were true at the time, as they remain true today.

"Went over to the other side"? The man shows some professionalism and integrity and you refer to him as if he was Darth Vader. You war-mongers are unbelievable. True believers to the end.

moustache · Jun 1, 2005, 07:27 pm

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Quote by: RickSp

"Went over to the other side"? The man shows some professionalism and integrity and you refer to him as if he was Darth Vader.

Wemt over to the other side of the issue..

moustache · Jun 1, 2005, 07:30 pm

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Quote by: grandpa

Good samaritans don't attack innocent people along with the guilty.

My point was that sometimes, laws dont make alot of sense..

Mr.Vicchio · Jun 1, 2005, 07:43 pm

Knuckled under the pressure?

That's some fine revisionist history!

Gulf War 1991, Iraq lost, and when you lose a war, you have to suffer the consequences. Saddam's Iraq REFUSED to abide by those terms, for 12 years.

Nice try Gorgo. History > You.

Gorgo · Jun 1, 2005, 09:25 pm

Actually, Iraq complied with the inspectors, and the rules against him, even though the original Gulf War was as illegal as the second. There were some problems, but all in all, Iraq complied, sometimes not because they wanted to, and the U.S. still screwed them over. They put spies in with the inspectors, and they lied about Iraq's compliance. Then when they threatened war over nothing again, Iraq complied again, only to be screwed over once more.

And your continued support of these criminals is noted.

"U.S. officials have stated that sanctions would remain even if Iraq complied with United Nations inspectors, indicating a lack of genuine U.S. support for UN resolutions and giving the Iraqi regime virtually no incentive to comply. Moreover, the failure of both the United States and the United Nations to explicitly spell out what was needed in order for sanctions to be lifted contributed to Iraq’s decision to suspend its cooperation with UN inspectors in December 1998."

http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n01iraq_body.html

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 03:48 pm

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America is an abstract entity, so there's nothing to love.

Sure there is. It's plurality, it's ethic, its genious, it's Constitution, it's strength, it's generous people.
I can think of a zillion things.

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I don't love America anymore than Sweden or Spain.

Well, that's a shame. Sweden was neutral in WW2.

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It's just a system of government that often makes decisions that do the opposite of protecting its own citizens.

Well, it is not just a system of government as I've shown. A nation consists of many things outside of it's government.

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Flags and national anthems are meaningless to me, as I think they should be to anyone.

That's a shame.
You feel you owe no obligation for a nation that has allowed you to persue your dreams?

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Our government supported dictators directly, that's "what of them."

Oh sheesh. And here I thought you had something important to say.

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Seems to me that if a country wants to spread freedom it doesn't support dictators and seek out warfare wherever it can find it.

And the world is not a perfect place. Decisions had to be made at the time which made it wise to support enemies of our enemies in order to prevent that enemy from their imperialist machinations.

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The U.S., was an important part of every transaction made by Iraq.

That is not true.

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The U.S. knew exactly what was going on, and if they didn't, it was because they didn't want to.

Oh, Im pretty sure they knew about the abuse of the OFF scandal, it was reported in the press before the war began.

It doesn't change the fact that the nations deeply involved in the scandal were the ones that happened to be the same ones who opposed the war.

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Again, you have no evidence of that or you'd bring it.

Actually, thats my opinion. A lot of people share that opinion which I believe explains why he's not a very popular fellow. Numerous people who seem to care about him more than I have spent considerable more time dissecting, discrediting and marginalizing Chomsky's arguments.

Oh, btw, have you found any comments from Chomsky that are positive about America yet?

fedfem · Jun 2, 2005, 04:07 pm

You do realize US companies were involved in the so called Oil for food scandal, I hope?

Most of the accusations that have been made are false btw. Finding greed and kickbacks whenever major corporations are involved is no big surprise but to make it out to be a bigger scandal than it really was is just misdirection by those who know what pushes the buttons of their supporters.

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 04:34 pm

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You do realize US companies were involved in the so called Oil for food scandal, I hope?

I realize that there appears to be a few, yes. However that did not stop our government from doing what needed to be done. In the case of france, russia, canada and others it did.

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Most of the accusations that have been made are false btw.

Really? Like what?

Gorgo · Jun 2, 2005, 04:41 pm

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Quote by: The Analog Kid

Oh, btw, have you found any comments from Chomsky that are positive about America yet?

Do your own research if you care.

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 04:45 pm

We'll accept that as a "NO".
I've done research on it and haven't found one positive statement. Thats why I issued a challenge to all the Chomsky boot lickers.

The fact that nobody can find any positive comments by Chomsky about America clearly demonstrates that the argument "he loves his country and wants it to live up the values it claims to represent", is nothing but crap.

All evidence suggests that he hates this country and everything it represents.

Gorgo · Jun 2, 2005, 04:51 pm

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Quote by: The Analog Kid

Thats why I issued a challenge to all the Chomsky boot lickers.

The fact that we can see that you don't give a shit about facts shows me that I don't have time to look up shit that you won't look at anyway. The fact that you can't find it yourself means that you just don't want to look.

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 05:01 pm

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The fact that we can see that you don't give a shit about facts shows me that I don't have time to look up shit that you won't look at anyway.

What facts don't I give a shit about?

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The fact that you can't find it yourself means that you just don't want to look.

I've looked. The fact that you, as a an apparrant Chomsky boot licker, have nothing to contribute, means that I was right in asserting Chomsky hates Amercia.
Do you love or hate America?

Gorgo · Jun 2, 2005, 05:13 pm

In an interview with David Barsamian:

"The previous caller had asked whether I had ever said anything nice about the United States. The answer is, very often. One of the things that's extremely nice about the United States is the degree of freedom that it has. It is a free society, much more so than any other, and that very freedom has led to problems. If you can't control people by force, you have to figure out other ways to control them. "

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 05:23 pm

Source?

fedfem · Jun 2, 2005, 05:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Analog Kid

What facts don't I give a shit about?

I've looked. The fact that you, as a an apparrant Chomsky boot licker, have nothing to contribute, means that I was right in asserting Chomsky hates Amercia.
Do you love or hate America?

There are more than two options. Chomsky loves freedom and knowledge and language and communication.

I personally love the American ideal and values the country was founded upon and will fight to keep them in sight.

I do not "Love" what certain adminstrations have done as a matter of policy now nor in the past,

As far as your bootlicker comments, most of us who do not agree with you have said we don't agree with Chomsky on all things but still respect him.

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 05:27 pm

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There are more than two options. Chomsky loves freedom and knowledge and language and communication.

If he loves freedom, why has he supported communist dictatorships?

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I personally love the American ideal and values the country was founded upon and will fight to keep them in sight.

Good. I agree.

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I do not "Love" what certain adminstrations have done as a matter of policy now nor in the past,

Good. I agree on that as well. We probably disagree on what we'd consider good or bad policy.

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As far as your bootlicker comments, most of us who do not agree with you have said we don't agree with Chomsky on all things but still respect him.

That is a fair point and I accept it.

Gorgo · Jun 2, 2005, 05:27 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Analog Kid

Source?

"Chronicles of Dissent" a book by David Barsamian and Noam Chomsky

Gorgo · Jun 2, 2005, 05:28 pm

Quote:

Quote by: The Analog Kid

If he loves freedom, why has he supported communist dictatorships?

Source?

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 05:34 pm

Quote:

"Chronicles of Dissent" a book by David Barsamian and Noam Chomsky

So you've been unable to find anything online and have apparently found one quote from a book.

We may have documentation of him saying one nice thing from a book in which he was not motivated to make the positive comment on his own but was responding to a specific question whether he's said anything positive.

Thats pretty telling.

The Analog Kid · Jun 2, 2005, 05:35 pm

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Quote by: Gorgo

Source?

His support of the Communists in Vietnam is well documented. Of course, you just dismiss it.

Jun 1, 2005, 07:43 pm	#144 (permalink) (top)
Mr.Vicchio Navy Veteran Location: Texas Posts: 6,335	Knuckled under the pressure? That's some fine revisionist history! Gulf War 1991, Iraq lost, and when you lose a war, you have to suffer the consequences. Saddam's Iraq REFUSED to abide by those terms, for 12 years. Nice try Gorgo. History > You. Einstein's "Theory of Relativity" is still being challenged to this day, but by consensus Global Warming is a fact... that's REAL science at work, why didn't Albert just go that route?

Jun 1, 2005, 09:25 pm	#145 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	Actually, Iraq complied with the inspectors, and the rules against him, even though the original Gulf War was as illegal as the second. There were some problems, but all in all, Iraq complied, sometimes not because they wanted to, and the U.S. still screwed them over. They put spies in with the inspectors, and they lied about Iraq's compliance. Then when they threatened war over nothing again, Iraq complied again, only to be screwed over once more. And your continued support of these criminals is noted. "U.S. officials have stated that sanctions would remain even if Iraq complied with United Nations inspectors, indicating a lack of genuine U.S. support for UN resolutions and giving the Iraqi regime virtually no incentive to comply. Moreover, the failure of both the United States and the United Nations to explicitly spell out what was needed in order for sanctions to be lifted contributed to Iraq’s decision to suspend its cooperation with UN inspectors in December 1998." http://www.fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n01iraq_body.html Last edited by Gorgo; Jun 1, 2005 at 09:28 pm.

Jun 2, 2005, 04:07 pm	#147 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	You do realize US companies were involved in the so called Oil for food scandal, I hope? Most of the accusations that have been made are false btw. Finding greed and kickbacks whenever major corporations are involved is no big surprise but to make it out to be a bigger scandal than it really was is just misdirection by those who know what pushes the buttons of their supporters.

Jun 2, 2005, 04:45 pm	#150 (permalink) (top)
The Analog Kid Igneous Magma Posts: 216	We'll accept that as a "NO". I've done research on it and haven't found one positive statement. Thats why I issued a challenge to all the Chomsky boot lickers. The fact that nobody can find any positive comments by Chomsky about America clearly demonstrates that the argument "he loves his country and wants it to live up the values it claims to represent", is nothing but crap. All evidence suggests that he hates this country and everything it represents.

Jun 2, 2005, 05:13 pm	#153 (permalink) (top)
Gorgo BANNED-Warned multiple times about instigating. User then reported topics multiple times to mess with staff. Posts: 4,412	In an interview with David Barsamian: "The previous caller had asked whether I had ever said anything nice about the United States. The answer is, very often. One of the things that's extremely nice about the United States is the degree of freedom that it has. It is a free society, much more so than any other, and that very freedom has led to problems. If you can't control people by force, you have to figure out other ways to control them. "

Jun 2, 2005, 05:23 pm	#154 (permalink) (top)
The Analog Kid Igneous Magma Posts: 216	Source?