Trophy Hunting Advocate Named Director of US Fish and Wildlife

[gr8fuldaniel]

From the "Pigs at the Trough" files.
Do these asshats have balls or what?

Go to Original Go to Truthout Story Trophy Hunting Advocate Named Acting Director of US Fish and Wildlife Service Humane Society of the United States YubaNet.com Friday 25 March 2005 The HSUS expressed its strong disappointment that Interior Secretary Gale Norton has named Matthew J. Hogan to be acting director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Norton announced the appointment yesterday, following last week's resignation of Director Steve Williams. Hogan was formerly the chief lobbyist for Safari Club International (SCI), an extreme trophy hunting organization that advocates the killing of rare species around the world. "Having a Safari Club lobbyist in charge, even temporarily, of the federal agency that is supposed to protect endangered species is precisely the wrong course to pursue for any Administration," said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of The HSUS. "Someone with a true wildlife conservation ethic, not an allegiance to the trophy hunting industry, should be nominated by President Bush and confirmed by the U.S. Senate for the permanent director position as soon as possible." <snip>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - SCI members have even tried to circumvent federal laws to import their rare trophies from other countries. Prominent SCI hunter Kenneth E. Behring donated $100 million to the Smithsonian's Natural History Museum and, according to published reports, tried to get the museum's help in importing a rare Kara Tau argali sheep which he shot in Kazakhstan and had shipped to a Canadian taxidermist - one of only 100 Kara Tau argali sheep remaining in the world. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, now under Hogan's watch, is the agency charged with granting or denying such trophy import permits.

Once again the Bush Admin is looking out for the rights of those who wish to kill for fun. Whether for wartime profit or peacetime extinction of endangered species. What a Guy!

[Mr.Vicchio]

Once again the Bush administration is using brain power, not heart power, to make decisions.

Rock on, where can I sign up for a trophy hunt?

[Lou Minotti]

Bush? Brain power? Does not compute....

[gr8fuldaniel]

Last year the Bush Admin made an odd move the seems on the surface to benefit corporations and fat cats, rather than "We the People" as a whole.
I thought the president was supposed to have some kind of moral character?
Once these critters are gone, they are gone.
Shouldnt we treat the earth like it were our own father and mother?

Endangered Species Act's Protections Are Trimmed By Juliet Eilperin Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, July 4, 2004; Page A01 The Bush administration has succeeded in reshaping the Endangered Species Act in ways that have sharply limited the impact of the 30-year-old law aimed at protecting the nation's most vulnerable plants and animals, according to environmentalists and some independent analysts.

[PatrickHenry]

Well I don't worship the earth, or its animal life, Dan. But I believe we are expected to be wise stewards, and the Biblical story of Noah expresses God's intent not to have any of HIS creations hounded to extinction.

This is another example of misguided appointments and nominations by Dubya's administration. How I despise him...

[Lou Minotti]

You have a way with words, PH....

[gr8fuldaniel]

The earth and all its fractions are elements of God.

I do worship the earth. Where would we be without it?

I like the Native American treatment of all living things being sacred.

The earth is an awesome manifestation of God. Usually the only manifestation, we get.

[Mr.Vicchio]

The same Native Americans that used to burn whole forests?

[MerlinsByte]

The same Native Americans that used to burn whole forests?

I think it is we that are the savages, much more so than the native Americans that lived on this continent for 50,000+ years without pooping on their own plate and peeing in their water glass...cup...mug...whatever.

That said I feel that we citizens of the USA should eliminate most beaus the forest service the US fish and wildlife horrors, along with the money grubbing useless forest rangers and their ilk.

Flush the whole damn system and replace it with something that allows citizens to have a real say.!

I'm tired of our resources being pandered away below cost, the timber for example, while a taxpayer can't even camp on the same (now denuded by clear cutting government goons) "National forest" land....!

mb

[PatrickHenry]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel The earth and all its fractions are elements of God. I do worship the earth. Where would we be without it? I like the Native American treatment of all living things being sacred. The earth is an awesome manifestation of God. Usually the only manifestation, we get.

I disagree, Dan. God is not "everything". He is specific. The Uncreated. The earth, the universe, the Space/Time Continuum...these are artifacts, creations by the One whose existence is essential to all created things. They lead us to Him, but He is Spirit. They are material. As timeless as the artifacts appear to us, they will eventually be uncreated. He will remain.

Sort of uncomfortable debating this in the Pol Forum, Dan. Apologies to other debaters for straying off-track.

[gr8fuldaniel]

If God is omnipresent, then God inhabits every molecule and every space in between each molecule.
Lets not underestimate his existence.

Quote by: Mr.Vicchio Rock on, where can I sign up for a trophy hunt?

I dont have any problem with a trophy hunt.Only 2 provisions. a) Eat what you kill. b) That it not be endangered/protected species.

Mr Hogan was "formerly the chief lobbyist for Safari Club International (SCI)," which , as the article in my first post pointed out:

Prominent SCI hunter Kenneth E. Behring donated $100 million to the Smithsonian's Natural History Museum and, according to published reports, tried to get the museum's help in importing a rare Kara Tau argali sheep which he shot in Kazakhstan and had shipped to a Canadian taxidermist - one of only 100 Kara Tau argali sheep remaining in the world. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, now under Hogan's watch, is the agency charged with granting or denying such trophy import permits.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Even a temporary appointment to Director of US Fish and Wildlife, could allow elitist poachers a truckload of permits.

I should have made a 3rd provision:
That ALL laws be respected.

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel From the "Pigs at the Trough" files. Do these asshats have balls or what?Once again the Bush Admin is looking out for the rights of those who wish to kill for fun. Whether for wartime profit or peacetime extinction of endangered species. What a Guy!

I cannot properly describe how much I disagree with what you have posted. Because I refuse to use profanity while posting I won't, but please use your imagination and congure up the strongest epithets that you can and apply them.

Folks who are serious hunters do not hunt endangered species. Poachers do. Serious hunters often come back in empty handed. They only shoot the most perfect heads that they can.

Game is heavily regulated. When one goes on a hunt one is specifically told what one can and cannot hunt. The professional hunters have a vested interest in keeping game levels high and they go out of their way to do so.

Today, in Africa there is more huntable game than ever before. Except for those areas where poaching is rampant. Poaching often times is limited to those areas where hunting is illegal. Once the game ranges leave, the poachers take over.

The PETA folks and those who believe as you do HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN A PROFESSIONAL HUNT.

BTW: In Africa thses days camera safaris are very popular. More people are injured by animals on camera safaris than are on hunting safaris. Why, you ask? It's because camera hunters often don't understand the truely wild and potentially violent nature of many wild animals. People ride up to and almost touch lions. Not a good idea.

In summary, professional hunting hurts no one, and does not harm the numbers of game. Those who thing they are are living in a dream world.

[MerlinsByte]

disagree, Dan. God is not "everything". He is specific. The Uncreated. The earth, the universe, the Space/Time Continuum...these are artifacts, creations by the One whose existence is essential to all created things. They lead us to Him, but He is Spirit. They are material. As timeless as the artifacts appear to us, they will eventually be uncreated. He will remain. Sort of uncomfortable debating this in the Pol Forum, Dan. Apologies to other debaters for straying off-track.

__________________



I tend to agree, but playing big Ds advocate, I think "Dan" was expressing the views of his "brand"of religious beliefs? I may be wrong.....and I for one accept your enlightening trek off topic

mb

[Logjam]

Quote by: gr8fuldaniel If God is omnipresent, then God inhabits every molecule and every space in between each molecule. Lets not underestimate his existence. I dont have any problem with a trophy hunt.Only 2 provisions. a) Eat what you kill. b) That it not be endangered/protected species. Mr Hogan was "formerly the chief lobbyist for Safari Club International (SCI)," which , as the article in my first post pointed out:

Ever try to eat a lion? PU, not very good. However some of the Africans do eat it. When one shoots one you give the carcass to the guides, gun handlers, etc. I think they eat them.

They also eat the elephant, which there are plenty of. However, they are very expensive to hunt. The trophy fees are, I think, in the $50,000 range. To spendy for my taste. To hunt in Africa you not only have to have a license you also pay a fee to the government. The price is on a sliding scale; elephants and rhino being the highest.

Rhino are seldom be killed. If there is a reduction of rhinos it's because they are being taken by poachers. They sell the horns (which are really hair, not a boney mass.) Poachers are also taking gorillas; which is terrible. The only way to stop them is to open the area to professional hunters so that they can regulate the herd. I doubt very much that hunters will ever be allowed to take a gorilla. Nor do I know one who would wish to do so.

Much game that is taken is eaten. You don't go out with a bunch of meat. So from time to time you shoot a Thompson's Gazelle. The Africans who accompany the hunt and help with the hunting, tracking and skinning eat a lot of meat. You can figure eight pounds of meat per man per day.

Africa is still alive with game. There are several classes of safari. Some go after the "big three"; rhino, elephant and lion. But they are rare, and only for the very rich. Most go to hunt a kudu, zebra and gazelle and maybe a wild pig. Cape buffalo are popular game animals as well. People like to hunt them because they are so dangerous. BTW: cape buffalo in Swahili is "mbogo". Neat word. A lion, of course, is "simba". Another beautiful and descriptive word.

If one of the folks who hate safaris would achually go on one they would likely change their tune. First success is no foregone conclusion. It's also very hard work. You have to be in good shape to be successful. The bugs can be vicious. You also have to be able to shoot. Many folks cannot shoot with a whit.

Many people who go on safaris only shoot a good head. Some hunters, however; are happy to just "shoot their lion". The PH (professional hunter); who is responsible for the trip and who does this for a living will not allow any illegal activity whatsoever.

[gr8fuldaniel]

Quote by: Logjam The PETA folks and those who believe as you do HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA OF WHAT REALLY HAPPENS IN A PROFESSIONAL HUNT.

I know plenty about hunting. I have never been on safari, but at one time I went to Arizona to bag a Bighorn Sheep, thats when I found out how much they wanted for a tag. Sheesh, forget it. I have guns, and I have hunted and fished since I was a kid.
I am in agreement with many facets of PETA, but in no way to the extreme. I am against the mass slaughter of baby seals, fighting cocks and pit bull breeding. I am against KFC because after seeing the way they were treating the chickens (kicking and throwing them against a wall) Ever get a chicken with broken ribs from KFC? I sure have.
However I dont have a problem with leather goods and furs. That could change some day, but I am good with it today.

[Logjam]

I have been to many cock fights. I enjoy them. Two chickens fight to the death. Somehow it doesn't bother me in the least. After all I eat chicken constantly.

I attended cock fights when I was living in the Philippines. I was really no big deal. We sat in benches around a ring, just like a boxing ring, but smaller, but not much smaller. Men would enter the ring with roosters. The birds had helmets over their heads. The men would walk to the center of the ring holding their roosters in front of them. They would hold the rooster out to the other bird almost touching them. Then they'd remove the helmuts and jab the rooster at each other until they became enraged.

Then they'd squat down and let the roosters go. The roosters did the rest. They fight, pecking at each other and sometimes running around the ring. Sometimes a rooster would kill the other. Sometimes a rooster wound hunker down and the other rooster would peck him on the back of the neck. Two pecks was declared a victory.

There was very little blood and it was exciting to watch. I enjoyed it. It's too bad that it's not legal here. Two chickens killing one another just doesn't get my goat.

But then again, I'm not a pansy.

[Logjam]

I am against KFC because after seeing the way they were treating the chickens (kicking and throwing them against a wall) Ever get a chicken with broken ribs from KFC? I sure have.
.[/quote]

Hey, I've got a good idea. Let's put KFC out of business. Screw the tens of thousands who work there and the millions who eat the chicken.

Poor little chickens. F*@k the people.

Let's all eat sea weed.

[MerlinsByte]

by Logjam.......... Poor little chickens. F*@k the people. Let's all eat sea weed.

I detest my own blood lust, and we all have it , women and men, a genetic hangover, I suspect , from more savage times in our past when , the joy of killing , torture, and death (to others) played a necessary part in our survival of the species. This is a real area of study by the archo -genealogists (is that a real word? I dunno)

The smartest as well as the most vicious of the species of man would have an edge up to the recent past., for passing his/ her genes to the next generation.

Enter Homo Sapiens into the short robust physically powerful Neanderthals world. It seems, and so far I agree, that we, the better, tool using Homo Sapiens ,came into the physically stronger Neanderthal world about one hundred thousand years ago, and conquered them. The disappeared shortly after we the slender boned and more adaptable species invaded. (1)

Maybe being us we just clintoninzed (pun mine) em‘… assimilated them by interbreeding with them. (2)

However I have some friends that seem pure Neanderthals , how did they slip by our clever ancestors? (pun intended)

Now ,the blood lust is becoming a serious threat to personal and national security. This repulsive and obsolete trait has become an liability rather than an asset to human kind surviving another 1,0000,000 years or so.

Blood lust, I wish that I could eliminate it from my being. It sticks to my soul like dog poop to a boot sole! It just smells worse!

I don’t go to dog fights ,cock fights (where I here, on a few acres in the smokie mountains, I can hear the 100s of fighting roosters , Of my moonshine making neighbor across the Holler’ crowing their manhood, or roosters hood hearts out, some of these birds are fetching 5000 or more dollars I’m told, what a waste as KFC sells theirs for much less.

Oh well, maybe we could satisfy our torturous desires by whipping and stomping the KFC real meal deal before eating it?


NOTES


(1)… this homo sapiens vs. the Neanderthals is only a “scientific theory” and might change, but it has been around long enough and seems plausible enough to pass the merlin test of credibility…

(2)….The Neanderthals actually had a bigger brain (2300cc vs. our I think 1900-2000 cc) brain. But the study of how they used tools and the adapting of the species was deficient, I feel that this extra brain capacity was saved for the tals’ better vision and hearing…etc

mb

[Logjam]

Merlins Byte: I enjoyed your post. Nicely put.

Concerning blood lust. I doubt that you have it. Those who lust for blood LOVE killing. Hunters seldom do. While they do not hesitate to kill animals they don't achually relish it. The kill is the result of a long and successful process of the hunt. Hunters who revel in the achually killing are not respected in the game fields.

I think what you call blood lust isn't enjoying killling, but rather enjoying the gathering of meat. There is some joy in eating, after all. Or you might be considering varmint hunting as blood lust. I don't think so. Again, few men relish killing. Rather they enjoy the challenge of the hunt. Don't forget, usually, most animals get away.

When ever I kill game, even game birds I always feel a little sad. I feel sad for the quarry, but that doesn't keep me from hunting. I think that all sane, mature hunters respect and feel some saddness for the animals they kill. True blood lust is evil. I doubt very much that you are evil.

As for the conflict between the Neanderthals and Cro Magnon. We really don't know what went on. Neanderthals were much stronger. However, they could not speak. They only grunted, or maybe clicked their tongues. Maybe they used sign language. We know that they had a sense of self as they used ritual burial. They wore clothing. They used primative tools. Some believe that they were around as soon as 35,000 years ago, but most think they died out earlier than that.

Neanderthal did indeed have a larger brain. They had a more developed occipital lobe. So they may have been able to see better than we do. They also suspect that had a better memory. (I have never studied a model of a Neanderthal brain, so I'm just reporting what I've read. The Neanderthal brains that we do have are simply casts made from the inside of the cranium.)

We are indeed Cro Magnon, (Even though Cro Magnon may have had a bigger brain than the standard Homo Sapien Sapien.) who were around 130,000 years ago. So they and Neanderthal over lapped for a very long time. Did they intermarry? Probably not, (those Neanderthal chicks were really ugly you know!!!) If they came in contact they probably fought. Since Cro Magnon made better tools and could talk and therefore had a different mental process, they probably won the battle.

If Neanderthal had survived I suspect that modern man would have used them as slaves. Who knows, maybe they did in the old days?