Beheading Policy, Your President is Sick, America

[Samildanach]

Killed by a pigbomb, what a way to go.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Pale RIder The difference is, in this case, they are weaker than we are.

No, the difference in this case is......THEY HAVE A RIGHT TO BE THERE, WE DONT!

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Pale RIder I agree. IMHO, a good tactic would be to incorporate a drop of pig blood in every bullet we make

Sounds like something Archie Bunker would say.
Do you want to make this a crusade? Do you want to live in a theocracy?

[Pale RIder]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel Sounds like something Archie Bunker would say. Do you want to make this a crusade? Do you want to live in a theocracy?

The crusades were about arab aggression into traditionally Christian lands. Read a bit of history.

[gr8fuldaniel]

So "Christian" agression is OK?
I know enough about it to know its about killing in gods name. Who cares what flavor of God?

Does it make it right to kill in Jesus' name? Bullshit!

The old law:

And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. -- Exodus 21: 23-25 (KJV)

So by this rationale are we to rape the rapists?
Jesus came to fulfill the law. This is Jesus' treatment :

Matthew 5:38-42 "38 You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also; 40 and if any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well; 41 and if any one forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to him who begs from you, and do not refuse him who would borrow from you."

So, do you see how the "moral highgrounders" dismiss the words of Christ when they are detrimental to their cause?

By this philosophy, war would never be justified.

[gr8fuldaniel]

By the way, the crusades were not "Christian", they were Catholic. Big Difference.

Wikipedia The Crusades were a series of several military campaigns — usually sanctioned by the Papacy— that took place during the 11th through 13th centuries. Originally, they were Roman Catholic endeavors to re-capture the Holy Land from the Muslims, but some were directed against other Europeans, such as the Fourth Crusade against Constantinople, the Albigensian Crusade against the Cathars of southern France and the Northern Crusades. In the West, the term "crusade" has since come to refer to any kind of extended and notable mission — conducted with zealotry and fervor.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid Why is it you people only see the dark side to what happening over there? I have relatives who are going back because they feel deep inside that a lot of progress is being made. All you see on the television and in the media in general is the bad, there is a lot of good there too. Don't be swallowed up in rhetorical dogma and anti war propaganda, nothing comes without a price.

I can answer that one, and the answer is really simple, and easy to wrap your mind around.


Some of us only see the dark side because the only people getting any press in Iraq are those that cooperate with the CIA, the very people who cultivated these "terrorists" to begin with, the same group that put Saddam in power in the first place. The same people that removed the Shah, and all hope of any legitimate democratic government back in the 50's.


I suppose that makes some of us leary about listening to the "official story".

[Dieval]

Quote by: Milton Bradley the same group that put Saddam in power in the first place.

Which group would that be?

[RickSp]

Quote by: Dieval Which group would that be?

The CIA played a key role in support the Baathists who were percieved to be preferable to the Iraqi communists. Saddam was employed by the CIA as a student in Egypt. Without CIA help he may or may not have succeeded in seizing power.

In 1958, the pro-West government was overthrown by ‘Abd al-Karim Qasim. Qasim survived a Ba'athist coup that included participation of Saddam Hussein in 1959. Kuwait and other neighboring protectorates became independent of Britain beginning in 1961, and Iraq laid claims on them owing to oil resources and the need for outlets to the sea. Qasim was overthrown in 1963 by Abd al-Salam ‘Arif, apparently with the help of the CIA. Arif's government was overthrown by a Baathist coup in 1968 with the aid of the US Central Intelligence Agency, which had supposedly been encouraging the Baath and Saddam Hussein for many years. By 1979, Saddam Hussein had become Prime Minister and began consolidating a dictatorial regime.

The Iraq Crisis

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Milton Bradley I can answer that one, and the answer is really simple, and easy to wrap your mind around. Some of us only see the dark side because the only people getting any press in Iraq are those that cooperate with the CIA, the very people who cultivated these "terrorists" to begin with, the same group that put Saddam in power in the first place. The same people that removed the Shah, and all hope of any legitimate democratic government back in the 50's. I suppose that makes some of us leary about listening to the "official story".

I guess you wrap your mind around a particular news source that sees things anti american. Ho hum.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: Dieval Which group would that be?

You can spin that around 20 years from now and tell them that the UN and the Iraqi put Bush in power by default but they wouldn't accept it..yea, its horsedung, but it makes about as much sense. Why bother?

[Dieval]

Quote by: RickSp Quote by: article which had supposedly been encouraging the Baath and Saddam Hussein for many years

Well it's so obvious that the CIA put him in power...how could I have missed that... :rolleyes:

So, you think it would have been better to leave the communists in power?

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel One more thing.... When did OBL have his day in court? I must have missed it in between all the really important trials we have had lately. Do we actually have evidence that OBL was involved in 911 attacks? Or, are we just supposed to believe. Just drink the Kool-Aid and believe? Its no longer "Dead or Alive" as in "w"s hotshot speech, no they dont want him alive, he knows too much about "w".

You want to give Ben Laden a trial? That'd be nice, I suppose. But if I find the guy and I have the means to it; he's toast.

I'd cap the guy with a clear conscience and a smile on my face.

You guys on the left want to give the dude a trial? You'd probably hire Ramsey Clark to defend him. I still can't figure out the motivation of the left unless it is what it appears to be; the destruction of the US and our way of life.

[Dieval]

Quote by: Logjam You want to give Ben Laden a trial? That'd be nice, I suppose. But if I find the guy and I have the means to it; he's toast. I'd cap the guy with a clear conscience and a smile on my face. You guys on the left want to give the dude a trial? You'd probably hire Ramsey Clark to defend him. I still can't figure out the motivation of the left unless it is what it appears to be; the destruction of the US and our way of life.

Wait, he's innocent until proven guilty!

[RickSp]

Quote by: Dieval Well it's so obvious that the CIA put him in power...how could I have missed that... :rolleyes: So, you think it would have been better to leave the communists in power?

Where are the communists today? Where has their vast evil empire gone? Slain by Western consumerism, not tanks.

And in the mean time, the so called Real Politik is arrogant stupidity writ large. We opposed the Baathists against Qasim and got Saddam. We overthrew Mossadegh to put in the Shah only to get Khomeni. We supported Saddam against Khomeni and ended up with the first Gulf war. We help Samoza assassinate Sandino and two generations later we are faced by Sandinistas.

Installing dictators for percieved short term stategic gains is morally wrong and incredibly stupid. It doesnt work. We put snakes in power and they turn around and bite us. Look at our good buddy Saddam.

FDR is famous for commenting on Samoza the "he's a son of a bitch but he's our son of a bitch."

I think it is long past time we stopped supporting sons of bitches.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Logjam You guys on the left want to give the dude a trial? You'd probably hire Ramsey Clark to defend him. I still can't figure out the motivation of the left unless it is what it appears to be; the destruction of the US and our way of life.

I cant understand why you guys on the wrong, are so gullible.
OBL is only a boogey man. Do you think it should be legal to kill all alleged perps? Using nothing more than heresay as rationale for murder. Just bypass the judicial system completely, all the time? Or just when a politician declares somebody an enemy. After all, if a politician said it and you get to kill, it must be good solid evidence.

[OberonDOtherseid]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel I cant understand why you guys on the wrong, are so gullible. OBL is only a boogey man.

Prove it.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: Dieval Well it's so obvious that the CIA put him in power...how could I have missed that... :rolleyes: So, you think it would have been better to leave the communists in power?

Here you are assuming its up to us who is in power in another country. This is the problem. Too many fascist wanna-be dictators thinking they have the only answer.


What about their self determination? Thats what democracy really is, right? So, here we removed the legitimate government to install a CIA puppet government, and now we are not happy with the way the puppet is performing ,(or are they) an we need to mobilize the forces to go install some more democracy. They must have been a couple quarts low.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Ober Prove it.

I believe the prosecution bears the burden of proof. Except, of course, for lynch mobs. Lynch mobs see due process as an unnecessary evil.

[Milton Bradley]

Quote by: OberonDOtherseid Prove it.

He is the only alleged perp that I have ever heard of that went through the CIA school. My own government admits they trained him, allegedly to fight against the other boogey man, the Soviets.


An amazing coincedence? Well, they always are coincedences, aren't they? Those damned Coincedence Theorists, eh?