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tinybear · May 30, 2005, 02:34 pm

Who made this necessary though? We want a lasting peace and a lasting democracy in Iraq.

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. "

jose · May 30, 2005, 02:44 pm

And shall we take into account what the Iraqies want?

Zeebadee · May 30, 2005, 02:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Who made this necessary though? We want a lasting peace and a lasting democracy in Iraq.

Don't you think the issue should be what the Iraqi's want instead of what we want?

Quote:

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. "

I think we can all agree by now that Iraq was never a threat to our liberty. I wish I could say the same for our current administration.

gr8fuldaniel · May 30, 2005, 03:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Who made this necessary though? We want a lasting peace and a lasting democracy in Iraq.

And what if North Korea or Russia decides they want to fix our problems for us? Hunky Dory?

tinybear · May 30, 2005, 04:12 pm

I think North Korea and Russia have enough of their own problems.

tinybear · May 30, 2005, 04:16 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Zeebadee

Don't you think the issue should be what the Iraqi's want instead of what we want?

I think we can all agree by now that Iraq was never a threat to our liberty. I wish I could say the same for our current administration.

Yeah, sure, let Iraqis decide at the polls what they want instead of being blown up into bits and pieces, shall we?

If Iraqis decide they want liberty, we'll help them get it. We will support any friend and oppose any foe to achieve this.

gr8fuldaniel · May 30, 2005, 04:17 pm

We have our share of problems without dumping 300 BILLION dollars (so far) into an extermination project that only serves to fatten corporate pigs.

Edit: But that didnt stop us from raping and pillaging and murdering innocents who never asked for "help".

tinybear · May 30, 2005, 04:25 pm

How could they have asked for help when the tyrant had his hands around their necks?

Osborn F Enready · May 30, 2005, 05:46 pm

Tinybear said:
You get to choose your government Osborn. Is that not enough? Spare a thought for those far less fortunate than you; like those poor Chinese for example. Think about them every time you think your rights have been taken away by a government you chose.

I say:
Get a grip! How many people are in China? How many people are in Chinese Government? If they wanted liberty, they could HAVE IT! Arm every liberty loving chinese with a couple of rocks, and the government is gonna lose when the people outnumber the government to that extent.

The problem is, the government is so strong now, because the people believed in Nationalism for so long it is almost impossible for them to open a clear line of communication between the groups of citizens who want to stage a revolt without the government catching on at its early stages.

You have to understand that liberty has NEVER been given! It has always been fought for, claimed and defended in the few examples that exist.(not many still do)
If the Chinese people WANTED liberty enough, they would take it, just like everyone else had to.

Our problem is in the U.S., people have not been kept aware of government decisions, actions and policy. Between the corporate media, and the corporate commercial visions of normalcy that is pushed in all media, educational and economic classism is at its biggest gap ever.

The poor have to work twice as much to earn less, while the rich work less and earn more. Pensions are dissolved, tax shelters are abused, politics are paid for instead of fought for in the land of public opinion.

China has one advantage over us. Most of their populace KNOWS they have a self-serviant government, and elite class. Many in America still believe the spoon-fed tripe they are told by the White House press corps, many haven't EXPERIENCED the problems, so they don't accept that they exist. Many can't even HEAR opinions that differ from their own, because it forces them to consider why they stand where they do on the issues, and they have no legitimate base to stand on since its all spoon fed lies.(Unless they are authoritarian, Nazis like the Neocons and the Neu-Liberals which are just plain an enemy of this nations constitution and ideals.)

If they had ACTUAL good morals, and belief in our system, they would defend it AND PROVIDE FACTS AND ACCOUNTABILITY for their decisions, and all actions. That ended about 160 years ago.

Its going to be interesting for the next 50 to 75 years here on planet earth. Tune in at 11, for the rest of the story.

Agent007 · May 30, 2005, 06:14 pm

it's actually painfully symbolic that americans would act with more rage and fury when the constitution is burned than if their holy books were burned. its painfully symbolic that they would cry more tears when their president is dies than when their religious leaders die. its painfully symbolic that americans generally that egotistic and secular. Shame. Shame.

Osborn F Enready · May 30, 2005, 06:34 pm

Agent, we are not all blind faith loyalists to theories we can't prove.

Its called being a realist, instead of a religionist.

May 30, 2005, 04:17 pm	#67 (permalink) (top)
gr8fuldaniel Fire the Liars Location: California Posts: 7,090	We have our share of problems without dumping 300 BILLION dollars (so far) into an extermination project that only serves to fatten corporate pigs. Edit: But that didnt stop us from raping and pillaging and murdering innocents who never asked for "help". ~~ Helpful Linx * Huff Post * WRH * RAW STORY ~~

May 30, 2005, 05:46 pm	#69 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,907	Tinybear said: You get to choose your government Osborn. Is that not enough? Spare a thought for those far less fortunate than you; like those poor Chinese for example. Think about them every time you think your rights have been taken away by a government you chose. I say: Get a grip! How many people are in China? How many people are in Chinese Government? If they wanted liberty, they could HAVE IT! Arm every liberty loving chinese with a couple of rocks, and the government is gonna lose when the people outnumber the government to that extent. The problem is, the government is so strong now, because the people believed in Nationalism for so long it is almost impossible for them to open a clear line of communication between the groups of citizens who want to stage a revolt without the government catching on at its early stages. You have to understand that liberty has NEVER been given! It has always been fought for, claimed and defended in the few examples that exist.(not many still do) If the Chinese people WANTED liberty enough, they would take it, just like everyone else had to. Our problem is in the U.S., people have not been kept aware of government decisions, actions and policy. Between the corporate media, and the corporate commercial visions of normalcy that is pushed in all media, educational and economic classism is at its biggest gap ever. The poor have to work twice as much to earn less, while the rich work less and earn more. Pensions are dissolved, tax shelters are abused, politics are paid for instead of fought for in the land of public opinion. China has one advantage over us. Most of their populace KNOWS they have a self-serviant government, and elite class. Many in America still believe the spoon-fed tripe they are told by the White House press corps, many haven't EXPERIENCED the problems, so they don't accept that they exist. Many can't even HEAR opinions that differ from their own, because it forces them to consider why they stand where they do on the issues, and they have no legitimate base to stand on since its all spoon fed lies.(Unless they are authoritarian, Nazis like the Neocons and the Neu-Liberals which are just plain an enemy of this nations constitution and ideals.) If they had ACTUAL good morals, and belief in our system, they would defend it AND PROVIDE FACTS AND ACCOUNTABILITY for their decisions, and all actions. That ended about 160 years ago. Its going to be interesting for the next 50 to 75 years here on planet earth. Tune in at 11, for the rest of the story. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

May 30, 2005, 06:34 pm	#71 (permalink) (top)
Osborn F Enready Principled Observer Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 13,907	Agent, we are not all blind faith loyalists to theories we can't prove. Its called being a realist, instead of a religionist. Petition of Redress of Grievances: http://www.givemeliberty.org/default.htm Canadian Lawsuit Against Their National Banks: http://www.freewebs.com/classaction/ Osborn F. Enready

May 30, 2005, 02:34 pm	#61 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	Who made this necessary though? We want a lasting peace and a lasting democracy in Iraq. "Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty. "

May 30, 2005, 02:44 pm	#62 (permalink) (top)
jose Volcanic Erupter Location: España Posts: 2,625	And shall we take into account what the Iraqies want?

May 30, 2005, 04:12 pm	#65 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	I think North Korea and Russia have enough of their own problems.

May 30, 2005, 04:25 pm	#68 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	How could they have asked for help when the tyrant had his hands around their necks?

May 30, 2005, 06:14 pm	#70 (permalink) (top)
Agent007 BANNED Posts: 302	it's actually painfully symbolic that americans would act with more rage and fury when the constitution is burned than if their holy books were burned. its painfully symbolic that they would cry more tears when their president is dies than when their religious leaders die. its painfully symbolic that americans generally that egotistic and secular. Shame. Shame.