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Doug · May 20, 2005, 05:01 pm

Have you 'changed sides' politically?

This is a thread for people who have changed their political orientations substantially during their lives. For example, for people who now consider themselves conservatives, but who once were liberals. Or for liberals, who began as conservatives.

My question for you is: what, in your opinion, made you change?

Some particular experience? (There is an old saying, that a conservative is a liberal who was mugged. On the other side, I have a friend who was the national chairman of his country’s Young Conservatives, but who became involved in anti-apartheid activities, and was radicalized by that.)

Some change in your life situation? (Another old saying is that a conservative is a liberal with a mortgage. Or with a daughter in high school.)

Or some extended exposure to a different way of thinking? (Many young people who come from conservative homes become liberals after attending college.

Or something else?

So … if you switched, why did you do it?

castille · May 23, 2005, 10:02 am

I think everyone promotes an ideology out of selfish reasons. The wealthy businessman might be conservative because he has to pay lots of taxes, while the college fratboy might be liberal because he gets all his money from mom and dad.

I've rarely, if ever, seen people take an active ideological stance which runs counter to their interests.

Morgan_Freeman · Jun 16, 2005, 06:25 am

My experience working for the Federal government schooled me on the nature of bureaucracy.
I swore never to work for the Feds again. And now I know that whenever the Pentagon claims they need more funding, they're full of shit.

RickSp · Jun 16, 2005, 08:35 am

I remember exactly when I started calling myself a libertarian. It was over thirty years ago, during the Nixon/McGovern race. I was opposed to the Vietnam War but though McGovern was a disaster. I saw a bumper siticker that said simply "Tin Soldiers and Nixon Coming", the first line from the Crosby, Still & Nash song, Ohio, about Kent State.

On the other side of the world young Americans were dying in an evil war and in Ohio the National Guard was cutting down students who dared protest against that war. I knew then that I couldn't support "the powers that be" any more. We needed and we still need a new revolution.

Doug · Jun 30, 2005, 08:03 am

Anyone else? I've posted this question on a number of Boards and in a few weeks I hope to summarize the replies.

Doug

Autolykos · Jun 30, 2005, 08:28 am

I used to be (believe it or not) a hardcore Republican/Bush-supporter. Then the Iraq debacle began. At first I supported it, but at the time I was studying Austrian-school economics in my spare time. Doing that led me to LewRockwell.com, and I started reading articles against the Iraq situation. These articles showed me that the Bush administration's justifications for action against Iraq were full of holes, to put it mildly. As a result, I could not have any faith in Bush anymore, nor in the Republicans who backed him. Plus, I had been a Republican because I felt it was the party of less government, lower taxes and regulation, and more freedom. The past few years, however, have seen a drastic turnaround in what the Republican party stands for (in actions, not words). So, in a way, one could say that I didn't really leave the Republican party -- it left me.

- Rob

Whodoe! · Jun 30, 2005, 09:36 am

I entered college an ideological blank (aside from what I had seen to be massive evidence of religious hypocrisy) and immediately encountered an onslaught of revisionist history. This is the version where the USA is the greatest evil influence on earth. It was taught almost with a nudge and a wink like it was the inside dope and thus highly privileged information emanating directly from the intellectual elite (before that was a bad term).

I believed it completely (because teachers were infallible authority figures to me) and subjected my friends and family to endless speeches on the need for us to apologize, surrender power to the wronged (basically everyone except us) and devote our lives the altruistic pursuit of spreading this message. I should add that we were Democrats and mostly experienced a low income.

Then Ronald Reagan entered the scene and delivered a completely different message. As an exercise, I was assigned to debate in favor of Reagan. I starting doing research to support my position for the debate. Suddenly, I starting seeing yet another revision of the truth. In this version, teachers had to get published to gain tenure and they were slanting viewpoints to get published.

After that, I viewed teachers with suspicion and confirmed their rants before believing them. For the most part, they were promoting socialism and in many cases reading directly from Marxist communism. I did some more research and discovered that following socialism or communism was not in line with my life goals. In fact, these belief systems were exactly contrary to mine. There are ideological holes here with regard to the religious right, taxation, drug wars, health care, social security and the control of security threats.

That’s my story of why I went from a liberal to a conservative (and later joined the Republican Party and became an elected official). My more recent and simply defiant decision to become a Libertarian is probably more information than you need for your study. I hope this helps and was not too convoluted.

Technosoul · Jun 30, 2005, 09:45 am

Doug - hope you let us know the results of your inquiry

After seeing a Disney movie called "the living desert" I became interested in nature and spent my summer vacation hanging out at the Musem of Natural History in L.A. (high school), where I studied evolution, anicent cultures, and took part in some of the logcal digs here in Ca. The Democrats seemed the best party for me because they were more into the preservation of wildlife areas then the Republicans.

However the week after 9-11, when President Bush gave his famious Hard Hat Speech, I switched sides, and supported Bush 100 percent. (in spite of the fact I had protested the election manipulation). He seemed to be the perfect guy for that moment in our history. But then he blew it and begot the Iraq war and so I switched back to my democratic roots - but then the deomcratic party blew it by going along with the deception in spite of massive coverage by liberal news sources that did not support the Iraq war.

So now I have no party to belong too. The republicans and democrats have basically become the same united team. And outside looking in the liberals are still living back in the 1960s and spend all their energy stereotyping white people as the "old boy network of bad guys" - getting tired of that old worn out philosophy.

So I changed my mind - I don't like any of them anymore. I don't want to belong to anything.

fedfem · Jun 30, 2005, 10:15 am

My politics locally are different than my politics nationally. I used to be a "rabid republican" across the board.lol

My politics are more libertarian or moderate since the mid 90s.

Doug · Jul 3, 2005, 10:16 am

Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread so far.
Autolykos: your political wrestling is not at all unique to you; when I post the results of my survey, which I shall, you will be surprised at how many people who responded to my survey made the same transition you did.
Whodoe!; I for one would be very interested to hear why you made your act of defiance and became a Libertarian.
Technosoul: I suspect you're not alone in being alienated from the two major parties -- the Perot vote showed that, even before the current war.
Fedfem: was it some particular events, or just greater exposure to life, or what, that made you more 'libertarian/moderate' since the mid-90s.

Look for my results in about six weeks.

Doug

mr.perfecto · Jul 4, 2005, 02:50 am

I'm assuming your still checking up on this...

I grew up in Alabama and I lived fairly close to the major population centers in the state. Birmingham, Montgomery, and Mobile. Mostly in smaller communities 10-20 minutes out of town. Most of my family and neighbors were usually liberal Democrats and during that time period I would have been too, if I could have voted. (The way that is written, it sounds like I'm talking about a time 50-60 years ago. I'm not. I'm only talking about the late eightys/early ninetys.) Living in AL, I was under the impression that Democrats were good, Christian people who were concerned about defending our communites against those out to harm it: dishonest corporations, out of control police officers, drug dealers, and the old, misognyist, racist, corrupt, rich elites who wanted to defund education and youth programs and abandon America's youth to minimum wage jobs or street gangs. In a word: Republicans.

My thinking started to shift about 6 or 7 years ago while I was in high school. The classes I was taking were considered advanced for my grade level (although the information in them weren't by any means difficult to understand). My teachers were constantly preaching about personal responsibility and how the students that had self-control and thought beyond tomorrow would be more successful in life that those who didn't. All of my teachers were like that whether they were Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative.

But the ones that had the biggest effect on me were a conservative Democrat--my history teacher, and a conservative Republican--the JROTC instructor. The first day I met the history teacher, he handed me a BIG textbook and a list of things to memorize over summer break because we would have a test on them the first day of the next school year. During class, we would have an exam on the things that were in the book, or he'd answer questions about those things, then we'd spend the rest of the time discussing mostly current events. The JROTC instructor was even stricter and, because the tasks where more often dangerous (You want me to jump out of what?!?!), being successful in the class was even more rewarding.

Being a conservative is about taking and accepting responsibility for your own actions. Aside from a one month adventure as a libertarian (I'm fairly embarrassed it took me that long to spot the flaws in libertarianism), I haven't found a convincing arguement against conservatism.

Savant · Jul 4, 2005, 03:58 am

After listening to (idiotic) conservative radio for years, and then to (idiotic) liberal radio for months, I've decided both the labels "conservative" and "liberal" are absolutely meaningless, and folks who are sucked into this imaginary adversarial groupthink are idiots.

Admitedly I was once just such an idiot.

PatrickHenry · Jul 4, 2005, 04:12 am

I have been through the washing machine, the wringer and hung out to dry! I grew up in a Baptist, Republican family in the Jim Crow South. Thought that Kennedy was the Anti-christ or something when he took office. I was ten years of age.

By the mid sixties, I had begun to see the cracks in the racist dogma of that era. Turned away from mainstream America in 1968 after the police riot against the protestors at the Democratic Convention in Chicago. Horrified by the slayings of Bobby and MLK that year, I was a college student at a big university. I grew my hair long, smoked dope, dropped acid, protested war, went barefoot. I was a hippie leftist. But more concerned with social relationships and fun than politics. However, I did try to attend a Wallace rally with a sign reading "George Loves Adolf!" Cops turned me away, heh. Good thing , I woulda got my ass whipped. Not able to vote, being only 18 in those pre-26th Amendment days.

Graduated with a BS degree in 1971, got a job where I needed to keep my hair cut and wear polyester. I was a houseparent in youth corrections. Voted for McGovern in 72 and rejoiced when Nixon got his rear in a crack. Still don't think Ford shoulda ever been President because Agnew was off to the courthouse and McGovern got the second highest number of votes. Ford stuck his foot in the door and allowed the snake, Nixon to escape without consequences. Ford shoulda been tried for obstruction of justice.

Nixon dropped the national speed limit to 55, allegedly to save gas. This was just as I was completing a truck-driving course for a trade that paid by the mile. My future income was sawed off by 22% right there. Man, was I pissed off.

Eventually I found myself working in construction. But wages in Houston were lousy because the unions had no power and there were so many undocumented immigrants that it depressed everyone's pay. After a few years I moved to California, where I joined a union and started making some good money in the carpentry trade. But seeing Union politics from the inside wasn't a pretty picture. The old guard were elitists, without much sympathy for the working guy. They just used us to line their own pockets. The union guys I really liked were actually underground Commies.

Meanwhile the US had gotten involved in the bloodletting in Central America. I hated Reagan from the first time I ever saw him speak. Still stuck to being a Democrat, because what else was there? I remember marching with my Commie buddies through downtown LA: "CIA! Out of Nicaragua!" I had also started going to an evangelical church that had an outreach to the Salvadoran refugees. I heard their stories firsthand, and realized that the US was in the grip of something powerful that I didn't understand. I rejoiced again when the Iran-contra affair began to unravel. I still remember the story of Eugene Hasenfus hitting the news. But then the congressional committees whitewashed the whole thing. A few flunkies got their hands slapped, but Ollie North got away with treason in uniform.

Couldn't get it through my head that the Democrats and Republicans weren't really opposed to each other. When I moved to Hawaii in 87, I began to realize that the Democratic Establishment here is the same as the entrenched Republicans in the mainland. Still, I supported WJ Clinton's candidacy and celebrated his election in 92 with a bottle of wine. He let me down in the first thirty days, with his gays in the military policy. Then he showed where he was really coming from by signing NAFTA and GATT. A stealth Republican. Finally I looked into the Green Party in Hawaii. Our county council had just had their first Green member elected. I was hopeful it was the beginning of something that could bring real change, and served on the five-member board for the County Party for a couple of years. But there was too much socialist rhetoric and personal wrangling, and I eventually dropped out, disillusioned. Supported Nader in 96 and 2000.

The Florida recount and the Supremes decision made it clear to me that tyranny was afoot.

September 11, 2001 was a shock. For about six months, I didn't know what to make of it. I wrote to Bush urging restraint, but he started bombing the poor Afghans anyhow. I began to read all I could, trying to understand. Read Taliban, by Ahmed Rashid, and started to get the idea it was about oil. When I saw Alex Jones video, 9/11, the Road to Tyranny, and read some underground stuff about Project Bojinka, I knew we had been had as a nation. My descent into conpiracy research led deeper and deeper.

Well, you folks don't want to hear about that, but in the 2004 election cycle, I supported the Constitution Party's candidate, Michael Peroutka. I don't agree with everything that party stands for, but it is slightly closer to my own Christian, constitutionalist views than the Libertarian Party's. But I could easily be a Libertarian, too. My brother and my sister are.

Maybe the biggest shock I ever had in my investigations was the discovery that the US has been ruled under a Declared State of Emergency since 1933. Still can't get many people to look at it. Most folks think this Republic can't die. I think it's probably in a state of rigor mortis already. Somehow I am able to keep hope alive in my soul. I think that there is a good-heartedness, a generosity of spirit that may somehow keep the USA from slipping over the edge into full-fledged tyranny. I am hangin' in there. Hope I am not wrong.

oranged · Jul 4, 2005, 08:43 am

Quote:

Quote by: castille

I think everyone promotes an ideology out of selfish reasons. The wealthy businessman might be conservative because he has to pay lots of taxes, while the college fratboy might be liberal because he gets all his money from mom and dad.

I've rarely, if ever, seen people take an active ideological stance which runs counter to their interests.

What about brainwashed rednecks in the midwest, who vote for Bush, get their jobs outsourced, and get laid off?

GodBlessAmerica · Aug 27, 2005, 04:18 am

[quote=Doug]Have you 'changed sides' politically?

My question for you is: what, in your opinion, made you change?

I was a Democrat as were most of the immediate family, but we all switched to Republican conservatives.
We felt the party simply left us and went completely to the left.
We also had first hand knowledge of union corruption with connections to the mafia and were also disgusted by them and their input into national politics for the Democrat and Communist parties.

Savant · Aug 27, 2005, 11:32 am

doodeedooodoo doodeedoodoo

(how do you spell the themesong to the twilight zone?)

**Chris** · Aug 27, 2005, 11:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: Doug

what, in your opinion, made you change?

Vitriolic talk radio types like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Conservatives in general that I spoke with who were just toting the party line. This made me sick. The Iraq war and also Bush's handling of the war and the lies about the war.

Some particular experience?Like I said, dumbasses like Rush limbaugh. The kool aid drinkers etc. And a group of conservatives who singled me out for my opinions on certain things. I have long since shifted from the far right. I was a centrist really. But I find myself more and more agreeing with Democratic policies. I used to be just like Mr. V and GBA. But I like to think I smartened up.

Some change in your life situation?Talking with co workers. Getting an overall feel of other people. Conservatives for the most part believe in American Exceptionalism and how "This is the greatest goddamm country in the whole godddamm world you motherfucker!" When in reality it is not.

Or some extended exposure to a different way of thinking? No
Or something else?No

Quote:

So … if you switched, why did you do it?

Really it is an opening of my mind. Neo cons are close minded fools. It only takes a few glances at the right wing blogosphere and these boards to discover this. I became more aware. More aware internationally and also aware of other cultures. Aware of the root of modern day American problems.

belverron · Aug 27, 2005, 12:58 pm

I called myself liberal until I realized that being anti-Republican isn't the same thing. Now I don't know what I believe.

Mark A Shrider · Aug 27, 2005, 03:52 pm

"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under the name Liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until America will one day be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened."
-Norman Thomas, 6-time presidential candidate of the Socialist Party who retired from politics when Democrat Franklin Roosevelt ran on the same platform and won.

---There is a quote that goes something like this: "If you are not liberal when you are 20 you have no heart; if you're not conservative by the time you are 30 you have no brains."---

From that quote I have adapted my own: "I was liberal, but then I grew up."

These quotes pretty much explain why I have changed my political leaning. Although, I still can't bring myself to join a political party.

Clarence · Aug 30, 2005, 05:05 am

Mark A Shrider could be my dad. I call myself open minded. Everybody is pickin sides right now. Like there's gonna be a big stuggle or something. Nothing represents me. Every point of view is dominated by the extreme end of that opinion. Unreasonable, irrational people like myself are running the world. I like this thread, though. I like what you're doing here.

May 20, 2005, 05:01 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
Doug " " Location: near Guildford, England Posts: 47	Question for ex-liberals, or ex-conservatives. Have you 'changed sides' politically? This is a thread for people who have changed their political orientations substantially during their lives. For example, for people who now consider themselves conservatives, but who once were liberals. Or for liberals, who began as conservatives. My question for you is: what, in your opinion, made you change? Some particular experience? (There is an old saying, that a conservative is a liberal who was mugged. On the other side, I have a friend who was the national chairman of his country’s Young Conservatives, but who became involved in anti-apartheid activities, and was radicalized by that.) Some change in your life situation? (Another old saying is that a conservative is a liberal with a mortgage. Or with a daughter in high school.) Or some extended exposure to a different way of thinking? (Many young people who come from conservative homes become liberals after attending college. Or something else? So … if you switched, why did you do it? Last edited by Doug; May 20, 2005 at 05:03 pm.

May 23, 2005, 10:02 am	#2 (permalink) (top)
castille Citizen #21521 Posts: 2,599	I think everyone promotes an ideology out of selfish reasons. The wealthy businessman might be conservative because he has to pay lots of taxes, while the college fratboy might be liberal because he gets all his money from mom and dad. I've rarely, if ever, seen people take an active ideological stance which runs counter to their interests. Ideological loyalty is the act of giving your soul to a vague concept, to be manipulated by people smarter than you.

Jun 16, 2005, 06:25 am	#3 (permalink) (top)
Morgan_Freeman Illogic Hunter Location: Seattle Posts: 2,385	My experience working for the Federal government schooled me on the nature of bureaucracy. I swore never to work for the Feds again. And now I know that whenever the Pentagon claims they need more funding, they're full of shit. "A republic, if you can keep it." -- Benjamin Franklin Free State Project freestateproject.org

Jun 16, 2005, 08:35 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
RickSp Volcanic Erupter Posts: 9,491	I remember exactly when I started calling myself a libertarian. It was over thirty years ago, during the Nixon/McGovern race. I was opposed to the Vietnam War but though McGovern was a disaster. I saw a bumper siticker that said simply "Tin Soldiers and Nixon Coming", the first line from the Crosby, Still & Nash song, Ohio, about Kent State. On the other side of the world young Americans were dying in an evil war and in Ohio the National Guard was cutting down students who dared protest against that war. I knew then that I couldn't support "the powers that be" any more. We needed and we still need a new revolution. Rick "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." Sinclair Lewis

Jul 4, 2005, 03:58 am	#12 (permalink) (top)
Savant The Electric Messiah Location: California Posts: 145	After listening to (idiotic) conservative radio for years, and then to (idiotic) liberal radio for months, I've decided both the labels "conservative" and "liberal" are absolutely meaningless, and folks who are sucked into this imaginary adversarial groupthink are idiots. Admitedly I was once just such an idiot. Economic Left/Right: -3.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72 Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain. J. K. Rowling

Jun 30, 2005, 08:03 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Doug " " Location: near Guildford, England Posts: 47	Anyone else? I've posted this question on a number of Boards and in a few weeks I hope to summarize the replies. Doug

Jun 30, 2005, 08:28 am	#6 (permalink) (top)
Autolykos Logical Phallussy Location: In your internets. Posts: 2,991	I used to be (believe it or not) a hardcore Republican/Bush-supporter. Then the Iraq debacle began. At first I supported it, but at the time I was studying Austrian-school economics in my spare time. Doing that led me to LewRockwell.com, and I started reading articles against the Iraq situation. These articles showed me that the Bush administration's justifications for action against Iraq were full of holes, to put it mildly. As a result, I could not have any faith in Bush anymore, nor in the Republicans who backed him. Plus, I had been a Republican because I felt it was the party of less government, lower taxes and regulation, and more freedom. The past few years, however, have seen a drastic turnaround in what the Republican party stands for (in actions, not words). So, in a way, one could say that I didn't really leave the Republican party -- it left me. - Rob

Jun 30, 2005, 09:36 am	#7 (permalink) (top)
Whodoe! Igneous Magma Posts: 192	I entered college an ideological blank (aside from what I had seen to be massive evidence of religious hypocrisy) and immediately encountered an onslaught of revisionist history. This is the version where the USA is the greatest evil influence on earth. It was taught almost with a nudge and a wink like it was the inside dope and thus highly privileged information emanating directly from the intellectual elite (before that was a bad term). I believed it completely (because teachers were infallible authority figures to me) and subjected my friends and family to endless speeches on the need for us to apologize, surrender power to the wronged (basically everyone except us) and devote our lives the altruistic pursuit of spreading this message. I should add that we were Democrats and mostly experienced a low income. Then Ronald Reagan entered the scene and delivered a completely different message. As an exercise, I was assigned to debate in favor of Reagan. I starting doing research to support my position for the debate. Suddenly, I starting seeing yet another revision of the truth. In this version, teachers had to get published to gain tenure and they were slanting viewpoints to get published. After that, I viewed teachers with suspicion and confirmed their rants before believing them. For the most part, they were promoting socialism and in many cases reading directly from Marxist communism. I did some more research and discovered that following socialism or communism was not in line with my life goals. In fact, these belief systems were exactly contrary to mine. There are ideological holes here with regard to the religious right, taxation, drug wars, health care, social security and the control of security threats. That’s my story of why I went from a liberal to a conservative (and later joined the Republican Party and became an elected official). My more recent and simply defiant decision to become a Libertarian is probably more information than you need for your study. I hope this helps and was not too convoluted.

Jun 30, 2005, 09:45 am	#8 (permalink) (top)
Technosoul Volcanic Erupter Posts: 8,663	Doug - hope you let us know the results of your inquiry After seeing a Disney movie called "the living desert" I became interested in nature and spent my summer vacation hanging out at the Musem of Natural History in L.A. (high school), where I studied evolution, anicent cultures, and took part in some of the logcal digs here in Ca. The Democrats seemed the best party for me because they were more into the preservation of wildlife areas then the Republicans. However the week after 9-11, when President Bush gave his famious Hard Hat Speech, I switched sides, and supported Bush 100 percent. (in spite of the fact I had protested the election manipulation). He seemed to be the perfect guy for that moment in our history. But then he blew it and begot the Iraq war and so I switched back to my democratic roots - but then the deomcratic party blew it by going along with the deception in spite of massive coverage by liberal news sources that did not support the Iraq war. So now I have no party to belong too. The republicans and democrats have basically become the same united team. And outside looking in the liberals are still living back in the 1960s and spend all their energy stereotyping white people as the "old boy network of bad guys" - getting tired of that old worn out philosophy. So I changed my mind - I don't like any of them anymore. I don't want to belong to anything.

Jun 30, 2005, 10:15 am	#9 (permalink) (top)
fedfem Igneous Magma Location: Northeastern, USA Posts: 606	My politics locally are different than my politics nationally. I used to be a "rabid republican" across the board.lol My politics are more libertarian or moderate since the mid 90s.

Jul 3, 2005, 10:16 am	#10 (permalink) (top)
Doug " " Location: near Guildford, England Posts: 47	Thanks to everyone who has posted on this thread so far. Autolykos: your political wrestling is not at all unique to you; when I post the results of my survey, which I shall, you will be surprised at how many people who responded to my survey made the same transition you did. Whodoe!; I for one would be very interested to hear why you made your act of defiance and became a Libertarian. Technosoul: I suspect you're not alone in being alienated from the two major parties -- the Perot vote showed that, even before the current war. Fedfem: was it some particular events, or just greater exposure to life, or what, that made you more 'libertarian/moderate' since the mid-90s. Look for my results in about six weeks. Doug

Jul 4, 2005, 02:50 am	#11 (permalink) (top)
mr.perfecto Igneous Magma Posts: 632	I'm assuming your still checking up on this... I grew up in Alabama and I lived fairly close to the major population centers in the state. Birmingham, Montgomery, and Mobile. Mostly in smaller communities 10-20 minutes out of town. Most of my family and neighbors were usually liberal Democrats and during that time period I would have been too, if I could have voted. (The way that is written, it sounds like I'm talking about a time 50-60 years ago. I'm not. I'm only talking about the late eightys/early ninetys.) Living in AL, I was under the impression that Democrats were good, Christian people who were concerned about defending our communites against those out to harm it: dishonest corporations, out of control police officers, drug dealers, and the old, misognyist, racist, corrupt, rich elites who wanted to defund education and youth programs and abandon America's youth to minimum wage jobs or street gangs. In a word: Republicans. My thinking started to shift about 6 or 7 years ago while I was in high school. The classes I was taking were considered advanced for my grade level (although the information in them weren't by any means difficult to understand). My teachers were constantly preaching about personal responsibility and how the students that had self-control and thought beyond tomorrow would be more successful in life that those who didn't. All of my teachers were like that whether they were Democrat or Republican, liberal or conservative. But the ones that had the biggest effect on me were a conservative Democrat--my history teacher, and a conservative Republican--the JROTC instructor. The first day I met the history teacher, he handed me a BIG textbook and a list of things to memorize over summer break because we would have a test on them the first day of the next school year. During class, we would have an exam on the things that were in the book, or he'd answer questions about those things, then we'd spend the rest of the time discussing mostly current events. The JROTC instructor was even stricter and, because the tasks where more often dangerous (You want me to jump out of what?!?!), being successful in the class was even more rewarding. Being a conservative is about taking and accepting responsibility for your own actions. Aside from a one month adventure as a libertarian (I'm fairly embarrassed it took me that long to spot the flaws in libertarianism), I haven't found a convincing arguement against conservatism.

Jul 4, 2005, 04:12 am	#13 (permalink) (top)
PatrickHenry 9/11: Inside Job Location: Hawai'i, Big Island Posts: 10,437	I have been through the washing machine, the wringer and hung out to dry! I grew up in a Baptist, Republican family in the Jim Crow South. Thought that Kennedy was the Anti-christ or something when he took office. I was ten years of age. By the mid sixties, I had begun to see the cracks in the racist dogma of that era. Turned away from mainstream America in 1968 after the police riot against the protestors at the Democratic Convention in Chicago. Horrified by the slayings of Bobby and MLK that year, I was a college student at a big university. I grew my hair long, smoked dope, dropped acid, protested war, went barefoot. I was a hippie leftist. But more concerned with social relationships and fun than politics. However, I did try to attend a Wallace rally with a sign reading "George Loves Adolf!" Cops turned me away, heh. Good thing , I woulda got my ass whipped. Not able to vote, being only 18 in those pre-26th Amendment days. Graduated with a BS degree in 1971, got a job where I needed to keep my hair cut and wear polyester. I was a houseparent in youth corrections. Voted for McGovern in 72 and rejoiced when Nixon got his rear in a crack. Still don't think Ford shoulda ever been President because Agnew was off to the courthouse and McGovern got the second highest number of votes. Ford stuck his foot in the door and allowed the snake, Nixon to escape without consequences. Ford shoulda been tried for obstruction of justice. Nixon dropped the national speed limit to 55, allegedly to save gas. This was just as I was completing a truck-driving course for a trade that paid by the mile. My future income was sawed off by 22% right there. Man, was I pissed off. Eventually I found myself working in construction. But wages in Houston were lousy because the unions had no power and there were so many undocumented immigrants that it depressed everyone's pay. After a few years I moved to California, where I joined a union and started making some good money in the carpentry trade. But seeing Union politics from the inside wasn't a pretty picture. The old guard were elitists, without much sympathy for the working guy. They just used us to line their own pockets. The union guys I really liked were actually underground Commies. Meanwhile the US had gotten involved in the bloodletting in Central America. I hated Reagan from the first time I ever saw him speak. Still stuck to being a Democrat, because what else was there? I remember marching with my Commie buddies through downtown LA: "CIA! Out of Nicaragua!" I had also started going to an evangelical church that had an outreach to the Salvadoran refugees. I heard their stories firsthand, and realized that the US was in the grip of something powerful that I didn't understand. I rejoiced again when the Iran-contra affair began to unravel. I still remember the story of Eugene Hasenfus hitting the news. But then the congressional committees whitewashed the whole thing. A few flunkies got their hands slapped, but Ollie North got away with treason in uniform. Couldn't get it through my head that the Democrats and Republicans weren't really opposed to each other. When I moved to Hawaii in 87, I began to realize that the Democratic Establishment here is the same as the entrenched Republicans in the mainland. Still, I supported WJ Clinton's candidacy and celebrated his election in 92 with a bottle of wine. He let me down in the first thirty days, with his gays in the military policy. Then he showed where he was really coming from by signing NAFTA and GATT. A stealth Republican. Finally I looked into the Green Party in Hawaii. Our county council had just had their first Green member elected. I was hopeful it was the beginning of something that could bring real change, and served on the five-member board for the County Party for a couple of years. But there was too much socialist rhetoric and personal wrangling, and I eventually dropped out, disillusioned. Supported Nader in 96 and 2000. The Florida recount and the Supremes decision made it clear to me that tyranny was afoot. September 11, 2001 was a shock. For about six months, I didn't know what to make of it. I wrote to Bush urging restraint, but he started bombing the poor Afghans anyhow. I began to read all I could, trying to understand. Read Taliban, by Ahmed Rashid, and started to get the idea it was about oil. When I saw Alex Jones video, 9/11, the Road to Tyranny, and read some underground stuff about Project Bojinka, I knew we had been had as a nation. My descent into conpiracy research led deeper and deeper. Well, you folks don't want to hear about that, but in the 2004 election cycle, I supported the Constitution Party's candidate, Michael Peroutka. I don't agree with everything that party stands for, but it is slightly closer to my own Christian, constitutionalist views than the Libertarian Party's. But I could easily be a Libertarian, too. My brother and my sister are. Maybe the biggest shock I ever had in my investigations was the discovery that the US has been ruled under a Declared State of Emergency since 1933. Still can't get many people to look at it. Most folks think this Republic can't die. I think it's probably in a state of rigor mortis already. Somehow I am able to keep hope alive in my soul. I think that there is a good-heartedness, a generosity of spirit that may somehow keep the USA from slipping over the edge into full-fledged tyranny. I am hangin' in there. Hope I am not wrong. "Arms in the hands of the citizens may be used at individual discretion for the defense of the country, the overthrow of tyranny or private self-defense." -- John Adams Last edited by PatrickHenry; Jul 4, 2005 at 04:22 am.

Aug 27, 2005, 04:18 am	#15 (permalink) (top)
GodBlessAmerica Look Stuff Up Posts: 810	[quote=Doug]Have you 'changed sides' politically? My question for you is: what, in your opinion, made you change? I was a Democrat as were most of the immediate family, but we all switched to Republican conservatives. We felt the party simply left us and went completely to the left. We also had first hand knowledge of union corruption with connections to the mafia and were also disgusted by them and their input into national politics for the Democrat and Communist parties.

Aug 27, 2005, 11:32 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Savant The Electric Messiah Location: California Posts: 145	doodeedooodoo doodeedoodoo (how do you spell the themesong to the twilight zone?) Economic Left/Right: -3.75 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.72 Never trust anything that can think for itself if you can't see where it keeps its brain. J. K. Rowling

Aug 27, 2005, 12:58 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
belverron Beloved Truth-Dragon Location: Texas Posts: 1,299	I called myself liberal until I realized that being anti-Republican isn't the same thing. Now I don't know what I believe. If only I could saith, so should I.

Aug 27, 2005, 03:52 pm	#19 (permalink) (top)
Mark A Shrider Sedimentary Rock Posts: 17	"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism, but under the name Liberalism they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program until America will one day be a Socialist nation without knowing how it happened." -Norman Thomas, 6-time presidential candidate of the Socialist Party who retired from politics when Democrat Franklin Roosevelt ran on the same platform and won. ---There is a quote that goes something like this: "If you are not liberal when you are 20 you have no heart; if you're not conservative by the time you are 30 you have no brains."--- From that quote I have adapted my own: "I was liberal, but then I grew up." These quotes pretty much explain why I have changed my political leaning. Although, I still can't bring myself to join a political party.

Aug 30, 2005, 05:05 am	#20 (permalink) (top)
Clarence pregnant with truth Posts: 2,182	Mark A Shrider could be my dad. I call myself open minded. Everybody is pickin sides right now. Like there's gonna be a big stuggle or something. Nothing represents me. Every point of view is dominated by the extreme end of that opinion. Unreasonable, irrational people like myself are running the world. I like this thread, though. I like what you're doing here.