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tinybear · May 25, 2005, 12:31 pm

But how many whales are needed for this "research"? And what is this "research" about anyway?

Hands up those of you who believe Japan. :rolleyes:

http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/s.../GE25Wd05.html

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 12:34 pm

Whales are a renewable resource.

Provided that they're allowed to maintain a steady population, I say harpoons away.

tinybear · May 25, 2005, 12:37 pm

If they're renewable, there would not be such a fuss, would there? I don't see any fuss being kicked up about the killing of chickens.

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 12:52 pm

Are you saying they're not renewable?

Last I checked whales were able to reproduce.

The fuss is because their population is low. But as long as it stays steady, who cares at what level their population is?

tinybear · May 25, 2005, 12:58 pm

OK, you got me there. Let's start killing them pandas. They look fat and delicious!

**Pooeypants** · May 25, 2005, 01:02 pm

We have severely depleted the marine stock of many seas and oceans around us, this is no joking matter.
I think a firmer stance has to be taken on this issue, glad to see at least the Australian PM is making a move.

CallousGiant · May 25, 2005, 01:06 pm

Norway (I think) hunts whales ignore the ban on them....

The reason people kick up a fuss about them is that their populations are much smaller than chickens, they take much longer to have offspring and they are considered 'gentle giants' which are a fairly intelligent species.

I think there should definately be a restriction on the amount allowed to be hunted but I don't see why it should be banned completely.

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 01:14 pm

I'll repeat the only logical position on this matter: as long as the population of speices stays steady, there is no reason not to harvest them if they provide a good that is in demand.

If the population is declining and vectoring toward extinction, then I agree that harvesting should be limited or stoped until the population stabilizes.

tinybear · May 25, 2005, 01:18 pm

I think the population is declining right now. Hence the moratorium on whale hunting.

But let's consider the other question raised: do you believe the Japanese when they say they're only killing whales for research? Or do you think they're lying/exploiting a loophole?

**Pooeypants** · May 25, 2005, 01:19 pm

Stability is hard to achieve when you inject humans into the equation.

Anyway, read this if you're pondering about Whale numbers.

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 01:25 pm

Mathematical models using logistic differential equations predict that in presense of a constatn rate of harvesting, a species's population will either go extinct or reach a steady level.

So as long as we're harvesting at a constant rate and the whales's population isn't vectoring toward extinction, they'll stablize.

As for the thread question: we have no right to tell any country what they can or can't do on their own land.

tinybear · May 25, 2005, 01:27 pm

So if China begins killing pandas for their fur and for food, we'll not say anything, shall we?

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 01:35 pm

We have no right to say anything. But I image many people wouldn't be able to control themselves because of anger.

CallousGiant · May 25, 2005, 01:41 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tman_ndsu08

We have no right to say anything. But I image many people wouldn't be able to control themselves because of anger.

No...we have a right to speak but not to act. We can still condemn it...

**Pooeypants** · May 25, 2005, 01:42 pm

Wait, we have no right to freedom of speech? I didn't know that there was a worldwide speech repression act, when did this occur?

tman_ndsu08 · May 25, 2005, 02:15 pm

Well, I don't believe anyone has any right to anything, but that's on a different thread.

What I should've say is that we have no right to tell them what they can't do on their own land. That's what I meant when I said we have no right to say anything.

Prometheus · May 25, 2005, 02:47 pm

Quote:

Quote by: tinybear

So if China begins killing pandas for their fur and for food, we'll not say anything, shall we?

last I checked, those pandas live in chinah, which means we have no jurisdiction. We have plenty of pandas on zooz here. We need to stop telling other countries what to do with their animals. And on second thought - who cares? The only panda you will likely see will be in the zoo anyway.

May 25, 2005, 12:31 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	Japan Insists On Killing Whales For "Research" But how many whales are needed for this "research"? And what is this "research" about anyway? Hands up those of you who believe Japan. :rolleyes: http://www.thestandard.com.hk/stdn/s.../GE25Wd05.html

May 25, 2005, 01:02 pm	#6 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,541	We have severely depleted the marine stock of many seas and oceans around us, this is no joking matter. I think a firmer stance has to be taken on this issue, glad to see at least the Australian PM is making a move. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

May 25, 2005, 01:19 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,541	Stability is hard to achieve when you inject humans into the equation. Anyway, read this if you're pondering about Whale numbers. War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

May 25, 2005, 01:42 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Pooeypants Neo Moderator Location: England Posts: 5,541	Wait, we have no right to freedom of speech? I didn't know that there was a worldwide speech repression act, when did this occur? War is Peace Freedom is Slavery Ignorance is strength Harness the power of Ingsoc, then you can capture someone killed the year before

May 25, 2005, 12:34 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Whales are a renewable resource. Provided that they're allowed to maintain a steady population, I say harpoons away.

May 25, 2005, 12:37 pm	#3 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	If they're renewable, there would not be such a fuss, would there? I don't see any fuss being kicked up about the killing of chickens.

May 25, 2005, 12:52 pm	#4 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Are you saying they're not renewable? Last I checked whales were able to reproduce. The fuss is because their population is low. But as long as it stays steady, who cares at what level their population is?

May 25, 2005, 12:58 pm	#5 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	OK, you got me there. Let's start killing them pandas. They look fat and delicious!

May 25, 2005, 01:06 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
CallousGiant Hot Thosages Posts: 125	Norway (I think) hunts whales ignore the ban on them.... The reason people kick up a fuss about them is that their populations are much smaller than chickens, they take much longer to have offspring and they are considered 'gentle giants' which are a fairly intelligent species. I think there should definately be a restriction on the amount allowed to be hunted but I don't see why it should be banned completely.

May 25, 2005, 01:14 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	I'll repeat the only logical position on this matter: as long as the population of speices stays steady, there is no reason not to harvest them if they provide a good that is in demand. If the population is declining and vectoring toward extinction, then I agree that harvesting should be limited or stoped until the population stabilizes.

May 25, 2005, 01:18 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	I think the population is declining right now. Hence the moratorium on whale hunting. But let's consider the other question raised: do you believe the Japanese when they say they're only killing whales for research? Or do you think they're lying/exploiting a loophole?

May 25, 2005, 01:25 pm	#11 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Mathematical models using logistic differential equations predict that in presense of a constatn rate of harvesting, a species's population will either go extinct or reach a steady level. So as long as we're harvesting at a constant rate and the whales's population isn't vectoring toward extinction, they'll stablize. As for the thread question: we have no right to tell any country what they can or can't do on their own land.

May 25, 2005, 01:27 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
tinybear Volcanic Erupter Location: Hong Kong (for now) Posts: 7,002	So if China begins killing pandas for their fur and for food, we'll not say anything, shall we?

May 25, 2005, 01:35 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	We have no right to say anything. But I image many people wouldn't be able to control themselves because of anger.

May 25, 2005, 02:15 pm	#16 (permalink) (top)
tman_ndsu08 BANNED Posts: 5,021	Well, I don't believe anyone has any right to anything, but that's on a different thread. What I should've say is that we have no right to tell them what they can't do on their own land. That's what I meant when I said we have no right to say anything.