Newsweek:We were wrong, no Koran Desacration

[RickSp]

Quote by: rcne Newsweek In Arabic تصدر عن دار الوطن للصحافة والطباعة والنشر بالإتفاق مع نيوزويك انترناشيونال رئيس ... Umm, do you want to retract your statement? Assume the Waddist Clerics can and will twist anything they can to keep from losing power. The point is their desire to twist the media with an a single unmanned source cost 17 lives and hundreds wounded - for what.

And that is absolutely untrue. In a previous post I provided links to five news sources that described Koranic desecration prior to the Newsweeks story, including articles from the New York Times, the Washington Post, and the BBC. The only thing different about the Newsweek story was that they used US military sources.

And, oh by the way, Newsweek used a miltary source then had the article reviewed by other senior military personnel who did not object to the description of flushing the Koran. So they did not use a "single source". Now, of course everyone involved in the military has sudden case of amnesia. Surprise, surprise.

The truth is Newsweek got it right and the the US is now in full cover-up mode. The problems in not Newsweek. It is the continued US abuse of prisoners.

[RickSp]

Quote by: tinybear Hey, I said I do not condone desecration of the Koran, but it beats me why some Americans so outraged by this but stay silent when innocent men and women are beheaded by terrorists.

What complete crap.

You are very good with this sort of completely false and outright ridiculous comparison. If I didn't know better, I would think it was a joke, but based on your posts in general that would suggest a subtlety most atypical of your other output.

Which Americans are you referring to? Could you be more specific? Are you only converned about beheading victims or do those killed by gun shot and/or high explosives count to? Do you think that as a taxpayer who helps fund the abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere that you might have more responsibility for it than for the actions of the insurgents? Can you possibly see any sort of connection or even parallel between abuse and torture of prisoners by the US and attrocties by terrorists?

[Gorgo]

Some people wrote about some guy tearing up his own book, mistakenly or not, some people thousands of miles away commit murder, supposedly because of that book, and I'm supposed to think what about that whole thing?

[Libertarian]

Newsweek might have gotten one point wrong, but there is many other times that these accusations have been made. But the Newsweek story was the only one that was actually brought into the public spotlight. It is a major problem and it needs to be addressed.

[tinybear]

Quote by: RickSp What complete crap. You are very good with this sort of completely false and outright ridiculous comparison. If I didn't know better, I would think it was a joke, but based on your posts in general that would suggest a subtlety most atypical of your other output. Which Americans are you referring to? Could you be more specific? Are you only converned about beheading victims or do those killed by gun shot and/or high explosives count to? Do you think that as a taxpayer who helps fund the abuse at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere that you might have more responsibility for it than for the actions of the insurgents? Can you possibly see any sort of connection or even parallel between abuse and torture of prisoners by the US and attrocties by terrorists?

Both are wrong of course. But I think those beheadings are more heinous crimes than flushing the Koran down a toilet. Speaking of which, I see the American flag being desecrated almost everyday in the news. Odd that we don't see 'outraged' Americans starting riots and murdering people as a result.

[RickSp]

Quote by: tinybear Both are wrong of course. But I think those beheadings are more heinous crimes than flushing the Koran down a toilet. Speaking of which, I see the American flag being desecrated almost everyday in the news. Odd that we don't see 'outraged' Americans starting riots and murdering people as a result.

Odd that you don't understand the difference.

[Gorgo]

What's the difference?

[tinybear]

Yeah, what's the material difference?

[RickSp]

Don't you have any sense of the context of the riots? Do you really think they are responses to Newsweek editorial policies?

Bin Laden and other Islamists have long claimed that the West's Zionists and Crusaders are out to conquer and destroy Islam. And our idiot King has done everything possible to proved Bin Laden right. The US now occupies or controls most of the Middle East. The Middle East is George Bush's bitch, at least according to Ann Coulter.

At any one time the US has made prisoners of some 10,000 or so Iraqis, Afghans and anyone else who falls into their net. They are being held in camps in Iraq, Aghanistan and Gitmo and are being physically and mentally abused and tortured. Several dozen have died under torture.

What some folks think is even worse than physical torture is the degration and the open contempt for Islam shown by the US. The report of dumping Korans in the report of dumping Korans in the toilet is just the spark that set things off.

Is this comparable to burning the US flag? It might be if the US was invaded and occupied by a foreign army which was torturing hundred of thousands of US prisoners.

[Gorgo]

The difference, then, is not whether one symbol is more important than the other, but that the mistreatment of the Koran can be seen as part of an already insulting, and murderous official policy.

[tinybear]

Nah, we're only protecting ourselves against Muslim domination (please refer to my thread on "What Muslims Want").

The American flag is a symbol of what Americans have fought and died for. Burning it is an insult to all American soldiers who gave their lives to defend our country and its values. Our enemies will face the full might of the American war machine on the battlefield. But our citizens are not looney enough to start riots and kill innocent people.

[RickSp]

Quote by: tinybear Nah, we're only protecting ourselves against Muslim domination (please refer to my thread on "What Muslims Want"). The American flag is a symbol of what Americans have fought and died for. Burning it is an insult to every American soldier who gave their lives to defend our country and its values. Our enemies will face the full might of the American war machine on the battlefield. But our citizens are not looney enough to start riots and kill innocent people.

You take one hateful sermon and claim that it represents all Muslims. I'll say it again. This is either ignorant or simply bigotted. And I see that you have a flag fetish too. Hoo ha.

[Gorgo]

Quote by: tinybear But our citizens are not looney enough to start riots and kill innocent people.

The flag is a military standard and stands as a symbol of murderous, criminal attacks, such as the war against the people of Iraq, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Grenada, Panama, Nicaragua, Vietnam..... That's what military people need to start getting concerned about.

[RickSp]

Quote by: Gorgo The difference, then, is not whether one symbol is more important than the other, but that the mistreatment of the Koran can be seen as part of an already insulting, and murderous official policy.

I think that's it exactly. One might argue that the flag is a secular symbol whereas the Koran is religious. Nevertheless, anyone who thinks that the rioting is over nine words in a single Newsweek article which mentioned Koranic desecration is completely ignoring the larger context of events.

[tinybear]

Memorial Day is coming up folks. I suggest we all take some time to reflect upon what the American flag symbolizes; the selflessness of countless Americans who gave their lives so that we can enjoy ours. It beats me why some of our countyrymen view it as a fetish or as a symbol of murderous, criminal acts. The soldiers who gave their lives for us must be turning over in their graves.

[Gorgo]

This one is the easiest for me, but it relates to the rest - if you think the decades long Western crime against the people of Iraq has something to do with anything that's constructive in any way, then I understand your deep confusion.

[RickSp]

Sure, Newsweek made it all up. Yah that's it. Right.

Red Cross warned U.S. over Quran

The International Committee of the Red Cross gathered "credible" reports about U.S. personnel at the Guantanamo Bay naval base disrespecting the Quran and raised the issue with the Pentagon several times, a group spokesman said Thursday. Simon Schorno said the allegations were made by detainees to Red Cross representatives who visited the detention facility throughout 2002 and 2003.

[Livemike]

Quote by: rcne That little 5 word blip, which was without substance has cost lives.

How do you know? It certainly fits in with numerous reports of Qoran desicration.

Quote by: rcne The Islamic media picked up on it to breed outrage and to make terrorism holy.

Or maybe because it was an important story.

Quote by: rcne Now that Newsweek has rescinded the statement and admitted that they don't really have the source do you think the Islamic media will report it? Not a chance. I had heard that it was a Muslim tearing out pages of the Koran and flushing them to protest something.

He says repeating something without a source.

Quote by: rcne How's that for a religious fighter.

You Bushites have only yourselves to blame for this. Once upon a time
this would have been dismissed as non-credible by all but the worst of
anti-american nuts, nowdays let's face it everyone believes it's possible
and most believe it's probable.

[Livemike]

Quote by: RickSp Quote by: tinybear Both are wrong of course. But I think those beheadings are more heinous crimes than flushing the Koran down a toilet. Speaking of which, I see the American flag being desecrated almost everyday in the news. Odd that we don't see 'outraged' Americans starting riots and murdering people as a result. Odd that you don't understand the difference.

But don't you see, there is no difference. The Qoran is a symbol of
the Islamic faith and the flag is a symbol of the Statist faith. We
believe in one true holy nation, begotten not made, eternal and indivisible,
all powerful and all-righteous, with The President as it's prophet and
we offer our sons and daughters as a sacrifice to the holy State.

[Livemike]

Quote by: tinybear Memorial Day is coming up folks. I suggest we all take some time to reflect upon what the American flag symbolizes; the selflessness of countless Americans who gave their lives so that we can enjoy ours. It beats me why some of our countyrymen view it as a fetish or as a symbol of murderous, criminal acts. The soldiers who gave their lives for us must be turning over in their graves.

They view it that way because that's what it is. The US military is
rarely engaged in "giv[ing] their lives so that [you] can enjoy [yours].".
Mostly it takes other people's stuff by violence. The only way in which the
US was credibly threatened in the 20th century was WWII and then only
if you assume that the Nazis would have conquered Russia and Britain
and not fallen apart before they could build up for a transatlantic push.
In all the others it was engaged in sacrificing the lives of americans
for the interests of the elite.