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SVMc · Apr 8, 2005, 05:27 pm

Okay, I can't say that I'm surprised that we have the liberals won the election (kind-of), I mean people think that Stephen Harper is a right wing lunatic and Jack Layton reminds too many people of a used car sales man. So the liberals have their minority.... but should they still have it?

It seems that Canada's dilemma is an ever increasing lack of choice. People fear that a conservative government would annex us to the US, while they fean an NDP government would run us so far into debt that the IMF would take over our economy.

Perhaps, that's taking it a little far...

But the question is how far will the liberals be allowed to go before we tell them NO! Can we really believe that the Paul Martin liberals are any different from Chretien? Martin was finance minister at the time.

We basically have confirmation that at least $1 million of tax payer was funneled through Groupaction from federal to provincial liberals. Is it now time for an election? Will an election produce any results that will help?

Misfit101 · Apr 8, 2005, 10:07 pm

Hey Fellow Torontonian!
Yes, the Liberals. Will their power EVER end? I guess we are stuck betweem a rock and a hard place as I think the saying goes-I am beyond exhausted at the present moment. Yeah, now that there is so much evidence out about the sponsorship scandle, it is hard to believe that anyone would want to support these idiots-the problem is as you said the alternative...ultra right Stephen Harper and his band of rednecks turing this country into somthing that looks more like shall I say...Texas or Jack Layton taxing the shit out us, killing business and making Joe Lowlife-Welfare Bum a happy camper. I feel like if there is another election I will throw my vote to the Green Party or something, but what the Hell will that do? The problem with this country is there are too many political parties, I think we would be much better off to just have two like the U.S. Or atleast get the conservatives back minus the redneck reformers! The liberals do dick all for this country...but then do we want a bunch of commies or facisits running the country, or worse serparatists? :eek: The outlook is not good.
Misfit
P.S. If anything here sounded wierd or I made a number of spelling errors, please forgive me, as I am extremely tired.

Nono · Apr 9, 2005, 10:01 am

Quote:

Quote by: Misfit101

Jack Layton taxing the shit out us, killing business and making Joe Lowlife-Welfare Bum a happy camper.

Jeez, that sounds like a pretty tired, clapped out, scaremongering stereotype of the NDP. Classic Tory/Liberal stuff.

Quote:

The problem with this country is there are too many political parties, I think we would be much better off to just have two like the U.S.

Why too many political parties? That suits Canada's diversity.
The problem with having two political parties is that you really end up with only one, as in the US.

Quote:

Quote by: Monty Python

I think the majority of right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that they're sick and tired. I'm certainly not, and I'm sick and tired of being told that I am.

Misfit101 · Apr 10, 2005, 12:44 am

Look at the NDP's past, that's where the stereotype comes in. I agree that Canada is diverse, but I find in our diversity, and by having so many regionalist parties, nothing is getting done. Maybe decentralization would be better. I dunno. I just don't see much hope for this country right now. :eek:

Nono · Apr 10, 2005, 07:51 am

When the NDP (then called the CCF) was launched out on the Prairies, it was pretty left-wing. But it seems to me that when elected it has always moved cautiously to the centre (especially in Ontario eh?). In the unlikely event that it were ever elected federally, Canada's right-wing media would hound it straight to the centre, and then some.

Yes, Canada is naturally centrifugal and everybody disagrees about everything except hating Ontario, and especially Ottawa. But this disagreement naturally means that they can't agree, either, on how a looser confederation could be achieved.

Then there's Quebec ... :)

SVMc · Apr 10, 2005, 12:09 pm

Quote:

Quote by: Misfit101

The problem with this country is there are too many political parties, I think we would be much better off to just have two like the U.S.

Err, gotta disagree with that one. I'm fairly convinced that we have one party masquerading as three. I mean look at McGuinty he did the old trick perfectly campaign like the NDP and govern like the Tories, that's what we always get. None of our parties are even remotely outside of centre. That of course doesn't mean that I'm campaigning for a rise of faschist or communist parties but we're hardly suffering from political diversity.

Systemically I think the best thing we could do would be to move to a more PR system I like the MMP systems used in Germany and New Zealand. That may help a little, at least all the votes would count in that case.

SVMc · Apr 11, 2005, 03:17 pm

It came out today that the polls now show the conservatives with around 32% Libs at 25% and NDP at about 20% (of course the polls are very reliable :rolleyes: )

Is this too much of a golden opportunity for the opposition to pass up, do you think we'll be going to the polls again in the spring?

Nono · Apr 12, 2005, 01:58 pm

As I understand it, any one of the parties currently holding things together could more or less instantly precipitate an election at this point.

Given the lessons of history (1974 for example) wouldn't it be folly for the NDP to bring down the government? They'd surely get wiped out, as usual, in the ensuing conflagration.
The polls, which are nationwide, don't mean much when you're a marginal party that has to be elected riding by riding.

So in whose interest would it be to provoke an election now?

SVMc · Apr 12, 2005, 05:27 pm

Well not the electorates at any rate.

I think the party that would have the most to gain would be the Conservatives.

Yes, in a first-past-the-post system any marginal parties will get squashed in the deluge of mud slinging that will ineveitably happen if a government is called out on a vote of non-confidence.

Zeebadee · Apr 12, 2005, 09:52 pm

Does anything that happens in Canada really influence any other part of the world? If Canada just disappeared, how long would it be before anyone noticed?

Nono · Apr 13, 2005, 05:36 am

Well that sort of asshole remark is one of the reasons it's nice to have a Canada -- an alternative North America not obsessed with power, not fervently looking for new ways to throw its weight around.

Quote:

Quote by: J. Christ

The meek shall inherit the earth.

Zeebadee · Apr 13, 2005, 12:53 pm

Canada is much too busy screwing it's own citizens to worry about throwing it's "weight" around. Socialized medicine, universal gun registration, special rights for certain groups, limiting free speech, taxpayer supplied handouts to immigrants, etc. And besides, how much weight can you throw around when your military consists of a few planes, a couple of trucks, and an inflatable boat?

Nono · Apr 13, 2005, 02:43 pm

And Canadians are a gang of helpless dope-suckers. Forgot that one, Zeeb.

Misfit101 · Apr 21, 2005, 09:28 pm

Canada is often a leader in social and poltical change...not stuck in the dark ages like many countries that shall remain nameless. If you know nothing REAL about the country, why put in some half-assed opinion on it you read in some right-wing newspaper article.

Misfit101 · Apr 21, 2005, 09:29 pm

What did you guys think of Martin's Speech?

Nono · Apr 22, 2005, 10:31 am

Dunno. What did he say?

rcne · Apr 22, 2005, 12:49 pm

The Liberals are going to take a beating. Martin is buying time until the judges report comes out. That gives him time, 30 days after the report, to have another election.

I really don't think the Liberals represent the majority of Canadians. But thats just an outsiders view.

I used to like Martin, I couldn't believe he was successful at staying in office after the scandal broke. Now, it seems those Liberal times are coming to an end.

Nono · Apr 22, 2005, 01:05 pm

I'm not so sure. A few years ago the Liberals didn't have a single seat west of Winnipeg. And then there's Quebec, of huge significance in any election (75 seats). When they want to rebel they vote Bloc. Not a single other party has a single seat from that province.

And anyway, what are the Liberals these days but Tories without the goosestep? :)

rcne · Apr 28, 2005, 09:38 am

So, it looks like the Liberal government in Canada is teetering on the verge of another election. That and Quebecers once again calling for sovereignty this should be interesting.

Paul Martins 30 day delay after the sponsorship scandal report is announced only buys time to prepare for another election.

This time though, I think Quebec has a real chance of tipping the scales and succeeding from the other Providences.

The conservatives I think will take the majority in a redrawn map of Canada. Quebec will finally find out what seventy means.

And the remainder of Canada will be better off as a nation without them. Good luck in sorting all this out nation of Canukistan.

Nono · Apr 28, 2005, 10:42 am

Quote:

Quote by: rcne

This time though, I think Quebec has a real chance of tipping the scales and succeeding from the other Providences.

If they "succeeded" they'd need a little push from Providence.

What makes you think they want to? I don't believe they know themselves whether they want to. They've been sitting on the fence for four decades now and show no inclination to come down. I don't think they wish to really find out what "seventy" means, or even eighty. :)

Anyway, if they go Canada will be Pakistanized – the Maritimes will be Canada's Alaska.

Quote:

And the remainder of Canada will be better off as a nation without them.

I beg to differ.

Apr 8, 2005, 05:27 pm	#1 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	Gomery Inquiry / Sponsorship Scandal Okay, I can't say that I'm surprised that we have the liberals won the election (kind-of), I mean people think that Stephen Harper is a right wing lunatic and Jack Layton reminds too many people of a used car sales man. So the liberals have their minority.... but should they still have it? It seems that Canada's dilemma is an ever increasing lack of choice. People fear that a conservative government would annex us to the US, while they fean an NDP government would run us so far into debt that the IMF would take over our economy. Perhaps, that's taking it a little far... But the question is how far will the liberals be allowed to go before we tell them NO! Can we really believe that the Paul Martin liberals are any different from Chretien? Martin was finance minister at the time. We basically have confirmation that at least $1 million of tax payer was funneled through Groupaction from federal to provincial liberals. Is it now time for an election? Will an election produce any results that will help? Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 10, 2005, 07:51 am	#5 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	When the NDP (then called the CCF) was launched out on the Prairies, it was pretty left-wing. But it seems to me that when elected it has always moved cautiously to the centre (especially in Ontario eh?). In the unlikely event that it were ever elected federally, Canada's right-wing media would hound it straight to the centre, and then some. Yes, Canada is naturally centrifugal and everybody disagrees about everything except hating Ontario, and especially Ottawa. But this disagreement naturally means that they can't agree, either, on how a looser confederation could be achieved. Then there's Quebec ... :) "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Apr 11, 2005, 03:17 pm	#7 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	It came out today that the polls now show the conservatives with around 32% Libs at 25% and NDP at about 20% (of course the polls are very reliable :rolleyes: ) Is this too much of a golden opportunity for the opposition to pass up, do you think we'll be going to the polls again in the spring? Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 12, 2005, 01:58 pm	#8 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	As I understand it, any one of the parties currently holding things together could more or less instantly precipitate an election at this point. Given the lessons of history (1974 for example) wouldn't it be folly for the NDP to bring down the government? They'd surely get wiped out, as usual, in the ensuing conflagration. The polls, which are nationwide, don't mean much when you're a marginal party that has to be elected riding by riding. So in whose interest would it be to provoke an election now? "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Apr 12, 2005, 05:27 pm	#9 (permalink) (top)
SVMc Lazy Sniper Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 513	Well not the electorates at any rate. I think the party that would have the most to gain would be the Conservatives. Yes, in a first-past-the-post system any marginal parties will get squashed in the deluge of mud slinging that will ineveitably happen if a government is called out on a vote of non-confidence. Capitalism is: Man exploiting man. Socialism is the other way around.

Apr 8, 2005, 10:07 pm	#2 (permalink) (top)
Misfit101 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 14	Hey Fellow Torontonian! Yes, the Liberals. Will their power EVER end? I guess we are stuck betweem a rock and a hard place as I think the saying goes-I am beyond exhausted at the present moment. Yeah, now that there is so much evidence out about the sponsorship scandle, it is hard to believe that anyone would want to support these idiots-the problem is as you said the alternative...ultra right Stephen Harper and his band of rednecks turing this country into somthing that looks more like shall I say...Texas or Jack Layton taxing the shit out us, killing business and making Joe Lowlife-Welfare Bum a happy camper. I feel like if there is another election I will throw my vote to the Green Party or something, but what the Hell will that do? The problem with this country is there are too many political parties, I think we would be much better off to just have two like the U.S. Or atleast get the conservatives back minus the redneck reformers! The liberals do dick all for this country...but then do we want a bunch of commies or facisits running the country, or worse serparatists? :eek: The outlook is not good. Misfit P.S. If anything here sounded wierd or I made a number of spelling errors, please forgive me, as I am extremely tired.

Apr 10, 2005, 12:44 am	#4 (permalink) (top)
Misfit101 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 14	Look at the NDP's past, that's where the stereotype comes in. I agree that Canada is diverse, but I find in our diversity, and by having so many regionalist parties, nothing is getting done. Maybe decentralization would be better. I dunno. I just don't see much hope for this country right now. :eek:

Apr 12, 2005, 09:52 pm	#10 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,836	Does anything that happens in Canada really influence any other part of the world? If Canada just disappeared, how long would it be before anyone noticed? "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Apr 13, 2005, 12:53 pm	#12 (permalink) (top)
Zeebadee Volcanic Erupter Posts: 3,836	Canada is much too busy screwing it's own citizens to worry about throwing it's "weight" around. Socialized medicine, universal gun registration, special rights for certain groups, limiting free speech, taxpayer supplied handouts to immigrants, etc. And besides, how much weight can you throw around when your military consists of a few planes, a couple of trucks, and an inflatable boat? "Everybody knows that the boat is leaking Everybody knows that the captain lied." - Leonard Cohen

Apr 13, 2005, 02:43 pm	#13 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	And Canadians are a gang of helpless dope-suckers. Forgot that one, Zeeb. "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Apr 21, 2005, 09:28 pm	#14 (permalink) (top)
Misfit101 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 14	Canada is often a leader in social and poltical change...not stuck in the dark ages like many countries that shall remain nameless. If you know nothing REAL about the country, why put in some half-assed opinion on it you read in some right-wing newspaper article.

Apr 21, 2005, 09:29 pm	#15 (permalink) (top)
Misfit101 Sedimentary Rock Posts: 14	What did you guys think of Martin's Speech?

Apr 22, 2005, 10:31 am	#16 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	Dunno. What did he say? "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Apr 22, 2005, 12:49 pm	#17 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	The Liberals are going to take a beating. Martin is buying time until the judges report comes out. That gives him time, 30 days after the report, to have another election. I really don't think the Liberals represent the majority of Canadians. But thats just an outsiders view. I used to like Martin, I couldn't believe he was successful at staying in office after the scandal broke. Now, it seems those Liberal times are coming to an end. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)

Apr 22, 2005, 01:05 pm	#18 (permalink) (top)
Nono Throbbing Member Location: Old Europe Posts: 7,444	I'm not so sure. A few years ago the Liberals didn't have a single seat west of Winnipeg. And then there's Quebec, of huge significance in any election (75 seats). When they want to rebel they vote Bloc. Not a single other party has a single seat from that province. And anyway, what are the Liberals these days but Tories without the goosestep? :) "I wish I was as cocksure of anything as Tom Macaulay is of everything." -- Viscount Melbourne

Apr 28, 2005, 09:38 am	#19 (permalink) (top)
rcne Moderator/nobody Posts: 1,566	So, it looks like the Liberal government in Canada is teetering on the verge of another election. That and Quebecers once again calling for sovereignty this should be interesting. Paul Martins 30 day delay after the sponsorship scandal report is announced only buys time to prepare for another election. This time though, I think Quebec has a real chance of tipping the scales and succeeding from the other Providences. The conservatives I think will take the majority in a redrawn map of Canada. Quebec will finally find out what seventy means. And the remainder of Canada will be better off as a nation without them. Good luck in sorting all this out nation of Canukistan. Live Long and Prosper (Genetics and Capitalism)