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tman_ndsu08 · May 28, 2005, 01:43 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Fine her? She's lucky she's not facing a firing squad.

My point was that Indonesia is going to take a loss by keeping her in prison when they simply could've fined her and gained the money from her fine.

Now, instead, they'll end up spending money out of their own pocket to pay for food and lodging for a non citizen for the next 20 years.

Makes no sense.

tinybear · May 28, 2005, 02:07 pm

They're appealing her sentence you know. The Indonesian High Court could still send her to the firing squad.

tman_ndsu08 · May 28, 2005, 03:17 pm

And you're still missing the point entirely.

Although, I'll give you that a firing squad would initially be much more cost effective.

In the long run, however, I think they'd lose a lot of AUS tourists.

tinybear · May 28, 2005, 03:30 pm

You think? Bali's their favorite holiday destination. They won't stay away for long.

tman_ndsu08 · May 28, 2005, 03:37 pm

Interestingly enough, AUS itself is a favorite holiday destination of the US. Surely the AUS people have no reason to go abroad.

tinybear · May 28, 2005, 03:41 pm

The opulence of Bali's resort hotels and their impeccable service surpass that of the best Hawaii has to offer and certainly anything that Australia has to offer and at half the price too. Nah, the Aussies won't stay away for long. Hey, they stayed away immediately after that bombing incident. But less than a year later they were back in droves.

tman_ndsu08 · May 28, 2005, 03:47 pm

Ok fine, they won't stay away.

Still, the Indonesians could make a net gain by assessing her a fine and sending her home (as well as not losing the immediate money from AUS tourists not coming).

Simply killing her would still result in a net loss.

tinybear · May 28, 2005, 03:50 pm

Geez, you sound as if you think the legal system should be run like a commercial enterprise.

Cephus · May 28, 2005, 03:57 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Just don't travel to Indonesia.

Or just don't be a moron and try to smuggle drugs into a country where they have strong anti-drug laws.

tinybear · May 28, 2005, 03:58 pm

But, but...she wuz framed.

tman_ndsu08 · May 28, 2005, 05:14 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

Geez, you sound as if you think the legal system should be run like a commercial enterprise.

I'd settle for a legal system that uses common sense.

RVonse · May 28, 2005, 08:24 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

But, but...she wuz framed.

Or more likely there could have been a real drug smuggler that hid the stash in her stuff in order to facilitate getting through the check point. If I were a drug smuggler that thought would at least come to my mind. Why take a risk when you can let your fellow passenger get it through the gate.

And if someone plants something in your suitcase how do you prove it wasn't yours. Its not like drugs have a title of ownership.

tinybear · May 29, 2005, 03:21 pm

Quite scary when you come to think of it. Nowadays you're not even allowed to lock up your luggage when it's being checked-in.

cybacaT · May 31, 2005, 12:14 am

There are several things that epitomise Australia - we like to look after the underpriviliged, we like to have a good time, and we like to make sure everyone has "a fair go" - meaning a fair chance at life. We saw this after the tsunami that struck SE Asia - there was a great outpouring of compassion from Australia for those who were in need and suffering. Australia's compassion exceeded $1billion - not something we'd trumpet about in other circumstances, but an indication of where we're coming from.

We see in the Corby case that she wasn't given "a fair go". Guilt or Innocence is yet to be proven in my opinion - the only certainty is that she wasn't given a fair trial. The judge went out on a limb, contradicting Indonesian law by insisting that Corby herself needed to identify whose drugs they were. If planted at an airport, how could she possibly know? That's a totally unreasonable expectation. The judge took the word of customs officials as gospel, yet disregarded the views of Corby's travelling companions.

Worst of all, he ignored the most compelling evidence of all - LACK OF MOTIVE! Why the hell would anyone take marijuana that costs 100 times more to buy in Australia, to a place like Indonesia where it's a fraction of the price? It makes no sense whatsoever! Yet this most important of points was dismissed in the judges angry ranting during his verdict.

Australians are uniting now to show another side - we look after our own. Bali is off the list of holiday destinations for many, and we are now looking carefully at where goods are made. We won't buy goods made in Indonesia, and we won't visit there for holidays. This may be the best way to get our message across that Indonesia needs to join the 21st century and upgrade it's legal system to one that is fair. Until then Indonesia will feel the backlash.

tinybear · May 31, 2005, 12:34 am

Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, the court mucked up her trial. The burden of proof was effectively reversed. I don't know. Maybe that's Indonesian law. But it's certainly an unfair law if that's permitted. The 'motive' argument however may not help Corby much. Consider this report from Matthew Moore of The Sydney Morning Herald:

"Perhaps the most compelling reason so many Australians believe Schapelle
Corby is innocent is the "coals to Newcastle" argument: why would anyone
smuggle marijuana to Bali when everyone knows it's so easy to get there?

While drugs might seem freely available on the streets, the foreigners who
live in Bali, including those serving time in Kerobokan jail, say that
buying them is a very risky business because you never know if the seller is
an undercover police officer or a police informer.

For that reason, westerners in Bali are prepared to pay premium prices for
marijuana if they can get it from other Westerners, as that's the best way
to ensure they are not going to be trapped and arrested.

According to four sources in Bali contacted by The Age, including one former
and one current drug dealer, high-quality Australian marijuana, similar in
appearance to that found in Schapelle Corby's luggage, has been sold on a
limited basis in Bali for years, but only to Westerners.

One European man, now serving a jail term for possessing hashish, said he
knows of several Australians who have been bringing strong hydroponic
marijuana into Bali.

He said it brings "really good money", getting a price around 50 per cent
higher than the Nepalese hashish that is more widely available for around
$A16 a gram on the streets.

He said the marijuana was stronger than hashish, which is produced from the
same plant and has the same active constituents. "You just can't move, it's
like (being) brain dead," he said of its effect.

An Australian who says he's lived in Bali for 15 years contacted The Age
several times to say his children were frequently offered marijuana called
"Aussie gold". The man, who refused to give his name, said the "hydroponic
bud" smuggled from Australia sells for $A600 an ounce (about $A21 a gram) or
as much as $A20,000 a kilogram.

Top quality marijuana in Australia sells for around $8000 a kilogram,
although more when broken into "deals".

A Balinese drug dealer who has spent time in jail said he had smoked the
Australian "skunk" many times with friends from Italy, Germany and Australia
but had never bought or sold any.

He recognised the marijuana as Australian as it was made up of large flowers
or buds, while the marijuana he sells from Aceh in north Sumatra or from
Malang in East Java has much smaller buds and a lot of leaf mixed in.

Despite requests from Corby's lawyers, Indonesian police did not test the
marijuana in her bag to find out where it was grown or its strength, and it
is not certain it was grown hydroponically, a cultivation method that
increases its potency. But when the bag of marijuana was displayed in the
court, it was clear it was made up of buds the size of bananas, which
emitted a powerful smell whenever the plastic bag was opened.

While marijuana in the 1970s had THC (active ingredient) levels of around 1
to 2 per cent, today's hydroponic marijuana often has THC levels of 15 per
cent, higher than a lot of hashish.

The Balinese drug dealer, who would not be named, said that while there was
a lot of marijuana for sale, "it's hard for foreigners to get access to it"
because they were fearful of getting caught. "It's safer for foreigners to
bring their own. It's been happening for quite some time and it's not only
marijuana."

May 31, 2005, 12:34 am	#35 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, the court mucked up her trial. The burden of proof was effectively reversed. I don't know. Maybe that's Indonesian law. But it's certainly an unfair law if that's permitted. The 'motive' argument however may not help Corby much. Consider this report from Matthew Moore of The Sydney Morning Herald: "Perhaps the most compelling reason so many Australians believe Schapelle Corby is innocent is the "coals to Newcastle" argument: why would anyone smuggle marijuana to Bali when everyone knows it's so easy to get there? While drugs might seem freely available on the streets, the foreigners who live in Bali, including those serving time in Kerobokan jail, say that buying them is a very risky business because you never know if the seller is an undercover police officer or a police informer. For that reason, westerners in Bali are prepared to pay premium prices for marijuana if they can get it from other Westerners, as that's the best way to ensure they are not going to be trapped and arrested. According to four sources in Bali contacted by The Age, including one former and one current drug dealer, high-quality Australian marijuana, similar in appearance to that found in Schapelle Corby's luggage, has been sold on a limited basis in Bali for years, but only to Westerners. One European man, now serving a jail term for possessing hashish, said he knows of several Australians who have been bringing strong hydroponic marijuana into Bali. He said it brings "really good money", getting a price around 50 per cent higher than the Nepalese hashish that is more widely available for around $A16 a gram on the streets. He said the marijuana was stronger than hashish, which is produced from the same plant and has the same active constituents. "You just can't move, it's like (being) brain dead," he said of its effect. An Australian who says he's lived in Bali for 15 years contacted The Age several times to say his children were frequently offered marijuana called "Aussie gold". The man, who refused to give his name, said the "hydroponic bud" smuggled from Australia sells for $A600 an ounce (about $A21 a gram) or as much as $A20,000 a kilogram. Top quality marijuana in Australia sells for around $8000 a kilogram, although more when broken into "deals". A Balinese drug dealer who has spent time in jail said he had smoked the Australian "skunk" many times with friends from Italy, Germany and Australia but had never bought or sold any. He recognised the marijuana as Australian as it was made up of large flowers or buds, while the marijuana he sells from Aceh in north Sumatra or from Malang in East Java has much smaller buds and a lot of leaf mixed in. Despite requests from Corby's lawyers, Indonesian police did not test the marijuana in her bag to find out where it was grown or its strength, and it is not certain it was grown hydroponically, a cultivation method that increases its potency. But when the bag of marijuana was displayed in the court, it was clear it was made up of buds the size of bananas, which emitted a powerful smell whenever the plastic bag was opened. While marijuana in the 1970s had THC (active ingredient) levels of around 1 to 2 per cent, today's hydroponic marijuana often has THC levels of 15 per cent, higher than a lot of hashish. The Balinese drug dealer, who would not be named, said that while there was a lot of marijuana for sale, "it's hard for foreigners to get access to it" because they were fearful of getting caught. "It's safer for foreigners to bring their own. It's been happening for quite some time and it's not only marijuana." Last edited by tinybear; May 31, 2005 at 12:43 am.

May 28, 2005, 02:07 pm	#22 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	They're appealing her sentence you know. The Indonesian High Court could still send her to the firing squad.

May 28, 2005, 03:17 pm	#23 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	And you're still missing the point entirely. Although, I'll give you that a firing squad would initially be much more cost effective. In the long run, however, I think they'd lose a lot of AUS tourists.

May 28, 2005, 03:30 pm	#24 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	You think? Bali's their favorite holiday destination. They won't stay away for long.

May 28, 2005, 03:37 pm	#25 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Interestingly enough, AUS itself is a favorite holiday destination of the US. Surely the AUS people have no reason to go abroad.

May 28, 2005, 03:41 pm	#26 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	The opulence of Bali's resort hotels and their impeccable service surpass that of the best Hawaii has to offer and certainly anything that Australia has to offer and at half the price too. Nah, the Aussies won't stay away for long. Hey, they stayed away immediately after that bombing incident. But less than a year later they were back in droves.

May 28, 2005, 03:47 pm	#27 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Ok fine, they won't stay away. Still, the Indonesians could make a net gain by assessing her a fine and sending her home (as well as not losing the immediate money from AUS tourists not coming). Simply killing her would still result in a net loss.

May 28, 2005, 03:50 pm	#28 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	Geez, you sound as if you think the legal system should be run like a commercial enterprise.

May 28, 2005, 03:58 pm	#30 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	But, but...she wuz framed.

May 29, 2005, 03:21 pm	#33 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 7,333	Quite scary when you come to think of it. Nowadays you're not even allowed to lock up your luggage when it's being checked-in.

May 31, 2005, 12:14 am	#34 (permalink) (top)
cybacaT Sedimentary Rock Posts: 3	There are several things that epitomise Australia - we like to look after the underpriviliged, we like to have a good time, and we like to make sure everyone has "a fair go" - meaning a fair chance at life. We saw this after the tsunami that struck SE Asia - there was a great outpouring of compassion from Australia for those who were in need and suffering. Australia's compassion exceeded $1billion - not something we'd trumpet about in other circumstances, but an indication of where we're coming from. We see in the Corby case that she wasn't given "a fair go". Guilt or Innocence is yet to be proven in my opinion - the only certainty is that she wasn't given a fair trial. The judge went out on a limb, contradicting Indonesian law by insisting that Corby herself needed to identify whose drugs they were. If planted at an airport, how could she possibly know? That's a totally unreasonable expectation. The judge took the word of customs officials as gospel, yet disregarded the views of Corby's travelling companions. Worst of all, he ignored the most compelling evidence of all - LACK OF MOTIVE! Why the hell would anyone take marijuana that costs 100 times more to buy in Australia, to a place like Indonesia where it's a fraction of the price? It makes no sense whatsoever! Yet this most important of points was dismissed in the judges angry ranting during his verdict. Australians are uniting now to show another side - we look after our own. Bali is off the list of holiday destinations for many, and we are now looking carefully at where goods are made. We won't buy goods made in Indonesia, and we won't visit there for holidays. This may be the best way to get our message across that Indonesia needs to join the 21st century and upgrade it's legal system to one that is fair. Until then Indonesia will feel the backlash.