Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America

[Logjam]

Quote by: Dieval Wait, he's innocent until proven guilty!

I'd make an exception in this guy's case. And BTW: if some of our Special Forces guys do run across Ben Laden they will not hesitate to snuff the guy.

Would you have given Hitler a trial? Or Stalin? Or Mao? Nope, not necessary, their crimes were common knowledge and adaquate to get them the ax.

[Pooeypants]

Quote by: Logjam I'd make an exception in this guy's case. And BTW: if some of our Special Forces guys do run across Ben Laden they will not hesitate to snuff the guy. Would you have given Hitler a trial? Or Stalin? Or Mao? Nope, not necessary, their crimes were common knowledge and adaquate to get them the ax.

Erm, I thought for justice to work, everyone had to get a fair trial. If a person is truly guilty then the evidence will show and the corresponding sentence is given.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I believe the prosecution bears the burden of proof. Except, of course, for lynch mobs. Lynch mobs see due process as an unnecessary evil.

nice that you mention lynch mobs...the blacks were always guilty, right? At least the purpose of the dicatation follows the inherant reasoning. :rolleyes:

[tinybear]

Quote by: Pooeypants Erm, I thought for justice to work, everyone had to get a fair trial. If a person is truly guilty then the evidence will show and the corresponding sentence is given.

You think a trial always results in justice? No, we just like to think so, that's all. But in a peaceful society, there has to be a system of due process whereby disputes are settled and punishment is meted out to people who fall foul of the law. Bin laden is a terrorist who doesn't see himself as subject to the jurisdiction of this system of ours. Well, in that case, why put him through the due process?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid nice that you mention lynch mobs...the blacks were always guilty, right?

A bit confused, arent you? Its the Reich Wingnuts that are white supremecists, not me.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel A bit confused, arent you? Its the Reich Wingnuts that are white supremecists, not me.

I am not refering to the white supremecists as a rule, but the mentality. Those who align with a mindset like that rarely see it when they are practicing it themselves.

[Cephus]

Quote by: Logjam Would you have given Hitler a trial? Or Stalin? Or Mao? Nope, not necessary, their crimes were common knowledge and adaquate to get them the ax.

Hitler would have gotten a trial, had he been alive. Saddam is getting one, or do you think you should be able to pick and choose 'justice'?

Heck, Bush's crimes are common knowledge, should we just execute him?

[tinybear]

Ahh, don't be so harsh. It's no crime being an idiot.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Cephus Hitler would have gotten a trial, had he been alive. Saddam is getting one, or do you think you should be able to pick and choose 'justice'? Heck, Bush's crimes are common knowledge, should we just execute him?

Quote by: Tinybear Ahh, don't be so harsh. It's no crime being an idiot.

Yes, we should bring Bush up on charges. If he is guilty of treason (he is), he should be executed, because that is the punishment for selling out ones countrymen.


Tinybear only wants justice to work if it alaigns with her distorted opinion of justice.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Oberon, I am not refering to the white supremecists as a rule, but the mentality. Those who align with a mindset like that rarely see it when they are practicing it themselves.

This is a strawman. Lynch mobs are hypnotized? Thats no defense.
Lynch mobs are not necessarily racist. Was Frankenstein a black man? But lynch mobs tend to create a monster of some diversity, or other. If they are different they must be killed, without fair trial, preferably. The point I was making, could have been made with a feeding frenzy like that seen on fishing boats and among many critters in the wild. We humans are just like them. From the neck down. Humans, I would hope, are somewhat more civil and have legal systems for a reason.
The Reich Wing wants to appeal to our more baser instincts (which are dormant, or at least should be) and rally us with hate as the scent for blood.
They could have made PeeWee Herman into a diabolic madman, who brought down the towers. Peewee didnt have any MidEast ties where they needed to start a war though.
If a deadman can beat John Ashcroft........

Republican senator loses to dead rival in Missouri November 8, 2000 Web posted at: 2:49 a.m. EST (0749 GMT) (CNN) -- The late Gov. Mel Carnahan collected enough votes to beat out incumbent Republican Sen. John Ashcroft for the U.S. Senate seat from Missouri.

.....in an election, Then why cant a dead Usama Bin Laden, have fought a war in Afghanistan? I did a search at WRH for Osama bin laden is dead.
Here is his funeral notice:

Translation of Funeral Article in Egyptian Paper: al-Wafd, Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633 News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral 10 days ago Islamabad - A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. In the farewell ceremony to his final rest guns were fired in the air. The official stated that it is difficult to pinpoint the burial location of bin Laden because according to the Wahhabi tradition no mark is left by the grave. He stressed that it is unlikely that the American forces would ever uncover any traces of bin Laden.

It shouldnt be too hard to get a bit of DNA from him now that Afghanistan is one of the United States of America (That is official now, isnt it?)
Need More? From Welfare State.com (which I am not familiar with, but seems to have documentation)

Israeli Intelligence: he died and all new videos are faked He had Kidney operation July 4 in Dubai, reports "La Figaro" CNN reported 2/1/02 bin Laden aged enormously Pakistan President Musharraf says he died of Kidney Failure Doctor says he is extremely ill requiring dialysis

If the USA had a case against OBL they had the opportunity to take him to court:

Thursday, 20 September, 2001, 21:05 GMT 22:05 UK US rejects Bin Laden ruling BBC <snip> The reclusive Taleban leader Mullah Mohammad Omar on Wednesday dismissed US allegations against Bin Laden as an excuse to wage war on Islam. In a statement from his base in the city of Kandahar, he said: "Islam is a true way of life and our enemies and those against our religion believe that we are their enemies. The Taleban's deputy ambassador in Islamabad also said on Thursday that Bin Laden was ready to stand trial in Kabul, or in another Muslim country. Suhail Shaheen told Reuters: "If there's evidence, he is ready for a trial. "He said 'I am not involved, I am a guest (in Afghanistan). If they have evidence, I am ready'."

But no, why should OBL have a trial, WHERE HE LIVED? Much like Rumsfeld didnt feel like being charged for war crimes in a foreign land (Germany)?
But why be rational about it, right?

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: tinybear Ahh, don't be so harsh. It's no crime being an idiot.

It is a crime when your stupidity is responsible for the deaths of almost 200,000 men, women and Children. Lots of children. There are also many who are born deformed because of our IDIOT in Chief. He owns the radiation poisoning of all future generations WORLDWIDE. The dust from depleted uranium, carries in tradewinds, globally.

DU has a half-life of 250 million years. Some may think thats a problem. Not Dumb Fuck Bush and his Pirates of the Middle East.

[Logjam]

Quote by: Pooeypants Erm, I thought for justice to work, everyone had to get a fair trial. If a person is truly guilty then the evidence will show and the corresponding sentence is given.

Yeah, I hear you. But do you REALLY think that Ben Laden needs a trial to prove his guilt? I don't. They evidence is overwhelming that Ben Laden is quilty of committing crimes against humanity.

If you want a trial, I believe, that you'd just be wasting time and money, because the outcome of the trial would be pre-ordained.

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel It is a crime when your stupidity is responsible for the deaths of almost 200,000 men, women and Children. Lots of children. There are also many who are born deformed because of our IDIOT in Chief. He owns the radiation poisoning of all future generations WORLDWIDE. The dust from depleted uranium, carries in tradewinds, globally. DU has a half-life of 250 million years. Some may think thats a problem. Not Dumb Fuck Bush and his Pirates of the Middle East.

You have no idea of what you are talking about. How sad that folks who believe as you do actually have a following.

Calling the president an "idiot in chief" is beyond contempt.

You attitude about depleted uranium is bogus. No one is harmed by the stuff. I have lived in battlefields that were covered with expended depleted uranium. It's called depleted uranium because it's DEPLETED. You are just parrotting the drivil that the Looney Left is spreading about the stuff.

I have fired thousands and thousands of depleted uranium rounds. They make a very nice hole in armor plate.

Sure the Left wants to believe that people die from the stuff, but you guys will believe anything that harms or embarrasses the US. Which is why, of course, that you are seditious.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: tinybear Ahh, don't be so harsh. It's no crime being an idiot.

And I agree, I hope your life is complete, full of opportunity and no one comes down on you for being one.

[tinybear]

I wish the same for you too Oberon. :)

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Logjam If you want a trial, I believe, that you'd just be wasting time and money, because the outcome of the trial would be pre-ordained.

I agree that it would probably be pre-ordained, just put some repugnant judges on it. As for wasting time, how about after the next murder in your town, they come and round you up and decide a trial would be a waste of time and money. You are obviously guilty, even though nobody saw you do it. In fact, you were half way around the world that day. Too bad. Cant be wasting money and time. You must be killed on sight.

Quote by: Logjam Calling the president an "idiot in chief" is beyond contempt.

His own words are beyond contempt. He is a retard, impersonating a president.
"Raise the pie higher"
"Human being and fish can coexist peacfully"
"Its clearly a budget. Its got a lot of numbers in it"
"Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take dream"
"I know its hard to put food on your family"
"They misunderestimated me"
"We will have a foreign handed foreign policy"
"Is our children learning ?"
"I am the master of low expectations"
"Theres an old saying in Tennessee I know its in Texas, probably in Tennessee-- That says, fool me once, shame on ---shame on you. Fool me --- you cant get fooled again." ........gw bush

He's a LOSER, a freak show. Worthy of no respect. Because he is not only stupid, he is immoral. Full of hate and not intellectually curious. A greedy blue blood, who is guilty of the blood of innocents. May God find him early.

[The Analog Kid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel When did we become what we hate? Transcript for May 8 Tim Russert interview So Junior wants American soldiers to behead OBL? This scenario begs a few questions, like: 1)When did "we" become "them"? 2)Is this a souvenier for the Skull and Bones, to add to the trophy room set between Geronimo and Pancho Villas' skulls? 3)Tim Russerts follow up "Where would you find the dry ice in Afghanistan" seems pretty "softball" to me. Where is the outrage? 4) Are we this barbaric as a civilization? Is this where evolution is taking us? Back to Ghenghis Khan and Nazi Germany. Is "w" building a bridge to B.C. ?

We are not "them" by evidence of our two civilizations. We create, build, and prosper, all they know how to do is kill and destroy.

Cutting off OBL's head would be too quick and painless in my opinion.
He deserves slow and painful torture. Yes, *Gasp* Torture. Can you handle it?

When did OBL have his day in court?

He's already admitted he's responsible for the 9/11 attacks. What more do you need?

Isnt it shocking that we act like terrorists?

We don't act like terrorists. We kill terrorists.

Are we members of the "Axis of Evil"?

No.

Its only good when WE do it? I thought it was how we treated others, that makes us better or more civilized.

Killing terrorists that want to kill you is a good thing, don't you think?

Do you suggest a summit or conference and want to try to reach an agreement with them?
What do you propose?

Oh, so you say we must be terrorists?

No We must kill terrorists. Do you know what a terrorist is?

Do you hate America?

Do you?

Do you want other nations to come gunning for us, the terrorists?

You have yet to demonstrate how specifically we are terrorists.
Implying that cutting the head off of OBL means that we are terrorists is a ridiculous notion.
Terrorists, by definition, target and kill innocent civilians with intent. Nowhere has our government or armed forces suggested such a thing.

OBL is not a civilian in case you weren't aware.

I thought democracy was so great that we had to force it on other nations,

Do you believe that if given a choice most people would turn away from democratic government?

but if we start chopping off heads, why would anyone think we were any different from other tyrants?

We don't intentionally target and kill innocent civilans as a means to an end.
Can you not grasp the difference?

The war on terror ended when we started a war in Iraq, which had nothing to do with terror and never attacked us.

The war on terror continues to this day. Didn't you just hear that we got the AQ #3?
Iraq has numerous ties to terrorist organizations and was becoming a gathering threat.

In fact, the much touted liberal darling Richard Clarke, proven to be a serial liar, is on record of stating in 1999 that he didn't even want U2's flying over Afghanistan because he feared that OBL would flee to guess where?....Iraq.

That doesnt make any sense because we started it and they are saying the same thing.

We didn't start anything.

We did OBL (provided he isnt dead like it was reported 3 years ago) a big favor. We attacked an oil rich mid eastern country, without provocation.

How many UN resolutions did Iraq violate?

That will boost recruitment for muslim extremists who were just looking for a cause to fight.

And drawing them into one area is better than fighting them all over the place and allowing them safe haven.

You must not value the lives of American soldiers to make them sitting ducks in a hotbed of hate.

On the contrary, most people who really support the troops sign up at various websites like www.soldiersangels.com and send them care packages.
The soldiers believe in their mission and are proud of their mission.
People like you undermine their great efforts and acheivements. Hanoi Jane would be very proud of you.

For profit of the few.

Who has profitted?

This is not about terror. Terror is but the ruse used to steal the oil.

Shucks, Im paying well over 2.25 per gallon of gas, how about you?

In reality, it's pretty clear that the opponents of the war were the ones who had the oil interests. France, Russia, Canada etc, all had high ranking govt officials or high ranking citizens who were affiliated with high ranking govt officials on Saddams payroll. Where is your outrage?

Iraq had no terrorists before we got there.

Thats hilarious.
Does the name Ramzi Yousef mean anything to you?
How about Zarquawi?
Iraq had ties to various terror organizations including AQ dating back into the 90's.

Come to think of it, There still are no terrorists there. Only acts of war.

Thats just pathetic. What do you call people that purposely drive vehciles packed with explosives into groups of Iraqi civilians and detonate them?

Unless you consider US the terrorists. We committed acts not unlike 911, on the innocent citizens of Iraq.

Your arguments are the definition of moral confusion.

No, actually I believe he is more valuable to the Corporations/Bush/NWO as a boogy-man, they need a living demon to rally the people into a lynch mob mentality. I would say OBL is good for 2 more wars, even though he is probably already dead.

Tin foil hat garbage.

Why did they turn the job over to Afghan warlords, at Tora Bora then? If he wasnt actually already dead from kidney failure, before 911 even happened.

To preserve American lives. The Afghani's knew the terrain much better than the Americans.
One can argue on whether or not this was the right thing to do but it is not evidence of anything, including tin foil hat logical fallacies.

You mean like you protect "w", the most bloody man since Hitler?

Do you know who Pol Pot was?
How about Idi Amin?
For that matter, Kim Jun Ill?
Does the name Fidel Castro mean anything to you?
What about Joseph Stalin or Leonid Breshnev?

Again, you not only display your moral confusion, you display your sheer ignorance.

Compare 911 to the Reichstag fire. The people believed the propaganda and beat the drums of war. They filled the streets in support of Hitlers campaign against vaporous demons.

And now we get the ever popular nonsensical comparisons of Bush to Hitler that liberals love to espouse.

I didnt make this up. Check the source. How do I really feel about it? This is a psyops to make us think Bush is not in league with OBL. That they really didnt want 911 to happen. When in fact it is the most profitable thing that could ever happen.

Tin foil hat nonsense.

I take that back. Bush hasnt dropped any Atom bombs, yet. Only Depleted Uranium that we are only beginning to see the horrors of.

Name one modern American President that hasn't.

IMO this is worse because it radiates American soldiers too, not just the innocent civilians we are fighting against.........er, Liberating.

So I am to assume that it is your believe that Bush is ordering the US military to intentionally target and kill innocent Iraqi civilians?

[The Analog Kid]

Worse than Hitler!!! This is the weapon that kills long after their national resources are sucked out of the sand.

Worse than Hitler?
How about Stalin? Is Bush worse than him too?

In their minds we are desecrating the Holy Land. They want us to leave. Only great egos and great wealth are keeping us there. How fucking immature is that.... on any level?

Actually, in reality, and I realize this is a difficult concept for you, they want their nation secured before we leave.
Do you watch Al Jazeera because you make a great spokesman for them.
I mean, we don't even need to check their website for information because we have you espousing it for us.

Tell me, whose side are you on here? Do you wish for American death and American humiliation and defeat on the world stage?
If not, how are you words any different from someone that does indeed want that end?

How many more lives per gallon, will it take for us to do the right thing?

Oh please tell us, what is the "right thing"? Pick up and leave now and leave a vaccuum so that Zarquawi and his fellow terrorists can take over?

Think about it. If ultimately we will have to leave to stabilize the area. How much longer will we delay the inevitable?

We leave when the Iraqi government can stablize their own nation. That does not require much thought.

Sounds like something Archie Bunker would say. Do you want to make this a crusade? Do you want to live in a theocracy?

And now the cries of "theocracy"

So "Christian" agression is OK?

I know enough about it to know its about killing in gods name. Who cares what flavor of God?[/quote]

Who said we are killing in God's name?

Does it make it right to kill in Jesus' name? Bullshit!

Who said we are killing in Jesus name?

Pale Rider is correct. Go read some history.

So by this rationale are we to rape the rapists? Jesus came to fulfill the law. This is Jesus' treatment :

I love it when people ignorant of the bible start picking out quotes to promote their agenda.
Why don't you go to a church and talk to someone who can explain the bible to you.

So, do you see how the "moral highgrounders" dismiss the words of Christ when they are detrimental to their cause? By this philosophy, war would never be justified.

That is not true.

By the way, the crusades were not "Christian", they were Catholic. Big Difference.

Catholic IS a denomination of Christianity.
No difference.
Why were the crusades fought? (this oughta bee entertaining)

I cant understand why you guys on the wrong, are so gullible. OBL is only a boogey man. Do you think it should be legal to kill all alleged perps? Using nothing more than heresay as rationale for murder. Just bypass the judicial system completely, all the time? Or just when a politician declares somebody an enemy. After all, if a politician said it and you get to kill, it must be good solid evidence.

Who are you suggesting is innocent in this affair?

I believe the prosecution bears the burden of proof. Except, of course, for lynch mobs. Lynch mobs see due process as an unnecessary evil.

Actually, you made the claim OBL is a boogey man. The burden lies upon you to prove it.
We'll be waiting.

This is a strawman. Lynch mobs are hypnotized? Thats no defense. Lynch mobs are not necessarily racist. Was Frankenstein a black man? But lynch mobs tend to create a monster of some diversity, or other. If they are different they must be killed, without fair trial, preferably. The point I was making, could have been made with a feeding frenzy like that seen on fishing boats and among many critters in the wild. We humans are just like them. From the neck down. Humans, I would hope, are somewhat more civil and have legal systems for a reason. The Reich Wing wants to appeal to our more baser instincts (which are dormant, or at least should be) and rally us with hate as the scent for blood. They could have made PeeWee Herman into a diabolic madman, who brought down the towers. Peewee didnt have any MidEast ties where they needed to start a war though. If a deadman can beat John Ashcroft........

Wow. Reich Wing? Are you suggesting people on the right are Nazi's?

in an election,

Ashcroft stopped campaigning after the death of Carnahan and despite massive evidence of voter fraud and illegal court rulings, did not contest.

Then why cant a dead Usama Bin Laden, have fought a war in Afghanistan? I did a search at WRH for Osama bin laden is dead.

I am willing to entertain the thought that OBL is dead, in fact I believed that for some time, but as more and more information has come forward it indeed appears as though he is still alive.

It shouldnt be too hard to get a bit of DNA from him now that Afghanistan is one of the United States of America (That is official now, isnt it?)

To what advantage does it serve Bush or anyone to claim he's still alive?
Killing him will not end the war against radical Islamic terrorism and would be a great ratings booster for Bush.

If the USA had a case against OBL they had the opportunity to take him to court:

Oh come on. You are citing an old article and since that time OBL has admitted he was behind the attacks.

Why are you so willing to give OBL the benefit of the doubt that you will not give the President or even fellow Americans of the opposite political persuasion?

But no, why should OBL have a trial, WHERE HE LIVED? Much like Rumsfeld didnt feel like being charged for war crimes in a foreign land (Germany)? But why be rational about it, right?

You are anything but rational.
You believe that Bush is Hitler.
You believe that the US military is equivilant to terrorists.

It is a crime when your stupidity is responsible for the deaths of almost 200,000 men, women and Children. Lots of children. There are also many who are born deformed because of our IDIOT in Chief. He owns the radiation poisoning of all future generations WORLDWIDE. The dust from depleted uranium, carries in tradewinds, globally. DU has a half-life of 250 million years. Some may think thats a problem. Not Dumb Fuck Bush and his Pirates of the Middle East.

Should all US Presidents who have ordered military actions and used weaponry containing DU be held accountable for having DU in our weaponry?
What do you believe the punishment should be?

I agree that it would probably be pre-ordained, just put some repugnant judges on it. As for wasting time, how about after the next murder in your town, they come and round you up and decide a trial would be a waste of time and money. You are obviously guilty, even though nobody saw you do it. In fact, you were half way around the world that day. Too bad. Cant be wasting money and time. You must be killed on sight.

Are you aware that OBL has admitted his role in the 9/11 attacks?
I mean, even most liberals agree on this basic point.

His own words are beyond contempt. He is a retard, impersonating a president.

A retard? Tell us, what degrees do you hold?

He's a LOSER, a freak show. Worthy of no respect. Because he is not only stupid, he is immoral. Full of hate and not intellectually curious. A greedy blue blood, who is guilty of the blood of innocents. May God find him early.

Dude. You claim Bush is full of hate? Read your own idiotic rantings. You are the hateful one here. We're going to end up reading about you on the news if you don't get a grip.