recruiting at public high schools

[gr8fuldaniel]

If school funding is stopped, does that mean nobody has to pay taxes any more?

[tusaki]

I don't think comparisons to Hitler’s Germany are valid. The entire context is different. As others noted, the military can have a positive influence on certain peoples lives. I do however, consider high school too "soon". I am afraid people will make the decision to join the army for the wrong reasons, such as rebelling against their parents and "the system", anxiety with their place in this world, hatred for school work and uncertainty of what to "be" later.

[The Analog Kid]

War should be a very last resort.

Finally. Something sensible from you.

Never pre-emptive.

Oh really? Are you sure you want to stand by that statement?

Never for Empire building.

Who is empire building? What nations currently comprise our empire?

Military should never be employed against innocent civilians.

Where is this occurring?

Congress should never be the lapdog of the other branches.

Great. When and where did this occur?

The military should not fight an undeclared war.

So I am to assume you've been opposed to every military action taken since Korea?

The military should not be used for profiteering and ethnic cleansing.

Ethnic cleansing? Where is this occurring?

The Military is not a division of Haliburton or Texaco.

What is the evidence that suggests that it is?

How much influence do you think the military should have in our schools? Like this?

The military should be able to recruit especially when the school in question is receiving federal money.

Im invoking Goodwins law. Every argument you make comes back to Nazi.
You debase the victims and true horrors of what Nazi Germany was everytime you mention it.



Are you capable of making an argument without mentioning Hitler or Nazi?
All evidence thus far suggests you are not. Prove me wrong.

Anybody remember the first bombing raid in Fallujah? The Hospital. That has to be straight out of Hitlers playbook. That makes us the bad guys. I hate what my country is becoming at the hands of murderers in our white house.

Once again, the Hitler thing. Man, you've just got to get over this. It gives you absolutely no credibility. I suggest you talk to some real Holocaust survivors and get a grip of what it really was like.

You really need to turn off the Err America and stay away from DU.com.
I'd bet you do both because you have all the ridiculous trademarks of a moonbat.

As far as this "first bombing raid", show us your documentation. Prove it happened and there was malicous intent to kill innocent civlians by American forces.

If school funding is stopped, does that mean nobody has to pay taxes any more?

???

I seriously hope you are just some zit faced high school kid spouting off all your garbage. I can accept that as an excuse for your sheer ignorance and anger.

[mr.perfecto]

The sad thing, it's people like daniel the Hitlers of the world use to get into power.

[Gorgo]

The sad thing is that the people who support these criminal attacks on other countries think they're saving the world. That is exactly what Hitler and his followers thought. Adolf thought he was doing God's work too.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Gorgo The sad thing is that the people who support these criminal attacks on other countries think they're saving the world. That is exactly what Hitler and his followers thought. Adolf thought he was doing God's work too.

There is the old story about the German WWII prisoner guard who wore the Wermacht buckle proclaiming "Gott Mit Uns". A US POW reported replied, "Big deal, man. We got mittens too."

Whenever I hear the politicans talking about righteousness or God's will, you'll find me muttering, "Big deal, asshole. We got mittens too."

[Gorgo]

Quote by: The Analog Kid I seriously hope you are just some zit faced high school kid spouting off all your garbage. I can accept that as an excuse for your sheer ignorance and anger.

Yes, people that disagree with you are all in diapers. Glad we established that.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: The Analog Kid Finally. Something sensible from you.

:rolleyes:

Oh really? Are you sure you want to stand by that statement?

Never pre-emptive? Sure. Only exception, I guess if they were camped against our borders.....When was the last time THAT happened?

Who is empire building? What nations currently comprise our empire?

You got the "OUR" part wrong. Its not OUR empire they are building. The NWO, is real and is stealing resources using nefarious means. Have you read anything about exactly how the NWO, using American banking and military and death squads, economically overthrow nations to steal their resources? Start with "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" it just came out about 2 months ago. The Empire also consists of all these countries "we" have established with puppet regimes. Saddam Hussein was one of our puppets. Hugo Chavez is not. Saddam Hussein was not cooperating, he had to go. Chavez may be next. The NWO, in a nutshell, forces 3rd world countries to sell at NWO prices. Or DIE!

Where is this occurring?

Military used against civilians? Here at home WACO, was the most obvious.
More than 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq

The Guardian: 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead, says study Sarah Boseley, health editor Friday October 29, 2004 The Guardian About 100,000 Iraqi civilians - half of them women and children - have died in Iraq since the invasion, mostly as a result of airstrikes by coalition forces, according to the first reliable study of the death toll from Iraqi and US public health experts.

I know, we didnt kill them, we liberated them :rolleyes:

Great. When and where did this occur?

Congress as lap dog? Only Congress can declare war, War is too horrible to put into the hands of one man to decide. Bush disagrees:

washingtonpost.com Bush Aides Say Iraq War Needs No Hill Vote Some See Such Support As Politically Helpful By Mike Allen and Juliet Eilperin Washington Post Staff Writers Monday, August 26, 2002; Page A01 Lawyers for President Bush have concluded he can launch an attack on Iraq without new approval from Congress, in part because they say that permission remains in force from the 1991 resolution giving Bush's father authority to wage war in the Persian Gulf, according to administration officials.

But our Dickhead in Chief, is wrong. He thinks he is a dictator and can just kill anybody anywhere, apparently.

So I am to assume you've been opposed to every military action taken since Korea?

Good question. I will have to get back to you on that one. I cant think of a good war right away.

Ethnic cleansing? Where is this occurring?

The war on Islam, most recently.

What is the evidence that suggests that it is?

That, "The Military is not a division of Haliburton or Texaco." ?? You are kidding Right? Thats the only reason left since WMDs was a lie from hell. And, "You only kill the ones you liberate" is another LIE. Why was war declared on the victims of Saddam? He wasnt killing them fast enough?
When bush made his little announcement to Iraqis, declaring war on Iraq, bush warned them not to destroy the oil wells. That was his main concern.
No-Bid contracts and the 2nd richest oil reserves in the world had EVERYTHING to do with bushs decision to attack Iraq. Its the only excuse left.

The military should be able to recruit especially when the school in question is receiving federal money.

Not if the military is not serving the best interests of the country. Keep those goons away from our kids.

Im invoking Goodwins law. Every argument you make comes back to Nazi.

You lie.

You debase the victims and true horrors of what Nazi Germany was everytime you mention it.

No, I asked a question to what extent should the the business of murder for profit be taught in our schools: "How much influence do you think the military should have in our schools?
Like this? " ......Is all I said.

Are you capable of making an argument without mentioning Hitler or Nazi? All evidence thus far suggests you are not. Prove me wrong.

See my last response....Its the only time I remember bringing up Hitler. Do a search of my 2,899 posts. You will find it extremely rare.

As far as this "first bombing raid", show us your documentation. Prove it happened and there was malicous intent to kill innocent civlians by American forces.

Last Updated: Saturday, 6 November, 2004, 13:14 GMT BBC Story US strikes raze Falluja hospital A hospital has been razed to the ground in one of the heaviest US air raids in the Iraqi city of Falluja. Witnesses said only the facade remained of the small Nazzal Emergency Hospital in the centre of the city. There are no reports on casualties. A nearby medical supplies storeroom and dozens of houses were damaged as US forces continued preparing the ground for an expected major assault. UN chief Kofi Annan has warned against an attack on the restive Sunni city.

I seriously hope you are just some zit faced high school kid spouting off all your garbage. I can accept that as an excuse for your sheer ignorance and anger.

You are new here, so I wont report you, but that is an insult. Insults and personal attacks/threats against Volconvo members are forbidden. Fair warning. I hope you will stay and debate with us, you can insult people in the news, public figures are fair game. But not fellow members. Debate degenerates fast when insults start flying. Most folks feel the need for revenge.

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Unless they get shot up for Haliburtons gain. It would be different if they were going to defend our country. Under the Bush Crime Syndicate, Its not about Defense. Its all Imperial aggression. Any kids who sign up for todays military are fools or murderers.

As usual you have misspoken. The US is not trying to establish an empire. While we did have a notion to build an empire in 1898, we have since changed. We gave back the Philippines, Okinawa, and have offered the Porto Ricans the opportunity to leave the protectorship of the US; so far they have elected to remain.

We have no aspirations to colonize Iraq or Afghanistan. What we are trying to do is to help them adopt democracy; which is means "freedom".

Just what is the part of freedom that you don't like?

Calling the Bush Administration the "Bush Crime Syndicate" is again beyond the limits of decency.

[Gorgo]

Neocolonialism is often more subtle, but not much more subtle than empire-building.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: Logjam Just what is the part of freedom that you don't like?

What does that have to do with U.S. crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Logjam Just what is the part of freedom that you don't like?

I dont like the part of freedom that bush the lesser sets the limits to. Why is the new "Freedom" about less freedom of speech? Free Speech Zones, MY ASS. Why is the new and improved freedom all about freedom to sneak and peak into our homes and library records. This new freedom is not freedom at all, we are becoming slaves.

Where in the Constitution does it say we are in charge of the freedoms of the world?
Who made us the worldwide police state?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Logjam Calling the Bush Administration the "Bush Crime Syndicate" is again beyond the limits of decency

Now that Afghanistan is back in business as top producer of world opium supply, Poppy bush can again reign supreme in his drug dealings just like the old days, trading drugs for guns. Atta boy!

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Now that Afghanistan is back in business as top producer of world opium supply, Poppy bush can again reign supreme in his drug dealings just like the old days, trading drugs for guns. Atta boy!

Your quest to make boogey men out of those Bush guys is somewhat strangely obsessive and of course, ridiculous.


George Bush, the dealer...LMAO!! Yea, that's too rich!!

[gr8fuldaniel]

So are you saying the bumper crop was not part of bush the lessers plan for Afghanistan? Is this a bush failure?

An Afghan Quandary for the U.S. By Sonni Efron The Los Angeles Times Sunday 02 January 2005 Bush administration is split over a response to a likely record opium poppy crop: push for aerial eradication or let local officials handle it?

The original story is no longer available at LA Times. Read it here, at TruthoutAnyway the whole Bush Crime syndicate drug dealings is another can of worms that will take us further off topic. Its at the heart of Skull and Bones beginnings and involves Russel Pharmacy financing and Iran Contra. I dont want to spend my afternoon on that crap (again) either.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Parents should show their kids these photos of wounded soldiers, before they talk to recruiters. (warning, 2 photos are graphic).
You dont want to withhold any facts that could help them make an irreversible decision.
Right?

[OberonDOtherseid]

I could show photos of people being mauled by machinery in factories to high school kids of average scholastic achievement to scare the living daylights out of them, hoping to force them into college. But what if college isn't an obtainable goal for them? The point being, that not ALL soldiers die, not all factory workers die on the job. Scare monguering is a job for the right, at least that is what I have read on this forum. Why are you doing it? :(

[The Analog Kid]

Never pre-emptive? Sure. Only exception, I guess if they were camped against our borders.....When was the last time THAT happened?

So then you opposed the Spanish American War, The First Gulf War, the 1998 attack on Iraq, the Kosovo War, Dominican Republic in 1965, Grenada, and Panama in 1989.
It can be argued that both Korea and Vietnam were pre-emptive.

Not to mention liberal icon John F Kennedy employed a policy of pre-emption.

If someone like Stalin or *gasp* Hitler *gasp*were to return and began slaughtering millions of Jews, given your previous arguments you would object to taking action?
You see, some believe that we have a moral obligation to prevent such things from happening again. We have the power to stop it. The left actually used to stand for that.

You got the "OUR" part wrong. Its not OUR empire they are building. The NWO, is real and is stealing resources using nefarious means. Have you read anything about exactly how the NWO, using American banking and military and death squads, economically overthrow nations to steal their resources? Start with "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" it just came out about 2 months ago. The Empire also consists of all these countries "we" have established with puppet regimes. Saddam Hussein was one of our puppets. Hugo Chavez is not. Saddam Hussein was not cooperating, he had to go. Chavez may be next. The NWO, in a nutshell, forces 3rd world countries to sell at NWO prices. Or DIE!

The NWO is largely a boogeyman. Saddam had to go because he caused instability and was a mass murderer. Chavez is a filthy communist. The only good communist is a dead communist.

Americans are too nationalistic to allow a NWO to take the place of its soviegrnty and unique constitution.

Military used against civilians? Here at home WACO, was the most obvious.

Oh CLinton and Reno. What happened there was a disgrace but the only military involvement was the use of equipment, not soldiers.

More than 100,000 dead civilians in Iraq

1) That is a bogus number and has been long debunked.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2108887/

2) The deaths of innocent civilians caused by the US military are not intentional, targeted, killings.
You seem to have a problem with not being able to differentiate between intentional targeting of civilians and unintended conseqences.
Can you name a nation that goes to greater lengths to avoid civilian casualties in combat? We go to great lengths to avoid this, in fact even putting our troops in greater jeopardy.

I know, we didnt kill them, we liberated them

Again, your numbers are false as shown in the above link.
Is it your contention that the US military intentionally targets civilians?

Congress as lap dog? Only Congress can declare war, War is too horrible to put into the hands of one man to decide. Bush disagrees:

Can you show me the template of an official declaraton of war?
Where is it?
Where in the Constitution or in any founding document is the template?

Bush acted with Congressional approval, even Democrats approved.

But our Dickhead in Chief, is wrong. He thinks he is a dictator and can just kill anybody anywhere, apparently.

Why did Bush seek resolutions against terrorists, Iraq, and at the UN if he believes he's a dictator?
Wouldn't a dictator not bother with such informalities?

Good question. I will have to get back to you on that one. I cant think of a good war right away.

War is not good, but sometimes it is necessary.

The war on Islam, most recently.

Islam? Why are you spouting the Al Jazeera line?
Did you know that it was muslim men that attacked us on 9/11?
And did you also know it was muslim men that attacked the USS Cole?
And the Khobar Towers?

The list is long of attacks against America and American interests at the hands of muslims.
There is a irreconcilable wing of Islam that cannot be negotiated or reasoned with, don't you agree?

That, "The Military is not a division of Haliburton or Texaco." ?? You are kidding Right? Thats the only reason left since WMDs was a lie from hell.

Lie? I've still seen no credible evidence that suggests Bush lied. He stated the same thing that the previous President had and other world leaders had, and their respective intelligence agencies.
Are you calling all of them liars as well?

Again, you've suggested that the military is a division of Halliburton or Texaco.
Where is your proof?

Secondly, Bush used several justifications for war with Iraq.
Among them;
1) WMD's
2) Terror and terror ties
3) Humanitarian.
4) Violation of UN Resolutions

Various speeches predating the war all mention the above. Contrary to what Err America says, Humanitarian was part of the justification all along.

And, "You only kill the ones you liberate" is another LIE. Why was war declared on the victims of Saddam? He wasnt killing them fast enough?

So it is OK when Saddam kills people.

And again, can you cite the document which declares war on innocents?
Do you have any proof whatsoever that the US is intentionally targeting innocents or do you just like to alledge it and not be bothered to back it up?

When bush made his little announcement to Iraqis, declaring war on Iraq, bush warned them not to destroy the oil wells. That was his main concern.

If he said it, you must have the quote. Can we all see it?

No-Bid contracts and the 2nd richest oil reserves in the world had EVERYTHING to do with bushs decision to attack Iraq.

Were you aware that no bid contracts are common practice and in fact Clinton also had them with Halliburtion and other companies?

Its the only excuse left.

No it's not. Again, who is making all this money? Where has it gone?
Why are gas prices so high?

Not if the military is not serving the best interests of the country.

The problem with your argument is that YOU don't get to decide what is and is not serving in the best interests of our country.

Keep those goons away from our kids.

So now they're goons. You indeed are a military hater.

Well hey, at least you aren't one of those phoney lying liberals who says that disingenious line of "I support the troops but oppose the war".
That would be akin to me saying I support Michael Moore but oppose what he does.

You lie.

No I don't. I don't need to. I logged onto this website and read 2 threads that got my interest. In both you were using that term.

No, I asked a question to what extent should the the business of murder for profit be taught in our schools: "How much influence do you think the military should have in our schools? Like this? " ......Is all I said.

You, once again, brought up the Nazi thing. It's just so lame.
Obviously you truly believe in your heart that Bush is Hitler and conservatives are turning the country into Nazi Germany. Don't bother denying it, it's embedded all througout your posts.

See my last response....Its the only time I remember bringing up Hitler. Do a search of my 2,899 posts. You will find it extremely rare.

Im not going to bother to search all your posts.
I'll search the other thread I've posted in though.
Ah yes. Here:

4) Are we this barbaric as a civilization? Is this where evolution is taking us? Back to Ghenghis Khan and Nazi Germany. Is "w" building a bridge to B.C. ?

Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America

Same thread:

You mean like you protect "w", the most bloody man since Hitler? Compare 911 to the Reichstag fire. The people believed the propaganda and beat the drums of war. They filled the streets in support of Hitlers campaign against vaporous demons.
Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America


And yet again!!!

Worse than Hitler!!!
Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America

And you out-do yourself with another!!!

A bit confused, arent you? Its the Reich Wingnuts that are white supremecists, not me.
Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America


Oops, you did it again!

The Reich Wing wants to appeal to our more baser instincts (which are dormant, or at least should be) and rally us with hate as the scent for blood.
Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America

Extremely rare indeed. :rolleyes:

Turn off the Janeane Garafalo.

You are new here, so I wont report you, but that is an insult. Insults and personal attacks/threats against Volconvo members are forbidden. Fair warning.

Do what you need to do. If you feel a need to hide behind rules and report posts, by all means, do so. Thats not an uncommon tactic for liberals since they are pretty intolerant of differing opinion and cannot debate on facts and truth and therefore must try to dispose of their adversaries via technicalities. Just for fun, how old are you? Was I right in my earlier hopes?

I hope you will stay and debate with us, you can insult people in the news, public figures are fair game. But not fellow members. Debate degenerates fast when insults start flying. Most folks feel the need for revenge.

Im going to expose lies, idiocy, and ignorance on an equal rhetorical level in which the offender espouses. If you or anyone else takes that as an insult, I can't really help you.

[tusaki]

Have to set certain things right:

First:
Afghanistan was and is today one the worlds mayor suppliers for papaver. (opium, coke). Under the Taliban, it was actually abolished because it was seen as un-Islamic. (but so was music). The current government, the US government, as well as international bodies would like to see this production of drugs stopped. However, the current government and it's supporting US army in fact only really control the mayor cities: Kabul, Jalalabad and the region surrounding these cities. The rest of the country is dominated by warlords. These warlords would become very agitated if the government would all of a sudden come in and destroy their favorite plants. This would hamper the goal of creating a stable Afghanistan, increasing US influence in that region and searching for Bin Laden. Also, the country is very very poor, but farmers which plant the papaver plant can make a decent living (and give a share to their warlord). This is why it is so popular. There is NO evidence that Bush is actually encouraging this or is making any money.

Second:
Gr8full, some liberals, as well as some right wingers, have been using the "Hitler" card and other more subtle (*cough*) ways of referring to Germany, the third Reich, the wehrmacht and other references to Nazi Germany. Once and for all: any comparison with Nazi Germany is invalid and looks stupid. Period.

Third:
Both liberals as well as conservatives have been shown to be "intolerant" of differing opinion and debating on facts has been shown to be a stretch of everyone’s abilities. Do not think that only conservatives hold a monopoly on facts and truth. As a matter of fact, I've seen many discussions where it was the conservative who was unwilling to admit that the "truth" might not be entirely as he had hoped it was. This polarization has become a more dominant trait in the political discussions since a long time. And as the current discussion in the Netherlands about the European Constitution shows, this is unfortunately not limited to America. But politics is not rocket science, facts and truisms can be disputed and interpreted in different ways. I would like to remind all that maybe... maybe... the truth is not what you think it is. Once you accept this, you can accept that other people think differently. Not out of spite, not out of hatred, not out of stupidity, but just because they have grown to see things differently over time.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: The Analog Kid So then you opposed the Spanish

Of course. Why don't you opppose criminal behavior?